Socialist Progressives
Related: About this forumWhy I知 Not a Liberal
Why Im Not a Liberal
7.15.14 ~ by Robin Marie Averbeck
To many liberals, injustice is a product of misunderstanding, the result of faceless processes that no one really benefits from.
I was standing in the National Mall, surrounded by nearly a quarter million people, when I realized I wasnt a liberal. I had come to Washington, along with 215,000 others, to participate in Jon Stewarts Rally to Restore Sanity, an event inspired by Glenn Becks Rally to Restore Honor. The festival reached its height as the spectators were treated to a video montage of fire-breathing pundits from all the major news networks denouncing their political opponents. The message was clear: Those who tell you there are fundamental differences between Americans that are worth getting emphatically angry about are lying to you. This divided America an America that contains people with radically different values and radically different ideas of what a just, moral society looks like does not exist. If it seems otherwise, it is simply because, as one sign at the rally put it, we fail to use our inside voices.
< snip>
Yet lost in all of these festive roastings of the Tea Party was the fact that the right-wing crazies were closer to the truth than the liberals. After all, as many a leftist columnist pointed out and celebrated, Mandela did at one point advocate the use of violence as a means to liberation, did participate in communist politics, and was, at least earlier in his career, a radical.
< snip >
Remaining undisturbed, however, is the assumption that the solution to poverty is to push as many poor people as possible into the job market to fix poor folks rather than restructure the economic institutions that place them in such a quagmire. The fact that this charade of a debate often involves yelling creates the illusion that a fundamental difference is being discussed but its merely the means that are being disputed. At the same time, identifying fundamental disagreements that do exist becomes extremely difficult when one cannot even name what is being struggled over power. For at the root of the liberal denial of conflict is the liberal denial of power. And on this falsehood, all attempts to honestly confront conflict run afoul. To say that liberals struggle with the concept of power is so familiar that it seems like a truism at this point. Indeed, even liberals themselves on their leftmost flank, at least often engage in this critique. Yet as G.E. Lessing once wrote, even those who mock their chains are not always free, and even self-conscious liberals still continually ignore or downplay power ...
Much more here: https://www.jacobinmag.com/2014/07/why-im-not-a-liberal/
Warpy
(111,268 posts)So I'm a lefty, been a lefty since I knew what it meant, trying to push the mushy middle liberals a little farther left. Sometimes it's even worked.
However, the FDR liberals were the only ones ever able to design the economy so that it worked for the most people, creating the longest sustained boom in history. Rich men hate sharing, so they couldn't wait to get a greasy B-actor into office and start dismantling it.
Jackpine Radical
(45,274 posts)No guts, no g(l)ory.
(I haven't thought of this song in years. Thanks Warpy.)
I cried when they shot Medgar Evers
Tears ran down my spine
I cried when they shot Mr. Kennedy
As though I'd lost a father of mine
But Malcolm X got what was coming
He got what he asked for this time
So love me, love me, love me, I'm a liberal
I go to civil rights rallies
And I put down the old D.A.R.
I love Harry and Sidney and Sammy
I hope every colored boy becomes a star
But don't talk about revolution
That's going a little bit too far
So love me, love me, love me, I'm a liberal
I cheered when Humphrey was chosen
My faith in the system restored
I'm glad the commies were thrown out
of the A.F.L. C.I.O. board
I love Puerto Ricans and Negros
as long as they don't move next door
So love me, love me, love me, I'm a liberal
The people of old Mississippi
Should all hang their heads in shame
I can't understand how their minds work
What's the matter don't they watch Les Crain?
But if you ask me to bus my children
I hope the cops take down your name
So love me, love me, love me, I'm a liberal
I read New republic and Nation
I've learned to take every view
You know, I've memorized Lerner and Golden
I feel like I'm almost a Jew
But when it comes to times like Korea
There's no one more red, white and blue
So love me, love me, love me, I'm a liberal
I vote for the democratic party
They want the U.N. to be strong
I go to all the Pete Seeger concerts
He sure gets me singing those songs
I'll send all the money you ask for
But don't ask me to come on along
So love me, love me, love me, I'm a liberal
Once I was young and impulsive
I wore every conceivable pin
Even went to the socialist meetings
Learned all the old union hymns
But I've grown older and wiser
And that's why I'm turning you in
So love me, love me, love me, I'm a liberal
Warpy
(111,268 posts)The song itself is fine.
I've never forgotten the song. It goes through my head every time I meet a self congratulatory liberal, although that's happening less and less as time under the boot of heavy conservatism from both parties drags on and on.
Maedhros
(10,007 posts)Jackpine Radical
(45,274 posts)smart.
Dawgs
(14,755 posts)I can listen to Rush or Hannity if I want someone to tell me what I think. Stupid.
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)Just fyi, this is a protected group, where we like to encourage a high level of dialogue. Please read our SOP.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1024881
Dawgs
(14,755 posts)I consider myself to be a socialist progressive and I found that article to be incredibly ignorant and stupid. Should I have not said anything?
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)A higher level of rebuttal is always appreciated.
Dawgs
(14,755 posts)Sometimes DU is so pathetic.
Maedhros
(10,007 posts)Omaha Steve
(99,656 posts)I missed it.
Scuba
(53,475 posts)Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)I was just posting our guidelines. I'm not sure why this is being characterized as an emotional reaction on my part.
It's an opportunity for people to know that this is a place that encourages a DUer to put their best foot forward.
The rest of DU runs on snark, but in here we've had some great conversations, and I think I speak for our subscribers that maintaining that level is one reason people post in here.
