Hillary Clinton
Related: About this forum"On Becoming Anti-Bernie." A fantastic article on Sanders and his deceptive campaign.
I hate to admit it but I hesitate to post this in GD-P, so if anyone is more willing than I to ignore or cope with whatever comes, have at. It's a wonderfully researched, carefully compiled list of Sanders' deceptions, manipulations, and smug holier-than-thou attitude posing as idealogical purity.
I liked him at one time. I wish I still could.
https://medium.com/robinalperstein/on-becoming-anti-bernie-ee87943ae699#.avb3lmmz8
On edit: The site requires a little looking. Search the title in the search bar on Medium.com or look for Robin Alperstein.
On second edit: Fixed it. Thanks for the assist.
Her Sister
(6,444 posts)Ah yes I love and highly recommend this article!! I think it covers so much!
nolabear
(41,986 posts)shannonmorris
(2 posts)BlueMTexpat
(15,369 posts)Response to shannonmorris (Reply #18)
BlueMTexpat This message was self-deleted by its author.
liberal N proud
(60,336 posts)workinclasszero
(28,270 posts)In time to stop the damn republicans from turning us into a full blown fascist state this fall!
Response to nolabear (Original post)
MattP This message was self-deleted by its author.
Satch59
(1,353 posts)I was never a Bernie supporter but certainly liked him at the beginning... Now I'm like the author of this article: can't stand to even look at him and really have come to believe that someone who has been in Washington as long as he has, and really has nothing to show for it, is just all talk...
Hillary has been a doer and fighter her whole adult life... NY'ers have seen that firsthand and she'll win NY easily I think.
Enough of Bernie...time to close up shop and hopefully support other Dems...doesn't seem he likes to share...
nolabear
(41,986 posts)Even if he was to (heaven forfend!) get elected, he's got no way to connect or reconnect with they myriad people he's sneered at for not passing his purity test. If Hillary welcomes him in somehow, and I rather hope she does, he may prove more of a problem than a help.
yallerdawg
(16,104 posts)all american girl
(1,788 posts)This was an awesome read, and puts in words what I fail to do. I'm going to have my hubby read it. You rock!!!!!
Yavin4
(35,441 posts)And it also shows why Bernie's style is bad for progressives.
BlueMTexpat
(15,369 posts)And just before that, a description of his actions in the Senate:
Showmanship rather than governance indeed - just like his actions last week in going to Rome.
Tarheel_Dem
(31,234 posts)brush
(53,787 posts)creon
(1,183 posts)It does a good job of describing the matter.
I have nothing against Sanders.
But, I think that he is quite ordinary as a politician.
Haveadream
(1,630 posts)Thank you nolabear!
I, too really liked Bernie (for years!) because he was focused on the role of the 1% and the issues facing the 99%. The turns he has taken during the election, specifically targeting Hillary and all the Democrats, have left me convinced he is unable to process information through anything other than a blame shifting, self aggrandizing and reductive world view. He is a protester, not a leader and grossly lacks the capacity to manage anything other than creating a coalition of dissent.
I will be sharing this article far and wide.
LAS14
(13,783 posts)I didn't spot that anyone else had. Here's the link if you're brave or overwhelmingly curious.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511769272
nolabear
(41,986 posts)It gives me the willies about what would happen to those of us who would vote for him if necessary. Those egalitarians sure do like to make people second-class citizens.
Lucinda
(31,170 posts)saying for the past few months. Amazing to see it all collected in one spot. Thanks much for bringing this!
shannonmorris
(2 posts)Robin Alperstein did not "become" Anti-Bernie. She is the epitome of Anti-Bernie!
