GOOD NEWS: Tim Eyman's latest monstrosity, approved by the voters in November,

[pnwmom]

was just ruled unconstitutional.

http://mynorthwest.com/1087/2898045/Tim-Eyman-felt-like-Charlie-Brown-after-judge-ruled-against-initiative

King County Superior Court Judge William Downing ruled that Initiative 1366 was unconstitutional and void. The measure, approved by voters in November, would have cut the sales tax by one percent in April if the Legislature didn't allow a public vote on an amendment that would require a two-thirds supermajority for tax increases.

Eyman was "brimming with confidence." He told AM 770 KTTH's Todd Herman that he believed no judge – with a straight face – could find the initiative unconstitutional. But after Judge Downing ruled it down Eyman said he felt a little like Charlie Brown trying to kick a football.

"I had faith there was no way you could come to another conclusion," he told Herman. "And this judge came to another conclusion."

Eyman was testifying before a Senate panel considering a two-thirds constitutional amendment when he received a text from his lawyer informing him of the judge's ruling.

[Suich]

1. Eyman drives me nuts!

I'm amazed by how often he can suck voters into supporting so many idiotic bills. Haven't most of them been declared unconstitutional???

[pnwmom]

2. The fact that Washington voters approved this thing, voters in a blue state

who are fairly well educated, is part of why I have so little confidence that Bernie's plan for higher middle class taxes would go over well in a national general election.

[Turbineguy]

5. I seem to recall that the initiative

was written in a convoluted way so that you really had no idea what the outcome of your vote would be.

[pnwmom]

6. Every Tim Eyman initiative is about cutting taxes. That's why they get approved

by the voters. All they have to do is see his name associated with it and they know whether or not they'll vote for it.

[Salviati]

13. The only initiative I would have voted for that had Tim Eymans name on it...

... was the one that would have officially declared him a Horse's Ass. But that one was not allowed on the ballot.

[pnwmom]

14. Hah! I was actually wondering which one you could possibly name.

You got me.

[FuzzyRabbit]

18. Washington state is hardly blue

Rural eastern Washington is as red as any place in the country. Western Washington is mostly urban, hence mostly blue.

The senate is controlled by Republicans, the house by Democrats, but by only 2 or 3 votes each.

Because there are more city dwellers than rural dwellers, statewide offices usually are won by Democrats.

[Kalidurga]

3. Now we are getting somewhere

this is why the government has to have the power to tax people for the greater good. And why we need a health care payroll tax for the greater good. No one is going to want to pay 100 dollars a month more in taxes. Even if it saves them money they will get out of it if they could. I am noting this is in the progressive state of Washington so if they will vote against progressive issues like taxing for the greater good there then well...

[pnwmom]

4. And that is my fear. Even in our blue-ish state the voters approved this horrible law,

Why do you think the voters in the General Election would vote for a candidate who promised to raise their taxes by 8% -- no matter what benefits he was promising?

[Kalidurga]

7. Because it's more like 2%.

And he is starting with the very rich. And part of the increase is to cover things like maternity leave which I agree with even though I won't have any more kids and no grandkids. And to cover health care for all and that will cause most people to save 5,000 or more dollars a year. Ironically my old job I would be losing about 1,000 a year if I still had it. I think they will need a waiver for some people on that tax like if they don't make 15 dollars an hour. That one should only apply then and not before.

[pnwmom]

8. There would also be a 6% supposedly imposed on employers but the other side

will argue that that money will actually come from employees salaries.

[Kalidurga]

9. Well Bernie is gonna happen so I guess now is the time to get in front of the issues

we need to show people that they get what they pay for. BTW I am sick and tired of poor people subsidizing the middle class and rich via taxes for the common good, yet they have less access to those things like public parks. It's time we go the other way and let poor people benefit more from taxes and not less.

[pnwmom]

10. And how well is that argument working in blue Washington, where yet another

idiotic Tim Eyman initiative got solid approval from voters in November?

They don't believe "you get what you pay for." They believe: "government is always full of waste -- just cut that and you can always cut more taxes."

[Kalidurga]

11. I don't live in Washington State.

The extent of my knowledge of the state is thus Olympia is the capitol. The mountains are beautiful. The people vote for Democrats in the presidential race. It borders on Canada. It gets cold in the winter. One year someone asked for a recount and won an election based on that, but from what I read it sounded like some cheating went on, I forget which office. So, no I don't have any idea on how to talk sense into people in Washington. I live in Minnesota, I know how to talk sense into people here.

[eridani]

16. WA is nowhere near as cold as MN

Occasionally we get a northern blast that drops temps below freezing, but a lot of snow iw pretty unusual. You get into the habit of thinking that it belongs on mountains and not at sea level. Milder than usual this winter, with temps in the 30s and 40s.

The contested election was the governor's race, in which Repukes claimed that Dems cheated during the recount. In fact, the manual recount produced expected results, with the D, the R and the Libertarian getting a few more votes added to their totals. Expected because the most common scanner error is picking up more than one ballot occasionally. WE still don't really know who won, as the margin between the two top candidates was less than the usual error rate for hand counts. Kind of like trying to measure 1/16th of an inch when your ruler only has 1/4 inch divisions--you do the best you can and accept the result.

