I've yet to read a valid post made

[Isoldeblue]

This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by grantcart (a host of the Barack Obama group).

against Obama, on his stand on Syria. This highly opinionated contingent, who believe they know better and have more info than Obama or Kerry does, only give suppositions and hypotheticals as their reasons. No evidence, no concrete info.

But based on so little, they believe they are right in making such an incredible moral jusgement on all those that perished under the cruelest conditions.

Hundreds of children's lives are of less value than their "ideology"!

+++++THIS IS A POST MADE IN THE BOG+++++++
Please respect our group and it's purpose. Thank you.

[Wait Wut]

1. To be fair...

...this isn't a battle of logic from either side. It's a battle of emotions. Yes, there are those that would oppose Pres. Obama no matter what his stance, but I think the majority of the DU opposers truly believe that interfering in Syria is wrong. On the other side, we have those that truly believe that saving the citizens of Syria is a moral obligation.

Then there are the rest of us that don't know. We're just glad we aren't running things. Neither decision will be the right one. I pray for the citizens of Syria and our President's sanity.

Oh, and of course, the handful that say, 'fuck Syria'. Hell, they're just human beings.

[catnhatnh]

2. If they refuse to release any evidence or concrete info...

then we have an absolute responsibility to be skeptical of their plans and reasoning. This is a post TO your group-please respect that having been lied into war crimes before some of us will refuse our consent based on "trust me" and that includes people who campaigned and voted for him twice.

[Isoldeblue]

4. Who is they?

[catnhatnh]

7. President Obama

and any other party leaders who want democratic support. Why is it hard to understand I oppose war and will NEVER support one without hard truths that make it necessary?

[Isoldeblue]

11. Just because "your special self", opposes war

does not give you the right to come into our protected group to argue with a member here. You are out of line, disrespecting our SOP. This is not an open forum where you are free to post whatever.

I also oppose war. But I support our President and believe that he will NOT put us into another war. That is MY personal opinion, in my group, and I have every right to say that an to believe what I want without a sniveling, little twerp like you to come into MY group, to say I'm wrong!

[Coolest Ranger]

24. I respect your right to oppose war

so do i, but you're not respecting our right to praise President Obama and his handling of running our country. GD is the place you can vent your disagreements with his policies. Not this group.

[SunSeeker]

6. BOG is not denying you any "respect."

Please respect the rules of this group.

I am sure everyone in BOG is aware there are DUers who think there has not been "any evidence or concrete info" released justifying military action.

This group is for folks who support the president. You have the rest of DU to post your assertions of lack of evidence.

[catnhatnh]

8. Really

ONLY for those who blindly support every fucking thing he proposes? Then this group doesn't belong on a "democratic" anything.

[SunSeeker]

10. If you think BOG should not exist, take it up with the admins.

In the meantime, respect the rules of this group.

[catnhatnh]

13. Perhaps group members should read the SOP-as I just did.

If you can offer any proof that I am one of those "who have a generally negative view of President Obama and his administration, support his defeat in the 2012 presidential election (in primaries or the general election), or who are generally supportive of those who do", you will have a point. Otherwise this is a discussion board, not a worship service.

[SunSeeker]

15. Read the whole SOP please.

The mission of the Barack Obama Group is to discuss information and news about the life, career, accomplishments, and presidency of Barack Obama; to provide a haven for those members of Democratic Underground who support the president and his policies; to discuss President Obama's policy positions, speeches, interviews, and other public appearances; to discuss President Obama's political campaigns; and to discuss the causes which President Obama has championed, including health care reform and ending the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq.Those who have a generally negative view of President Obama and his administration, support his defeat in the 2012 presidential election (in primaries or the general election), or who are generally supportive of those who do, are not welcome in the Barack Obama Group.

[IrishAyes]

30. You also don't have the right to barge into a private group and demand that we defend our rights

to expel you. The onus is on YOU. Depart in peace while you still can. Unless you take some silly pride in being banned. Would that make you feel more legitimate? Sad if you have to get your jollies that way, but it can be arranged. Rather quickly too.

[Cha]

32. Perhaps you should not come in here and insult Members of our

group, catnhatnh.. especially when you don't know what you're talking about.

Read the Mission Statement again.. zero in on this sentence that I bolded for you.

And, it clearly states in our Mission Statement that.. "to provide a haven for those members of Democratic Underground who support the president and his policies.."

You have the whole board to discuss anything you want.. just not in the BOG. Not anymore.

