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Panich52

(5,829 posts)
Sat Feb 7, 2015, 04:27 PM Feb 2015

Should We Change How the President Is Elected?

Care2 Causes
Should We Change How the President Is Elected?
Robin Marty

For most of the country, the presidential election is a straight-forward affair. Every four years, people go out and cast votes for their favored candidate, the votes are counted, and the candidate with the most votes in that state gets all of the electoral votes for the state. How many votes that means depends on how many people live in that state, and is equal to the number of representatives you have in Congress (one vote for each House member and one for each of a state’s two senators). It’s an imperfect system, no doubt, but for the most part it works, since only in four elections has the person elected president via the electoral college not won the popular vote (and only once since 1888).

Modern elections, however, are all about gumming up the system. First it was gerrymandering House districts to make it easier for Republicans to win more seats in Congress, even if more votes overall are cast for Democrats. Then it was the spate of “voter protection” laws that really made it harder for traditional Democratic voters to cast ballots, and the narrowing of early voting assistance so that less votes could be cast overall.

Now a new fight is brewing over in Nebraska, where instead of a winner take all electoral vote system, the state broke up the vote into congressional districts, saying it was more representative of the overall will of the voters. After a few cycles of this, however, they want to return to the original plan. Why? Because the congressional divide let one vote go to a Democrat.

“The state’s Republican leadership is not being shy about why they would like this bill to pass,” reports Think Progress’s Ian Millhiser. http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2015/02/02/3617907/nebraska-republicans-plan-make-easier-elect-gop-president-good/ “‘It’s obvious that the majority of citizens of the state of Nebraska are Republicans,’ state Republican Party chairman J.L. Spray told the New York Times. ‘They want to have the maximum voice in the Electoral College.’”

While Nebraska Republicans want to go back to all the state, all one candidate, not everyone thinks that is the best idea. Bryan Fischer of the American Family Association argues that instead of Nebraska (and Maine, the one other state that breaks up its electoral votes) emulating the rest of the country, the other states should all take a page out of their book and divvy their electoral college votes by district, too.

“Voters outside major population centers today are virtually disenfranchised by the current arrangement,” explains Fischer. “Voters in eastern Washington, for instance, know full well that the outcome of the electoral college vote will be determined by the vote in the major population centers of Seattle and King County. They know their vote, while it will be counted, is largely symbolic. But if EC votes are awarded by congressional district, suddenly voters in eastern Washington, whose districts lie wholly outside the state’s urban centers, have a voice and a vote that counts.”

Sure, Fischer’s way would ensure that “everyone had a voice and vote that counts,” but is it really more fair? As Fischer himself notes, the system gives the same disproportionate advantage to rural and non-urban communities as they already receive in the House, where a smaller number of actual voters are then represented by a larger number of lawmakers, in comparison to the Senate where each state is equally represented. When that disproportionate voter representation occurs and rural (and often more conservative) districts get even bigger voices, that almost always means Republicans will be receiving more power.

Fischer claims that’s not really his intent, of course. Yet as he plays with his psuedo-Congressional district electoral college, he notes that had it been in effect in 2012, Mitt Romney would now be the president, because he would have won more congressional districts than President Barack Obama. Of course, what he glosses over is that Romney over all lost the popular vote by over 2.5 million votes. In other words, in Fischer’s scenario, a presidential candidate less people voted for winning the White House would somehow better represent the will of people than the one who actually received more votes.

If Fischer and those like him really believe that all votes should count and that a politician should have to appeal to everyone, they should be advocating for an actual popular vote. But that would mean weakening the power of those rural, low population density voters who already have disproportion say in our election system. Since those are the ones keeping Republicans in power, I doubt there will be any sort of electoral college change anytime soon.

http://www.care2.com/causes/should-we-change-how-the-president-is-elected.html


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Should We Change How the President Is Elected? (Original Post) Panich52 Feb 2015 OP
I have for many years, thought clydefrand Feb 2015 #1
President elected by national popular vote. Eliminate the electors. on point Feb 2015 #2
POTUS by a national popular vote AsaGordon Feb 2015 #3
The answer is yes. Electoral college keeps us locked into a 2 party system muktiman Aug 2015 #4

clydefrand

(4,325 posts)
1. I have for many years, thought
Sat Feb 7, 2015, 05:14 PM
Feb 2015

that 1 person, 1 vote. For president, just count total votes for each candidate from all states. Most votes gets to be president. This eliminates the effect of gerrymandering,
vote rigging, what have you. Same should be true for State wide offices (Gov., Lt. Gov, etc.). It becomes nearly impossible to BUY the vote all over the country.
We should also severely limit the amount of donations that are allowed for any candidate.
That way, more HONEST people might just get elected. We might even end up with a really good democratic government!

on point

(2,506 posts)
2. President elected by national popular vote. Eliminate the electors.
Sat Feb 7, 2015, 07:31 PM
Feb 2015

Also congress need to pass new national voting rights act that applies to all 50 states and territories, for any federal or congressional office. (Not sure congress could make it apply to state offices, but done right it would be a pain for states to have a separate system).

This would apply to things like voter id laws, removing people from voting rolls, intimidation at the polls, ratio of polls to population, fraudulent calls to say that voting days / places moved (favorite puke trick) and all other tricks to have serious 10 - 20 year sentences.

This needs to apply to all states, not just the south states, because these tricks have spread and unfair not to apply them everywhere.

AsaGordon

(6 posts)
3. POTUS by a national popular vote
Mon Feb 16, 2015, 10:33 PM
Feb 2015

We already in effect have the election of POTUS by popular vote, if we adhere to the Electoral College reform embodied in the Reconstruction Amend. XIV§2. The Electoral College was fixed in 1868. Amend. XIV§2 imposes a de jure mandate that states must allocate their presidential electors in proportion to the popular vote split or suffer a proportional "reduction of representation" in the state's number of electors and representatives to Congress pursuant to 2 U.S.C.§6. Any abridgment of the franchise by a disproportionate biased allocation of electors by "winner take all" or "Congressional Districts" invokes the malapportionment penalty of Amend. XIV§2. Mathematical logic dictates that the only way to avoid a proportional penalty is to have proportional representation. The plain text of Amend. XIV§2 dictates that only a strictly proportional apportionment for all presidential electors is constitutionally acceptable. The excruciating fact is, there is a long-standing political, academic and judicial embarrassment that stifles public and professional discourse on the Electoral College. For over a century now, and still counting, the nation is ashamed to admit that section 2 of the Fourteenth Amendment is a provision of the constitution willfully ignored and ritually violated.

Neo-Redemption Gerrymandering of the Electoral College,
Suffer Loss of Representatives to Congress

http://gp.org/greenpages-blog/?p=3368

muktiman

(19 posts)
4. The answer is yes. Electoral college keeps us locked into a 2 party system
Sat Aug 1, 2015, 02:41 PM
Aug 2015

The Electoral college is an artifact from an earlier time when delegates were selected to travel over great distances to meet and vote for the person for whom they were elected to vote. We don't need it now and more to the point it keeps up locked into a 2 party system. A 3rd party candidate will always be a spoiler, making the candidate closest to them weaker.

We need to eliminate the outdated electoral college and go to direct vote: and my preference is to add "instant runoff" voting.

instant runoff voting will allow multiple views to compete without damaging the other candidates.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instant-runoff_voting

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