Tired of fighting with fellow Dems over the NSA Surveillance issue?

[stevenleser]

If you think/know the President is being unfairly criticized, you need to check out my radio show tonight. Even if you don't think he is being unfairly criticized but you want all the facts, you need to check out my radio show tonight. I do a complete coverage of the issue. I have let some folks pre-screen the show who were upset at the President over this issue and the show changed their minds completely. The facts are with the President on this.

If there is one episode of my radio show to hear, it's this one. Please listen and spread far and wide. It airs at 7pm tonight (Sunday) eastern time on blogtalkradio.com and the full archive is available anytime after 8pm in perpetuity.

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/lesersense/2013/06/09/making-sense-with-steve-leser--nsa-spying-war-on-women

It also airs on the NBC Radio affiliate KCAA 1050am in Inland Empire California Monday at 2pm Pacific Time

p.s. the war on women segment afterwards is pretty good too!

[darkangel218]

1. I dont think he's being unfairly criticized. I think people who have invested

Money and time believing in him and getting him (re)elected have the right to criticize.

[stevenleser]

2. People have the right to say anything they want about anyone at anytime. Doesn't mean they're right.

In this situation, the facts are with the President. I lay it all out during my show.

[darkangel218]

3. IMHO, the facts arent with him.

I will listen to hear what you have to say.

I could be wrong , but I doubt it.

[treestar]

8. The government should be criticized if you don't like the program

It will continue to exist past Obama's term, as he put it:

And by the way, with respect to my concerns about privacy issues... I will leave this office at some point, sometime in three and a half years, after that I will be a private citizen. And I suspect that, on a list of people who might be targeted so that somebody could read their emails or listen to their phone calls, I'd probably be pretty high on that list. So its not as if I don't have a personal interest in making sure my privacy is protected. But, I know that the people who are involved in these programs, they operate like professionals. And these things are very narrowly circumscribed. They're very focused and in the abstract, you can complain about "Big Brother" and how this is a potential, ya know, program run amok. But when you actually look at the details, I think we've struck the right balance."

It existed before, too. This is that Presidential Derangement Syndrome people have, where they think this is the most powerful man in the world, who runs it all and creates his own system of government as soon as he gets into office. Quit scapegoating and dodging citizen responsibility.

[freshwest]

12. Thanks so much. I heard that somewhere. Please post a link to the transcript.

[treestar]

14. link

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251310274

[freshwest]

16. Thank you. Have K & R'd that thread.

[Cha]

19. Yeah, they can criticize all they want but they

better have their facts right.

And, we do require FACTS in the Barack Obama Group.

[darkangel218]

22. So post the facts.

Obama didnt fight FISA. Or phone/net surveillancence. I supported him. I donated from the lil I had.


Not anymore.

[Cha]

23. We have been posting the FACTS all day yesterday and the day before..

You can read them but not in the Barack Obama Group.

Not anymore.

[sheshe2]

32. Thank you for that, Cha.

I just got home and because of Steve's heads up was able to catch most of the show. Excellent!

Did you catch it?!

[Cha]

33. You're welcome, she.. no, sorry I didn't but,

he's going to post the transcript and I'm looking forward to it!

Good to have you back!

[sheshe2]

35. It's in the BOG now, Excellent!

U will love it Cha!

[Cha]

36. thanks, she! I've been

on a ProSense thread calling out the relentless personal insults against her.

[sheshe2]

38. I will look for that, thanks Cha~

[dkf]

4. Are you going to criticize the next loony Republican President who uses this for who knows what?

You can't pull it back you know.

[stevenleser]

6. I'll discuss after the show airing. nt

[OKNancy]

25. You sure have been a busy little bee haven't you?

I see you have gone from bashing the administration on social issues ( from the right) and now are up in arms about this.
I expect all the outrage from our usual group on the left and far left. All of your posts about this subject just make me even more suspicious of your motives.

[LostOne4Ever]

5. I support Obama even if I don't support his position this time

I don't agree with Obama's position on this, but I also think fellow Dems are being somewhat unrealistic about the entire matter.

If he had not continued with a strong national security the republicans would have accused him of being weak on defense and putting peoples lives in jeopardy over trivialities. As much as I LOATHE this particular position he has made it where no dem can be accused of being weak on defense for many many years to come. That is a good thing.

The base is wanting him to act ideologically pure again and forgetting all the fearmongering the repubs did in the past and the political realities of the present. He had to make the decisions that he made.

This is not the "West Wing" where our political opponents are drooling morons (though many are). Or would these dems rather have Obama replaced with a republican who would not only expand the policies even further, but also have the belief that they can declare anyone who disagrees with them an enemy combatant?