[Coolest Ranger]

21. If you can't respect the rules of BOG

please kindly leave us alone and go cry me a river in general discussion. I am so sick of you stupid far left leaning idiots coming in here ever few days and sucking the air out of the room. You have GD, take your libertarian ideals and go complain there.

[DevonRex]

29. Excuse me? You might want to delete that. Now.

[catnhatnh]

31. Why would I? N/T

[DevonRex]

34. Just in case you really didn't intend to be a complete jerk to people here.

[DevonRex]

36. Too late. I told you so. Someone beat me to the block button.

Really, you didn't deserve that one last chance I gave you. And I won't be giving any chances at all from here on out. If you're rude once, that's it.

We have one tiny fucking postage stamp of a space on DU.

[sheshe2]

63. For the BOG~

I have to say, we are not blind supporters of this President. In fact if you ever truly read some of our in depth discussions here, you would see we are highly educated. We read and research the issues. Oh my, we are informed. We believe in facts, not hair on fire Scenarios.

It's sad that you believe that Democratic Supporters of This Democratic President do not belong on Democratic Underground.

In fact you state that we...

Then this group doesn't belong on a "democratic" anything.

[DontTreadOnMe]

3. Dead children gassed don't matter to EXTREME LEFTISTS

it's not "our" children, let them sort it out.

The number is almost 9 million refugees, mostly women and children - all homeless and barely getting food.
Go ahead, look the other way.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

5. That's right, dawg, get that emotion card out and wave it all about.

We want facts, and not bluster. We want facts and not "Trust us."

Is that too hard for some to comprehend?


And BTW: every time you shout hollow epithets like "EXTREME LEFTISTS" just make you appear more foolish.

[SunSeeker]

9. That post wasn't directed at you.

It was posted in BOG, for BOGers. Please respect the rules of this group.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

12. Oh, I get it. This is an echo chamber.

There's not much sense in letting the post show up in Latest Threads if there is no room for rebuttal.

[catnhatnh]

14. +1

[SunSeeker]

16. Well yes, if DU itself is an eco chamber.

Many Republicans/trolls have made the same "echo chamber" criticism of DU as a whole: Why is DU on the web if it won't allow "rebuttal"? What they ignore is that this is a "haven" site For Dems.

But you can make your anti-Obama points anywhere on DU. You just can't do it here. This group is a pro-Obama haven. Please respect the group's SOP.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

17. "It was posted in BOG, for BOGers. Please respect the rules of this group."

Your words, dude.

A haven without free exchange is a gilded cage at best.


And while we're on the subject, my post: http://www.democraticunderground.com/110215011#post5

I did not mention President Obama anywhere in it yet you characterize it as anti-Obama points.


That is disingenuous at best.

[SunSeeker]

18. This group is not where you go to criticize Obama policy.

You can have your "free exchange" ANYWHERE on DU but here. You are not manacled to this group. Please respect the group SOP:

The mission of the Barack Obama Group is to discuss information and news about the life, career, accomplishments, and presidency of Barack Obama; to provide a haven for those members of Democratic Underground who support the president and his policies; ...

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

19. "You can have your "free exchange" ANYWHERE on DU but here."

You summed that one up nicely.

I couldn't have made a better point in my favor.

[Isoldeblue]

20. Frankly, we don't give a hoot about

your "point". You have no favor in this group. But I suppose those rules don't apply to "special, entitled you"....

You obviously have no respect for ours. Which says a great deal for your character and lack of maturity.

If you have a problem with that, do as SunSeeker suggested. Take it up with DU Administration. See how far that gets you.

[Coolest Ranger]

23. Leave then and stop wasting our time

I mean you been warned many times that this is not the place for you to spew your anti Obama feelings. Where's SheShe when you need her or Cha.

[IrishAyes]

38. I'm about to PM them right now with my personal recommendations

for chopping off certain heads with long nosey noses. Don't worry, the cavalry's on the way. They might not always know unless we alert them.

[SunSeeker]

27. Glad I made your day.

[Cha]

40. Guess what genius.. you don't have

to mention Pres Obama to be a disruptor in this group.

[Coolest Ranger]

22. Rebutt all you want in GD

not here

[Cha]

35. No, you don't "get" anything.. the OP wasn't even

on the Greatest Page so you're just coming in here to disrupt.

And, ya disrupted poorly.

[IrishAyes]

33. You're being recommended for banishment.

Don't try to make me feel the least guilty. You begged for it.