"Robin Alperstein concentrates her practice in complex commercial litigation, with a particular focus on disputes involving hedge funds and structured products, and on class action and derivative litigation in federal and state courts. She represents domestic and international clients on a range of issues, including corporate governance matters and shareholder disputes, securities fraud, insider trading, short selling, market manipulation, fraudulent conveyance, employment, and unfair completion matters, including antitrust, theft of trade secrets and non-competition agreements. Ms. Alperstein also regularly counsels clients on complex business disputes involving contract claims, RICO violations, fraud and other business torts. She handles civil cases as well as domestic and international arbitrations, represents clients before the Securities and Exchange Commission, conducts internal investigations, and advises boards of directors, majority shareholders, management and individual directors on corporate governance issues."
http://www.beckerglynn.com/robin-l-alperstein/
Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin
(108,033 posts)And it's clear you didn't read the thing because you attack the person instead what was said.
SharonClark
(10,014 posts)johnp3907
(3,732 posts)sheshe2
(83,791 posts)Bye!
nolabear
(41,986 posts)The reason I like the article so much is that it compiles a lot of already vetted aspects of Sanders' life and history. So if you're going to refute it I'll listen. If you're just here to snark, I don't have the time.
Nerelith
(2 posts)Let me start by saying that In the beginning I liked a lot of what Bernie said. I found what he had to say of interest and appealing.
I had always considered myself a liberal, and to an extent I found that I did not like how far to the center the Democratic Party was straying. My reason for disliking was, as the Republican Party leaned further and further right, the Democratic party seemed to be following it to "the center".
So hearing Bernie speak once I started listening. And a lot of what he said appealed to me, until I started using my brain.
I had no idea how he expected to pay for anything he suggested, because it sounded like too much pie, in the sky, wishfull thinking. Then he says " The Billionaires will pay for it." Beautiful Theory.
Sadly, a Beautiful theory can be destroyed by an ugly fact, and here we have two.
1. The Congress would never allow a President Bernie to pass these things he is Interested in passing. It's Not because " the Congress is rigged" it's because the costs would be so high it would explode the deficit, unless we "Tax Billionaires at 90 % rate.."
Which leads me to point 2.
2. Even if a Congress was ever amenable to taxing at that rate... there are not enough Billionaires to pay for everything Bernie wants to pass. Which means he HAS to tax the middle class. Something he doesn't really mention much.
Here's the thing. I felt about Bernie the same way that Ms Aperstein felt, before I even read it... and I had fewer facts.
Is anything that she says false? I dincerely doubt it. Since we have the internet, it would be stupid to make stuff up, since you read it, on the same location where you can back up or dispute her points... The Internet.
Everything she has mentioned as facts, have already been reported in many different places, all she did was get them all on the same post.
What she has done is provided context to a Lot of facts.
I was watching him and Hilary debate after debate. And his rudeness was palpable. he speaks, she looks at him as he speaks, takes notes... and waits for him to finish, as he fillibusters. But the mopment it's her turn to respond..he waits a few seconds...and starts with the finger... interrupts, distracts, and when she scores you can tell cause he gives a passive-aggressive sigh. or a giggle.
Anyone else notice he never looks at her?
I said to Myself " if he lifts that finger again, I'll reach through the TV screen and break it."
I had this feeling that he couldn't accept correction from a woman. The sexism, was pretty obvious in how he dealt with a woman that was beating him in votes, and in delegates. Every time she looked at him, dorectly, and said.." Can you point to ONE time, I changed my position because of a campaign contribution?" He refused to even look at her, and started on hi stump speech.
he smears her character through innuendo, and she asks him " I am right here, ..you have anytjhing to say to my face?"
Nothing... stump speech.
All of this was clear to me from watching what he said a few times.
It's amazing that he considers a woman that has been praised as " The Most qualified person to seek the office of the Presidency in modern times" to be " Unqualified."
All that the above did was give me more facts. Before I read it, I felt he was " off". he seemed to be a bit of a Hypocrite, as he went from " Super-delegates are undemocratic, the person with the most votes and declared delegates alone should win the nomination" until..he fell behind with both.... then it's " we'll ry to get the super-delegates because.... Polls."