That said, I hope Obama uses this situation to promote legislation to protect our privacy rights and restrict/end the drone program and repeal the patriot act. But I am sure the republicans would stop pretending to care about our rights and shoot that down in an instant.

[freshwest]

10. He's already asked Congress to roll back his powers under the AUMF. But they haven't done that,

Last edited Sun Jun 9, 2013, 09:12 PM - Edit history (2)

regardless of their grandstanding, filibustering. They are inciting their base and demoralizing Democrats. This is a classic ratfucking operation as named by Donald Segretti and used ever since:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Segretti

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022974284#post53

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022974284#op

Because the GOP in the House and Senate are waiting for their guy to get into office, and use them to silence their opponents for good. Tom Delay's term 'permanent Republican majority' should ring a bell. They are not hiding their intention. How can anyone forget that or that they own the majority of the media?

Everything they have tried to transfer onto Obama as they are doing now, they have done. Some of their cabal has done prison time for it.

They would not allow necessary funding to close Gitmo in order to hurt Obama, and to fire up their base. They still claim his intention is to bring them here to commit terrorism. They finally admitted this year that they will not allow Obama to do it. But those who have their minds made up to blame Obama will keep on doing it because the media tells them it's the smart thing to do. An appeal few can resist.

The conservative billionaire owned media.

The faux media liberals are just libertarians working to depress our vote to get another GOP in office. Whatever they toss at Obama, the big target, also filters down to local elections. Here is an example of some real civil rights that are going to go away if we don't have the will to fight to hold or change state legislatures and representative majorities in the HoR or Senate:

A video was posted in which someone filmed Paul Ryan, a Koch brothers lackey all the way, meeting his followers and put it on youtube.

He began with the anchor baby argument, but at :55 in the video, he says their goal is to turn enough states red to get them to pass a repeal of the 14th Amendment. He framed it in terms of illegals because of welfare, but this much more dangerous than it first appears.

Those people ate it up, because that's how they get the lower in society to vote for what they want, division based on hatred. But consider the other clauses in the 14th upon which many of our rights depend.

In addition to the Reconstruction part of the Amendment there is Birthright Citizenship, and the Due Process and Equal Protection clauses. We know what their intentions on voting rights have been; their assaults on the poor and every kind of 'minority' civil rights. They wouldn't stop at ending birthright citizenship, or any form of gender rights, labor or environmental protections.

They want this country back to something far older, oppressive than most of us ever knew. Here is the video, the thread and my further comments. I hope that people will listen to this:

Paul Ryan Casually Drops This Slur And Shows The GOP's Effort To 'Reach Out' Is B.S.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017117146

My comment here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017117146#post3

Think two steps ahead, this is not just bigotry. They know that will garner attention of those who believe in discrimination and those of us who are resisting that. While we must resist, think long-term.

It's always about money and power with all the works of the Koch brothers, their candiates and ALEC.

This is what is being planned in the private rooms and country clubs across this nation. They have the money and a plan. We must mobilize and keep going, not get demoralized by every passing thing their media tells us. They are playing for keeps.

We had better get our facts right and hold on, stay united, or they will rule us with an iron hand. If anyone thinks they're kidding with their current attempts to ramp up wars, end voting, labor, woman and minority rights, they only have to look back on every outrage they've done and finally comprehend one thing:

That they will stop at nothing, absolutely nothing, to take down this government and install the Koch Kingdom.

Those conned cannot admit it. They began with a superior attitude looking down on those doing the work, but did not offer any workable solutions to the things they attacked.

The House can defund all of this activity today. Instead they are busy restricting women's rights and cutting off food aid to the poor, and refusing to ease the pain of the Sequester.

They agitated for these laws, called everyone who opposed them traitors, called for the death of those who opposed them in their media, thus passed the laws.

They could repeal them right now if they really cared about this but they are using this to drive Democrats to vote for Rand Paul, as they did in 2008 to support Ron Paul and to vote for the Tea Party in 2010. They are now peeling off those who care to vote for them in 2014 off this one issue. We've seen it here at DU in numerous OPs and replies.

They don't care about it. We do. That's how they con us.

Thanks for your insight.

[Cha]

21. Yeah, the Grifters are having a big hay day right now.. Yuck it, wastrels.

Do you have a link for when that info on the President asking about limiting the powers of the President, fresh? I know it's around here somewhere.

Thanks!