TBF
(32,063 posts)No one is forced to come into our little group and read our opinions. We are upfront about being socialists and that is not the same thing as liberal.
I find it extremely offensive that someone would ignore our SOP and blurt in with this: "I can listen to Rush or Hannity if I want someone to tell me what I think. Stupid." This is a direct insult intended to disparage what we are saying and compare us to right-wing extremists. If I were #1 host he'd be blocked from the group for that outburst. He is not a new DUer who wandered in by mistake. He is obviously intending to disrupt what we are doing in here.
TBF
(32,063 posts)game playing is not.
Scuba
(53,475 posts)The poster stated that non-liberals shouldn't be defining what liberals think, and was a bit snarky about it, but none of the snark was aimed at any member of DU.
TBF
(32,063 posts)of interest to socialists. You may not like our view of liberals (and that's a general "you" - I think the views in this group would vary as well) but that doesn't mean you get to come in here and tell us what we can and cannot talk about. The snark is unwelcome because it was used as a means to trying to shut down our conversation. The poster offered nothing of substance - only an insult to the group at large. If you can't understand why that is offensive and unwelcome I don't think anything I say is going to be more illuminating. This simply may not be the group for you.
Joe Shlabotnik
(5,604 posts)"What side are you on?" made much more sense when the struggle was clearly between fascism and communism. Today's liberals are a product of successful McCarthyite marginalization of the far left, and the success of (long forgotten) struggles of militant unionism, as well as the fortune of surviving WW2 pretty much unscathed. The result was the New Left; wrongly self-assured that wages would continue to rise, who traded in class struggle to tackle social ills, by being a part of the system. This is the misguided perception that the system ie: free market capitalism, is essentially a good system that only needs some tinkering, and that one can tinker with the machine from the inside.
A cursory glance of the last 30 years of 'reforming' capitalism should be enough to identify the enemy as capitalism itself, and that glacial paced, incremental change is superficial compared to soaring income inequality, authoritarianism, exploitation, and environmental destruction.
TBF
(32,063 posts)Of higher dialogue for those who confuse socialist thought with Sean Hannity. Thanks Joe.
Maedhros
(10,007 posts)Some problems are exacerbated, not solved, with Capitalism (Liberal or otherwise).
socialist_n_TN
(11,481 posts)The fascists will shoot you.
The conservatives will cheer them on.
The moderates will watch your execution on TV.
The liberals will cry over your grave. After turning you in to the fascists.
Or something like that.
As others have noted, the problem with liberals is that they are supporters of capitalism. And as the SDS saying says, they'll support capitalism EVEN IF THEY HAVE TO SUPPORT THE FASCISTS IN ORDER TO KEEP THE SYSTEM. When push comes to shove, liberals will pick the fascism over socialism.
ann---
(1,933 posts)alsame
(7,784 posts)Students for a Democratic Society (SDS) was a student activist movement in the United States that was one of the main representations of the New Left. The organization developed and expanded rapidly in the mid-1960s before dissolving at its last convention in 1969.
SDS has been an important influence on student organizing in the decades since its collapse. Participatory democracy, direct action, radicalism, student power, shoestring budgets, and its organizational structure are all present in varying degrees in current American student activist groups. Though various organizations have been formed in subsequent years as proposed national networks for left-wing student organizing, none has approached the scale of SDS, and most have lasted a few years at best.
A new incarnation of SDS was founded in 2006.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Students_for_a_Democratic_Society
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)I kept trying to make myself fit into liberalism and kept feeling like I'd gotten into the wrong line.
I think most of us are all aligned on the need to keep back the right-wing menace, so having liberals as allies on that task is workable and desirable.
Looking at power systems seems to be a challenge in liberalism, a point the author got across really well. (Plus the whole support for capitalism thing, which is like trying to push water uphill and wondering why it won't "go".)
Even with working for social justice, with some more centrist liberals, there seems to be a willingness to keep kicking the can down the road on things like LGBT rights, etc. There were some big fights here over that, which made me really start questioning my political stances.
I think some libs are socialists that don't know it yet too. There's a distinction to be made in the differences between liberals as individuals, and liberalism itself as a process. I haven't fully fleshed out what this is, but this piece made me think about it more. Maybe someone else has thought about it and can talk about it better than me.
TBF
(32,063 posts)ctsnowman
(1,903 posts)an extreme liberal. This whole piece falls apart in my eyes by pretending that liberals have a voice in the MSM. I thought the "rally to restore sanity" was lame because it used the both sides are to blame argument when the true left of the spectrum is never given the light of day. Chomsky and Wolff e.g. would be on meet the press in a true left versus right debate IMHO. Mostly I guess it's how you define what a "liberal" is. As far as the "tea" party (AKA rabid Republicans) being right about much of anything I haven't seen it.
Peace.
fasttense
(17,301 posts)OK, I couldn't figure out a witty way to say You're Right, You're Right, You're Absolutely Right.
We really don't have, and certainly didn't have during the rally to restore sanity, a left. We have some moderate RepubliCONS calling themselves Democrats, like Obama did. But a real liberal left rarely if ever show its face on MSM or in American politics. But everyone likes to pretend otherwise.
TBF
(32,063 posts)was in their revolutionary approach (as opposed to thinking incremental change works). Like you I can't think of a thing I have in common substantively with those folks so I assume she is talking about process there.
I showed this piece to some other Marxists who criticized it in terms of not directly going after the capitalists (folks owning the power). Which I also think is fair criticism. It is kind of beating around the bush to go on about the tea partiers when they clearly are not the ones who are really controlling things in this country.
Thanks for your comments.