[Scootaloo]

26. Again with your rage against the left amid cries for war.

And I didn't know missiles could be eaten or used for housing for nine million people. Learn something new every day!

[Cha]

42. You can espouse all the theories you

want on Syria but not in our Group.

You know this is the Barack Obama Group.. yet you come into to disrupt. Not anymore.

[phantom power]

28. I'm going to try an experiment...

Here goes...

I've yet to read a valid post made against Bush, on his stand on Iraq. This highly opinionated contingent, who believe they know better and have more info than Bush or Powell does, only give suppositions and hypotheticals as their reasons. No evidence, no concrete info.

But based on so little, they believe they are right in making such an incredible moral jusgement on all those that perished under the cruelest conditions.

Hundreds of children's lives are of less value than their "ideology"!

Yep, I was sure I had heard that somewhere before.

[DevonRex]

37. Phantom it's time for you to leave this Group. Now.

Enough is enough.

[1StrongBlackMan]

66. But ...

he/she is likely running late for the local NAACP meeting, where he/she will feel entitled to express his/her opinion about what's wrong with Black folks, before becoming righteously indignant, when he/she gets shown the door there, too.

[Cha]

39. You know this is the Barack Obama

Group and you came in here to disrupt.

Too bad you have nothing to offer to the discussion.

[Isoldeblue]

48. President Obama is NOT Bush

Syria is NOT Iraq.

There is NO comparison between the two. It's apples and oranges, in the extreme. There ARE WMD and they HAVE been used. If that does not figure in your thought process, then we will have to agree to disagree.

Like all intelligent democratic liberals who have differing opinions do. It's called respect. Not to act like a teahadist or obstructive neocon.

[sheshe2]

52. Well said Isoldeblue.

[IrishAyes]

41. Great OP, thanks - Rec'd it

I've also sent SheShe2 and Cha troll alerts concerning the attacks, so I'm sure certain little devils will be sent packing shortly.

[Isoldeblue]

50. Thank you so much,

IrishAyes!
Earlier I was so angry, but SunSeeker helped calm me down.

This IS our safe haven and I refuse to allow anyone to come here, from out of the 4th grade slime of the anti-obama in-crowd and tell me how to think about our President.
It kills me me, reading that crap, knowing how much he wants to do right for all of us. And these immature morons think that they know better than he does!

I know in my heart of hearts, that he is NOT like any other cheap politician. He does not have to be perfect. He doesn't have to be right every time. But he is there for us and and takes his job as leader, so seriously. That is all I need from him.

And if I think he is wrong, then I'll tell him so. And the difference between him and others, is that he will listen to me with respect. Even if he disagrees with me.

What more could anyone want?

[IrishAyes]

43. SUGGESTION TO ALL LOYAL BOGers

Let's start doing our part with more speed and diligence by alerting the hosts by PM to troll attacks as soon as they appear. At least one of the hosts will likely be available before long, and then they can get right down to business. Might cut down on the clutter and take at least a little of the wind out of the little devils' sails. After all, I think we owe this to ourselves, each other, and the hosts.

That's my resolution anyway. And let the little devils know we'll K&R every thread they invade in the future.

[sheshe2]

53. Good suggestion, Irish.

We can always use more eyes and ears.

[longship]

44. I confess that I have heard many arguments.

However, they come off more as chair throwing. Dip into a thread and stir the pot by flinging a chair at the posters there. We see it here in this very thread.

I am conflicted about this Syria thing. But I trust my president to do the best he can. That wasn't so when GWB was in the White House. It's a matter of trust.

President Obama isn't perfect. But he's damned good so far. We'll likely see about this Syria thing soon enough.

People need to calm down and sit on their chairs. IMHO.

My first post at BOG, IIRC. I will honor your charter when I do.

[Cha]

45. Mahalo for your post longship..

I'm conflicted about this too. But, I do know that PBO isn't a "warmonger" and Kerry still has his "soul" very much intact.

Welcome to the BOG, longship

[longship]

46. Thank you very much, Cha.

I'll likely not post here often. But it's nice to be welcome. I'll come back and help you celebrate future Obama political victories.

[Cha]

47. Stop in whenever the

mood hits ya, longship!

BOG

[Isoldeblue]

61. So well said! Welcome!

[Niceguy1]

49. I trust obama to make the right decision

N/t

[Cha]

58. So do I.

Thanks Niceguy and Welcome to the BOG.

[mike_c]

51. how's this for validity?