[freshwest]

28. President Obama: Repeal the AUFM

President Obama: Repeal the AUFM

...All these issues remind us that the choices we make about war can impact – in sometimes unintended ways – the openness and freedom on which our way of life depends. And that is why I intend to engage Congress about the existing Authorization to Use Military Force, or AUMF, to determine how we can continue to fight terrorists without keeping America on a perpetual war-time footing.

The AUMF is now nearly twelve years old. The Afghan War is coming to an end. Core al Qaeda is a shell of its former self. Groups like AQAP must be dealt with, but in the years to come, not every collection of thugs that labels themselves al Qaeda will pose a credible threat to the United States. Unless we discipline our thinking and our actions, we may be drawn into more wars we don’t need to fight, or continue to grant Presidents unbound powers more suited for traditional armed conflicts between nation states. So I look forward to engaging Congress and the American people in efforts to refine, and ultimately repeal, the AUMF’s mandate. And I will not sign laws designed to expand this mandate further. Our systematic effort to dismantle terrorist organizations must continue. But this war, like all wars, must end. That’s what history advises. That’s what our democracy demands.


http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entry/read-transcript-of-obamas-speech-on-counterterrorism-policy

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022891567

Is it any wonder that the RW and their faux peacenik libertarian allies came down hard on this speech in every way they could to hurt Obama?

Obama places a brilliantly phrased dagger to the heart of the Bush administration in speech today

OBAMA:

In the 1990s, we lost Americans to terrorism at the World Trade Center; at our military facilities in Saudi Arabia; and at our Embassy in Kenya. These attacks were all deadly, and we learned that left unchecked, these threats can grow. But if dealt with smartly and proportionally, these threats need not rise to the level that we saw on the eve of 9/11.

on the eve of 9/11 alluding to the fact the previous administration was AWARE OF the threat, but its response to intel of an imminent threat was tragically inadequate.

The New Counterterror Policy (complete transcript):

http://www.boomantribune.com/story/2013/5/23/155133/069

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022893201

GOP Sen: Obama’s Counterterrorism Speech A Victory For Terrorists

Sen. Saxby Chambliss (R-GA) strongly criticized President Barack Obama's speech on counterterrorism on Thursday, in which he announced he will again seek to close down the detention facility in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba by requesting the Department of Defense designate a new site to hold military commissions in the United States.

“The President’s speech today will be viewed by terrorists as a victory," said Chambliss, who recently golfed with the president, in a statement. "Rather than continuing successful counterterrorism activities, we are changing course with no clear operational benefit. We knew five years ago that closing Guantanamo was a bad idea and would not work. Yet, today’s speech sends the message to Guantanamo detainees that if they harass the dedicated military personnel there enough, we will give in and send them home, even to Yemen. With the recidivism rate now at 28% and the increased threat from al Qaeda and its affiliates, including in Yemen, GITMO must stay open for business."

In a historic speech at National Defense University in Washington, Obama said he would seek to bring the era of global war on terror to an end by calling on limited drone warfare and the lifting of restrictions on detainee transfers from Guantanamo Bay.

"I am lifting the moratorium on detainee transfers to Yemen, so we can review them on a case by case basis," Obama said. "To the greatest extent possible, we will transfer detainees who have been cleared to go to other countries."

http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entry/gop-sen-obamas-counterterrorism-speech-victory-for-terrorists

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014491251

Obama's Speech on Counter-Terrorism Raises Concerns Among Israeli Lawmakers

Israeli intelligence experts, defense mavens and foreign policy gurus should be poring over President Barack Obama’s address to the National Defense University by now. Many of them, one can safely posit, won’t like what they’re reading, in the text and between the lines.

And it’s not only because Obama, contrary to conventional wisdom in Israel, included the Israeli-Palestinian conflict among “the underlying grievances and conflicts that feed extremism from North Africa to South Asia.” Israelis have fought long and hard to counter the assertion that the conflict fuels or sustains Islamic extremism and the Arab Spring has only cemented their conviction.

But it will come as no surprise to most mavens that Obama, along with his vice president and secretaries of state and defense, is convinced that resolving Israel’s conflict with the Palestinians will go a long a way towards soothing Arab and Muslim resentment of, and enmity towards, the U.S. in particular and the West in general.

Rather it is Obama’s declaration of intent to bring the American “war on terror” to an end that may be a source of greater concern for Israeli policy makers, on a philosophical level at least. Obama’s view that there is no single global jihadist campaign that is being waged against America contradicts the prevailing outlook of most Israelis, inside the government and out. His conception that terrorists from Boston to Beirut to Baghdad to Benghazi, even if they are jihadi-inspired, are separate entities, rather than manifestations or even tentacles of a singular ideological central command, flies In the face of most Israelis’ view of the world. As it does for many U.S. Republicans.