[FuzzyRabbit]

20. It was the 2004 governor's election.

Yes, the Repukes claimed widespread cheating by Dems.

But as far as I know, it was the most accurate vote count ever in the state's history. Every ballot was read by 3 vote counters, a Republican, a Democrat, and a county election worker. All three had to agree on every ballot. If any one of the counters disagreed, that ballot was sent to another group to be counted.

There was a small handful of illegal ballots cast, all by Republican voters. Mostly elderly, voting for a sick or dead spouse.

A mathematician wrote a long expose about another aspect of that election. Snohomish county historically votes 8% more Democratic than Republican, and exit polls showed 8% more Democratic votes in this election also. However, the precincts which used voting machines gave 10,000 more votes to the Republican than the Democrat. Many voters had complained that when they entered their vote for the Democrat, the machine changed their vote to the Republican. There was no paper trail available, so these votes could not be recounted.

The Dem candidate, Christine Gregoire, won even with 10,000 or more illegal Republican votes in Snohomish county.

[eridani]

21. Thankfully, Snohomish County got rid of those machines n/t

[Kalidurga]

24. Oh thanks I learn something new everyday

I couldn't even remember the details of who accused who of what. But, it made national news. That is funny about the snow. I didn't know that it didn't make it's way down where people actually live.

[jmowreader]

25. Let me expand your knowledge of Washington State

Have you ever heard the saying, "Pennsylvania is Pittsburgh to the west, Philadelphia to the east and Alabama in between"? That's Washington.

The heart of liberal Washington is Seattle, which is close to - but not on - the Pacific Ocean. (Seattle is where it is because the Olympic Mountains on the other side of the Sound break the winds whipping in from the ocean.) There's a very small pocket of liberalism in Pullman, where the state land grant university is, and there are a few liberals in the Spokane area.

The rest of the state is EXTREMELY hard right. Central Washington is the weirdest: Almost to a man they are anti-government. Problem is, if the government didn't run public irrigation projects that pull water out of the Columbia, Central Washington couldn't exist as a populated area.

Non-Seattle Washington has bestowed on the nation such jewels as Matt Shea, the first politician to visit Malheur during the Snack Rebellion.

[Kalidurga]

26. Sounds like Michigan to a degree

You have some very liberal cities like Ann Arbor, Jackson, Lansing, Ypsilanti, Detroit... The rest is deep red. Small towns in Michigan are a bit well terrifying. I know cuz I grew up there. I liked going to the larger cities, the rest of my family not so much.

[jmowreader]

27. I think any "blue" state is like that, with the possible exception of Hawaii

Look at California: splotches of deep blue, like Los Angeles and San Francisco, are surrounded by seas of blood red. New York state is the same way, and Massachusetts also has some REALLY conservative people in it. Hawaii may be majority liberal, but they also have some conservatives.

[Kalidurga]

28. I guess that is why I have always gravitated towards the cities...

Even though I prefer the scenery of the country.

[eridani]

17. Because anyone who prefers paying a $900/month "tax" to a

--$200/month "premium" shouldn't be running around outside without adult supervision.

[pnwmom]

19. Anyone who votes for an Eyman initiative is deluded. And a solid majority of

WA voters voted for the latest one in November.

[eridani]

22. About time for Dems to start defending public goods on as many occasions as possible

People don't like taxes, but they like public goods.

[pnwmom]

23. I used to work for a polling firm that studied voter attitudes.

Year after year, voters of both parties wanted lots of government services, but they never thought they had to pay for them. When asked where the money should come from, they almost always said, "from governmental waste."

The large majority of voters, Democratic or Republican, don't believe they should have to give up a single dollar in additional taxes to get services -- they think we can just get rid of waste and make everything more efficient. They don't understand that if we cut 10% of "fat" every year, in five years we'd have cut our budget in half and in ten years we'd have a zero dollar budget.

This is what we're up against. Profound distrust in government's ability to accomplish anything coupled with the false idea that there's tons of waste just sitting there, ready to be cut out and put to a better use. And a complete inability to do simple math.

So if most taxpayers wanted single payer, they'd STILL believe that they shouldn't have to pay an additional dime to get it, even if we promised them that it would lower their costs in the long run. They wouldn't believe it. And the Rethugs would reinforce every bit of suspicion the voters already had.

ON EDIT: remember the income tax that we never got passed, even though it would have benefited the average taxpayer and overall REDUCE their tax burden? They didn't believe it. The sheer idea of a new tax scared them to death. They didn't believe any of the financial explanations of why it would be a good idea and beneficial to them -- so they voted against it. So we're still relying on the most regressive tax system in the country.

Because it's so easy to enlighten voters.



And by the way, even the great state of Vermont couldn't pass single-payer, because the voters there didn't believe the claims that it would save them money in the long run to raise taxes in the short run. Why people think we could convince national voters to support this when it couldn't even be done in Vermont is beyond me.

[eridani]

29. Shumlin bakced off on single payer, not the voters

Let's not ever campaign on our core values because banksters don't linke them.

[Salviati]

12. Thank god...

Though I was hoping that if it wasn't, that the legislature would call his bluff, lower the sales tax and then implement a state income tax.

[eridani]

15. Not unexpected

Wondering when Dems will start going on the offensive explicitly defending public goods.