Attacking another nation without doing so in immediate self defense or under UN authority is a war crime. It is defined as such in the UN Charter, which the United States helped to write and which Congress has ratified.

This is not a philosophical point, or a moral argument. It is a simple statement of fact:

Article 2, paragraph 4

All Members shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Purposes of the United Nations.

Article 33

The parties to any dispute, the continuance of which is likely to endanger the maintenance of international peace and security, shall, first of all, seek a solution by negotiation, enquiry, mediation, conciliation, arbitration, judicial settlement, resort to regional agencies or arrangements, or other peaceful means of their own choice.

The Security Council shall, when it deems necessary, call upon the parties to settle their dispute by such means.

Article 39

The Security Council shall determine the existence of any threat to the peace, breach of the peace, or act of aggression and shall make recommendations, or decide what measures shall be taken in accordance with Articles 41 and 42, to maintain or restore international peace and security.

If the U.S. attacks Syria in any way or for any reason, the commander in chief and other responsible parties in his administration becomes a war criminal under international law, and since that treaty was ratified by Congress, under U.S. law as well, although we both know that won't be enforced. How do we know that? BHO would join a fraternity of war criminals that most recently welcomed Bush, Cheney, Rice, and Rumsfeld in waging aggressive war and using American exceptionalism to justify it. They're still walking free, so war criminals have every expectation of not being prosecuted in the U.S..

There's no question of "validity" here, or at least none that I can see. Ban Ki Moon reiterated yesterday that any U.S. attack absent immediate self defense would be a crime against humanity.

[Coolest Ranger]

54. A reminder for Mike C

If you want to criticize the President for the love of god, take it to GD. This is a safe haven for supporters of President Obama. This iS NOT THE PLACE TO BE CRITICAL OF HIS POLICIES. Please complain in GD and kindly leave us alone.

[Cha]

55. How's this for validity? You know you're not respecting the

the Barack Obama Group's Mission Statement but you're doing it anyway.

You have the whole board to talk about what you think on Syria.. just not here. Not anymore.

[sheshe2]

57. I got home

a half hour ago. I see you have been hard at work.

I'll lend a hand now.

BOG Cha

[Cha]

59. Mahalo she!

I've been in and out.. had to take my laptop in this morning and we thought it was fixed but when I got home it was doing the same thing.

So, I'll be doing that all over again.

BOG

[Mosby]

56. considering your vote in 11 Bravo's poll

Last edited Wed Sep 4, 2013, 09:57 PM - Edit history (2)

Maybe you should stay out of this group.

I suspect that people here don't think PBO is more dangerous than putin and assad like you do. Just a guess.

eta http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023597148

[DevonRex]

60. OMG. He did? Gross. Glad Cha booted him. nt

[1StrongBlackMan]

62. I know this will get me flamed ...

but, I think it's safe to assume that anyone posting about Syria, or any military activity, to anonymous message boards or the internet, in general (without being paid to do so) is only posing as someone that thinks he/she knows something. And these folks are too arrogant to acknowledge that they don't know crap and should be immediately ignored, without such an acknowledgement. (Or at least ... that will be my approach)

And anyone posting to anonymous message boards, or the internet in general, demanding access to more information on Syria, or any military activity, is living in a dream world and should be immediately ignored. (Or at least ... that will be my approach)

[Isoldeblue]

64. AMEN!!

The situation in and about Syria is so complex, that I would never presume to know better. I leave it in God's and our POTUS hands and only hope for the best.
You know what they say about everyone having an opinion....?

[1StrongBlackMan]

65. Yes ...

Syria is complex ... and doubly so, when the only source of information that we have access to, is the media that we didn't believe ... until that guy, now in Russia, and that guy in Brazil, appeared to push the guy, holed up in that Embassy's "No More Secrets" agenda ... then the rules changed.

Now ... the media is to be completely, unquestioningly and immediately trusted ... unless, of course, the media puts out a story, poll or opinion piece that doesn't bash President Obama, or Democrats in general.

[sheshe2]

67. Oh you so nailed it!

Thanks 1SBM!

Best to you and the Mrs.

[grantcart]

68. Discussion of DU and bringing frustrations re what is happening in other forums

is not part of the SOP for the BOG.

Let's keep focused on the President and his policies in this group.

If you want to engage DUers in other forums and groups, marshal your facts and arguments and do so there keeping in mind the positive manner the President uses to do the same.

Thanks for your understanding.