Read more:

http://forward.com/articles/177367/obamas-speech-on-counter-terrorism-raises-concerns/#ixzz2UMrHr5Jr

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022902778

Note, it's likely none of those who say they will now vote for Rand Paul or the Green Party because of lofty principles and philosophy, after all these media poutrages, rec'd any of these. Most of those threads sank like a stone with a few catcalls and jeers added, with only the often called 'Obama apologists, asskissers, blind followers and authoritarian swooners' posting in support of changing our nation's policy to a more peaceful one.

And then is it any wonder that the only coverage the coordinated conservative media gave, which divided DU was the story of heckling Obama's attempt to inform the public:

Obama’s Counterterrorism Speech Interrupted By Heckler...(updated with full video)

President Barack Obama's speech Thursday at National Defense University was interrupted by a protestor, identified as Code Pink's Medea Benjamin.

Obama mostly allowed Benjamin to shout her criticisms, repeatedly thanking her.

"You should let me finish my sentence," Obama ultimately said.

http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entry/obamas-counterterrorism-speech-interrupted-by-heckler-video

Updated to add:

WATCH: Full Video Of Protestor Heckling Obama

Before he began to outline his proposals for the detention center in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba during a major counterterrorism speech Thursday at National Defense University, President Barack Obama was interrupted by a protestor, identified as Code Pink's Medea Benjamin, who shouted several criticisms before being escorted out.

"You are commander-in-chief. You can close Guantanamo today," Benjamin shouted, according to a White House pool report.

Obama repeatedly implored her to let him finish.

"You should let me finish my sentence," Obama said.

He later said he's "willing to cut the young lady who interrupted me some slack" because he was addressing issues that are "worth being passionate about." But minutes later, Benjamin interrupted the speech again, as the President stood at the podium and listened.

President Obama: Congress briefed on all drone strikes; supports additional oversight

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022891534

President Obama: Repeal the AUFM

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022891567

Obama on Gitmo: will appoint senior envoy, restart transfers, call on Congress to lift restrictions

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022891615

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022891704

How did Benjamin Medea and CODE PINK repay Obama's repeated support for her heckling and the view she was putting forth?

How about a little dripping irony from CODEPINK re Michelle Obama and heckler

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022953975

What will be remembered here at DU and in the public's mind? Only the heckling and fly by the seat of the pants reporting. Real news is not allowed in the USA.

The thead below recieved little attention, because no one wants to know that Obama is listening and acting on our concerns:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022891534

In the meantime, what should have been the focus was the actual text of Obama's speech at the National Defense University will get no attention:

READ: Text Of Obama’s Speech On Counterterrorism Policy As Prepared For Delivery

President Barack Obama made the case for his administration's counterrorism policy on Thursday at National Defense University in Washington. Full speech as prepared for delivery below:

http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entry/read-transcript-of-obamas-speech-on-counterterrorism-policy

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251307621

I was the first or third rec on most of those threads from a search, that those who claim to be so concerned didn't bother with. They only focus on bad reports, tossed out by libertarian heroes such as Greenwald, etc.

That's the ratfucking way to stop our getting momentum to end the AUMF, change surveillane and other policies and to divide the Democrats by using a Rand Paul loving activist like this:



She 'Stands With Rand,' to demoralize Democrats and energize Teabaggers. See her running buddies:

http://www.dronereport.net/top-10-voices-drone/

http://www.democraticunderground.com/101664335#post7

It's the Koch method to reduce Democratic votes by co-opting liberal causes. The end result benefits the 1% and the Koches.

There are Infowars videos with her chatting away. It's a fusion of Democrats and Republicans who decided they had to go farther after disappointments with Clinton and then Bush. That is good. But all they've done in the end is fall for Koch brothers bait.

It's a bigger group than are commonly given credit for existing, but always furthers the Libertarian and corporatist goals by default, no matter how it's packaged. Toss a few anti-war crumbs, some weed and a few freedom rags to those who believe in those, done deal.

I don't call the Koch and other conservative machines stupid. That's a pat on the back we fool ourselves with. They've got the time and money to buy think tanks, and a lot of other things. All to get the public to agree with their ideal for the future.

At the tipping point, they can discard that circus and just get down to plain, unwrapped fascism. Public opinion will mean nothing as it doesn't mean anything in the third world, no one cares about lofty ideals when they're on the hunt for food, water and a place to live.