How anyone can say that is not hypocrisy, and not be seen as disingenuous is beyond me.
None of what Ms Alperstein said was untrue.
You did not try to tackle her facts, all you could do, was say that because she is a Lawyer, her opinion is not valid. And mainly , because she doesn't say how awesome Bernie is... The Irony amazes me.
So you have to attack her character..... Amazingly similar to what Bernie does.
Ad hominem attacks are logically fallacious.
They attempt to convince that something about the speaker... makes what they say invalid. Other than trying to debate what they say.
" hey look, she's a wall street lawyer!!!! that means this is BS"
The thing is... Just because you try to attack her person, does not in any way, shape or form, show that what she has said is not true.
When you start making personal attacks, all you do... uis show that you have run out of legitimate arguments.
The thing is, you never started with legitimate arguments.
PS. I am a not a Wall Street Lawyer, I am disabled. You would think I am the perfect candidate to campaign for Bernie, since his campaign seem to be either...
1. Our present government is corrupt.... or
2. Vote for me, I will give you free stuff.
Now.. considering that the second has already been used against Centrist Democrats like Barak Obama , can you imagine the field day the republicans will have with Bernie?
Wake up...don't drink the Kool-aid.
ismnotwasm
(41,989 posts)Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin
(108,033 posts)Great and very extensive write up.
Nonhlanhla
(2,074 posts)(with interruptions inbetween), but it was worth every minute. This is a thorough vetting of Bernie that adds details to the growing discomfort I myself have developed with him.
Thanks for sharing.
nolabear
(41,986 posts)Glad you liked it.
Anonamouse
(1 post)Just googled Robin Alperstein and found this:
Surprise! Author of viral Becoming Anti-Bernie piece is corporate lawyer who defends hedge funds
The piece begins:
You may have seen this On Becoming Anti-Bernie piece, which is going around the internets. Its one of the top three most popular posts on Mediums politics section, has 1.4k likes, and over 600 comments. But who is the author? Robin Alperstein? Shes a corporate lawyer who specializes in defending hedge funds but also represents the occasional nanny-abusing, jet-setting, Chilean aristocratic Upper East Side couple.
Lest you think Im bringing up Alpersteins biography because I cant rebut the substance of her argument, Ill go through a mere sampling of its flaws.
There's a reason people in finance are worried about Bernie, but not Hillary. Bernie is serious about breaking up the big banks. Hillary is a neoliberal, which is the real problem.
nolabear
(41,986 posts)But it's over, so I'll move on to the GE.
Nerelith
(2 posts)Just because you say " she's a wall street lawyer!!" doesn't make anything she says false.
It is a common fallacy, that if you can make a character attack, you can distract people from the fact, that you did not actually address a single point she made.
What you did is kind of similar to Berny saying Hillary is in the Pocket of the "Fossil fuel" industry because she accepted a couple hundred thousand dollars from people in it.
So you basically say " Look she's a wall street lawyer...!!!" that doesn't address any of the facts she expressed.
It is interesting how similar you are to Bernie.
When you cannot debate any of the facts you resort to attacking her character. You focus on her profession.
Here is a fact, even if we accept and admit, that she is biased for Hilary, and against Bernie. That does not make anything she said ..untrue.
When you resort to personal attacks, you simply show others you have run out of valid arguments.
PS: Bernie Likes to make a Lot of hay of the fact that he signed a pledge, to never accept money from the Fossil Fuel Industry, and that Hilary won't.
Hiary accepted money from people that work In the fossil fuel industry, so... Bernie's standards are that means she's bought and paid for... except.... so did he.
The ONLY difference between them is... Hilary never claimed she wouldn't accept money from Fossil fuels. Berny did... and...Berny went back on his pledge.
What word do we use when someone tries to impose a standard on others around him, that he refuses to live up to himself?
Oh ya.... Hypocrite