Scottish independence choice should be put to whole of UK, say peers

[dipsydoodle]

An alternative to full independence for Scotland should not be offered to Scottish voters alone, a committee of peers has said.

The "devo-max" option, which could create a different tax regime in Scotland, should be put to all UK voters because it affects the whole population, the House of Lords constitution committee said.

The peers, whose warning came following David Cameron's speech about the union in Edinburgh on Thursday, also warned that Holyrood lacked the power to call a referendum without Westminster's approval – and called for a straight yes or no question on ballot papers.

The committee chairwoman, Lady Jay, said: "Having looked at the consultation paper by both the UK and Scottish governments, and a significant amount of case law, it is clear that currently the Scottish parliament cannot unilaterally call an independence referendum.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2012/feb/17/scottish-independence-referendum-yes-or-no

[alan stewart]

1. Scottish independence

Who elected the peers?
For an alternative socialist perspective on scotland and to read the case for independence see...

http://scottishrepublicans.myfreeforum.org/

[MichaelMcGuire]

2. The house of the undead.....

No one.

[MichaelMcGuire]

3. Welcome to DU (nt)

Theres a group called "Socialist Progressives" Alan that may also be of interest to you.

[fedsron2us]

4. In the end all government comes down to capturing and harvesting tax revenues

Ultimately, the debate will come down to full independence if only because if the choice is Devo-max then it will be England that quits the UK taking its taxes with it.

[mwooldri]

5. The peers are correct and wrong at the same time.

I believe the peers are on to something when they said the issue should be put to all of UK voters.

I feel that they are right when it should be put to the whole of the UK but in the separate nations the question should be posed towards that country - i.e. the English would vote for an independent England, the Welsh for an independent Wales... I see an issue with Northern Ireland - the same question can be asked but the question of unification with the Republic of Ireland should also be posed.

But as a straight put the Scottish question to the whole of the UK to decide upon... well nope, Scottish independence is for the Scots to decide upon, has no business with the English or Welsh or the Italians for that matter (just picking on Italy....).

Such a vote might turn out interesting. This way it could be possible that the people of England vote for an independent England. This would leave Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland as the "rest of the UK".

I suppose this could be viewed as a "nuclear option" and could lead to the complete dissolution of the United Kingdom as is. However this would be a fair way of gauging the mood of the entire United Kingdom and seeing whether it is time that each country went their own way.

[SRSM1820]

6. House of Lords

It's just another attempt by the Brit's to muddy the waters. An unelected house with unelected members, and if you have a criminal record that should put you at the front. Two from Scotland spring to mind, Lord Foulkes (drunk in the street and assaulted a policeman as an MP., Lord Watson (Fire raising, set his home on fire and tried to claim the insurance) and they have the cheek to tell us what is the good for Scotland.

The Scottish people never had a say in this so called union of 1707, there was riots in towns and cities all over Scotland at the time of it's signing.

Saor Alba a Nis!

[T_i_B]

7. House of Lords reform is on the government's agenda.

However, previous attempts to reform the Lords have floundered and the right wing of the Tory party seems to be quite keen on scuppering the proposals.

To be honest the thing that riles me about the Tories scheming to stop gay marriage and Lords reform is their claim that those policies are a waste of time & energy, usually based on a woefully inaccurate analysis of why the coalition parties did badly in local elections earlier this month. They would be better off opposing policies they dislike from a more honest standpoint.

[LeftishBrit]

8. The RW Tories are going into contortions about why they lost

Who votes in LOCAL elections on the basis of Lords reform or gay marriage? - given that neither of these comes remotely under the domain of local government. Neither, of course, does EU membership, which is the one they usually bring up at such points!

On a possibly slightly related issue: much as I can't stand Boris the Prat, he occasionally says or does something vaguely sensible when he is acting specifically in his role as Mayor of London. The same can't be said when he acts in his role as wannabe future Tory Party Leader, and I think he's been doing this too much since he won and the other Tories lost in the local elections. The latest is his ranting about the BBC and how biased and left-wing and defeatist it is, and how a Tory ought to be appointed to run it. Err, Boris, a Tory is ALREADY in charge of the BBC. Chris Patten may not be the most right wing of Tories, but he is definitely a Tory!

[T_i_B]

9. The problem for the Tory right....

....is that the policies that are losing them the most votes are dismantling the NHS and the abysmal budget, both of which are very much driven by right wing ideology and the Tories naturally enough have difficulty accepting this.