They are like the potter in the bible, they divide us, break us and make us over again if we let them to do it. It's hard to keep things in balance. Either direction we fall, they profit.

BTW, in most measurements that count, Julian Assange is a one-percenter. And would probably vote for this guy:



Who doesn't give a flying fuck about my rights!

Okay,

[Cha]

29. WOW, fresh! That's Some POST!

Thank you for all the valuable information right here. Good mining data!

Righteous Rant, girl!

[sheshe2]

37. Thank you freshwest,

I too was looking for that article, I wanted it for an OP that I made. So thanks.

I will follow your other links, just getting home and am way behind the times.

As for our President, he does now and always will have our backs!

They can rant and rave all they want, same shit different topic. The rhetoric never changes. Yet we are the robots, Obamabots, mindless followers, sheeple to our deity!.....well one sure could say the same thing about them! The difference, we have hope, we work, hell no we sweat and toil to make change happen. What do they have, an unfathomable hatred. Their minds are so rooted there that they will never let an ounce of joy, happiness or vision enter there lives. Now that is sad!

[Isoldeblue]

24. +1000%

[stevenleser]

7. Also, I don't normally do this but I may post the transcript afterwards. I think this issue is

too important to allow all of the misinformation that has been floating around about it.

[MADem]

9. +1 nt

[freshwest]

11. Please do, Steven. I'm sure most can read faster than the time listening will take.

Some may miss the show by not being able to play, just as in some cases people can't watch videos. It would be very helpful.

[Cha]

20. Please DO!! Thanks

Steve!

[emulatorloo]

26. I would appreciate that!

[sheshe2]

30. Thanks for the heads up, steve.

I had just gotten home from work when I read about your show, so I missed some of it.

I was frantically trying to take notes.

So yes please post the transcript. It was excellent and needs to be heard! I for one need to go over the timelines to get it all down.

Love the praise of Ted Kennedy's achievements of protecting our civil rights and our liberties (stated after his death by FISA?! correct?)

The tearing down of this President on this issue, has been painful to watch. Thank you for setting the facts from fiction straight!

Thank you stevenleser!

[Major Hogwash]

13. Thanks for the tip.

Some of these people have lost their minds over it.
They're even quoting Ari Fleischer!!

You know it's bad when they start quoting Ari Fleischer.

[darkangel218]

15. When Chernobyl happened, my dad and uncle were listening

To Voice Of America. On a lil tiny old transistor. Which wasn't even legal to possess.
I grant me being alive and safe to VoA.

Don't let your rights and freedoms slip away. It could be too late.

[Major Hogwash]

17. Over Macho Grande?

No, I don't think I'll ever be over Macho Grande.

[darkangel218]

18. I have no clue what you meant by that.

[stevenleser]

27. 20 minutes to showtime. Note after 8pm it will be available at the same link in perpetuity nt

[grantcart]

31. I am not fighting with anyone about it.

It strikes me a little odd that people are reacting about generic data research while the government is getting a lot more nosey about every financial transaction. Also the internet follows you around with creepy ads that show they know exactly what you are looking at, so it seems like they should be outraged at other things that are a lot more intrusive.

I would like to see more transparency.

What I am afraid of is that we are adding layers and layers of activity that have questionable efficacy. The terrorists are very flexible and change their tactics once they know our actions. For example they are not going to use shoe bombs again but millions of people every day are stuck taking off their shoes.

We are still making tanks that fit a WWII military strategy and it is wasted money. I suspect that the PRISM operations were, at one time, effective but are now just part of a large and very expensive overhead with questionable efficacy.

I also suspect that some of these things remain in place because of the Republicans insanity on Benghazi and the President wants to focus on getting things passed, like immigration reform and doesn't take on some of these other issues because he needs to pass important legislation that really effects peoples lives.

So I don't mind people getting upset and wanting more information. It may be helpful to the President in his maneuvering with the Republicans.

As for the American people, they are not really engaged in the issue as far as I can tell.

If people want more change then we are going to have to win the off term elections and Democrats just don't get out and vote like Republicans do in off term elections.

[Cha]

34. It would be nice, if we were just dealing in

facts, though.

yeah, we're stuck with taking off our shoes because if they decided to stop that then some asshole would try to slip a bomb on the airplane via his suicidal sneaker.

[1StrongBlackMan]

39. Steve …

Great show. But as usual, it is no doubt wasted in that most of those being critical have no interest in facts … they are just reacting to being told that this matter is an “existential threat to their freedom.” Or, worse … they have a narrative that they must push on Democratic boards.

Personally, I suspect much of it is the latter.