Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search
 

Her Sister

(6,444 posts)
Mon Apr 18, 2016, 02:53 PM Apr 2016

Not So Boring: Behind Bernie's Massive Mortgage Deduction (HRC GROUP)

Last edited Mon Apr 18, 2016, 03:38 PM - Edit history (1)

http://www.thepeoplesview.net/main/2016/4/18/bernies-massive-mortgage-deduction

This person breaks it down:

Bernie Sanders warned everyone that when he releases his tax returns, it was going to be "very boring".

He was being modest at best.

According to the tax returns Bernie Sanders released on Friday - which are his and his wife's returns from 2014 (not 2015, as he promised) - from an income of over $205,000, Sen. and Mrs. Sanders paid roughly $27,000 in federal income taxes. That's a roughly 13% federal income tax rate, about a full point below Mitt Romney's tax rate of 14% that everyone went crazy over.

But the Sanders made a lot less than Mitt Romney! Sure, but for a progressive who pines for people to pay more taxes, Sen. and Mrs. Sanders aren't shy about taking all the deductions they possibly can, just as Gov. and Mrs. Romney did to get their tax rates down to an abysmally low level. The average effective income tax rate for people in Bernie's tax bracket is a full 2-percentage point higher than what Bernie and Jane Sanders paid.

A more interesting observation is how Bernie and Jane Sanders lowered their tax rates so much, besides for being able to report a smaller wage income of roughly $156,000 even though Sen. Sanders' senate salary of $174,000 due to an array of excellent pre-tax putaways courtesy of the US taxpayer. Just a 2-point drop may not seem like much, but consider the fact that many at that income level are paying off student loans from not just college but also law school, medical school and other professional degrees. Neither Jane nor Bernie is paying student loans.

There are two primary breaks the Sanderses take advantage of: deductions for state and property taxes, and the home mortgage interest deduction. Bernie Sanders and his wife claim nearly $23,000 in mortgage interest deduction, and another $15,000 in property tax deductions.

http://static1.squarespace.com/static/530becede4b093256168fba5/t/5715022501dbaebb76cbce0b/1460994607629/?format=1000w

So what? You say. Everyone who can takes advantage of these! Here's the problem: Bernie's deductions are much, much higher than the average person - both for the home mortgage interest deduction as well as his property tax deduction. For example, the average home mortgage deduction claimed by filers in Vermont is about $8,500. Bernie and Jane Sanders claimed almost 3 times this amount.

To see why, look at the line above...



MORE...
43 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Not So Boring: Behind Bernie's Massive Mortgage Deduction (HRC GROUP) (Original Post) Her Sister Apr 2016 OP
Jane told Andrea Mitchell the morning of the debate last week that the 2015 returns.... George II Apr 2016 #1
Yes today! Her Sister Apr 2016 #2
Excuse me, but are we to believe that Bernie made up the numbers hedgehog Apr 2016 #3
If he had not taken the high ground of purity Her Sister Apr 2016 #5
I think the implication is about the value of his property, and how many they owned that year. Lucinda Apr 2016 #6
It means he's got a lot of property. SunSeeker Apr 2016 #23
The estimate is that he is a millionaire twice over! yallerdawg Apr 2016 #4
There is more stretching in this thread than in a yoga class. hedgehog Apr 2016 #7
Please explain to me why you went through all the trouble to comment in a protected group? Stand and Fight Apr 2016 #9
Sorry - I honestly thought I was in GD-P. hedgehog Apr 2016 #10
Didn't anyone else noticed how little he gives to charity? Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Apr 2016 #8
Actually it was $8,350 LiberalFighter Apr 2016 #12
it is strange. DesertFlower Apr 2016 #22
Does it name the Charity? misterhighwasted Apr 2016 #30
Doesn't the Pope himself avow charity above all else? misterhighwasted Apr 2016 #13
Doesn't the Pope expect you to donate 10% to the church/charity? SunSeeker Apr 2016 #24
You'd think he could give 10% of his phone -banking-for-dollars back to the Church , misterhighwasted Apr 2016 #27
As does the Torah. okasha Apr 2016 #32
Interesting. Obviously the practice of tithing 10% is pretty common. SunSeeker Apr 2016 #34
The giving of alms is also one of the Five Pillars of Islam. okasha Apr 2016 #38
How much are you supposed to give under Islam? nt SunSeeker Apr 2016 #39
I don't recall a percentage, okasha Apr 2016 #41
Bernie's looking more and more like a FRAUD everyday. savalez Apr 2016 #11
Laughing all the way to the bank. misterhighwasted Apr 2016 #14
K&R. nt UtahLib Apr 2016 #15
Rental Properties Koinos Apr 2016 #16
In the article's comment section they discuss that with the author Her Sister Apr 2016 #17
Bottom line is possible trouble with both the IRS and the FEC. Koinos Apr 2016 #20
I believe Jane has the foreign funds in her name. misterhighwasted Apr 2016 #28
I agree that what has been released is boring SharonClark Apr 2016 #18
Explains why they only have wanted to release 2014 returns and nothing from before! Her Sister Apr 2016 #19
Thank you so much for this article! Haveadream Apr 2016 #21
Sanders is a millionaire. And a hypocrite. nt SunSeeker Apr 2016 #25
He'll be a multi multi millionaire by the time he & Jane get to the end of their campaign misterhighwasted Apr 2016 #29
I thought you could only deduct mortgage interest on your primary residence. Fla Dem Apr 2016 #26
I know you can also deduct it on rental property. SunSeeker Apr 2016 #35
What I find interesting on his 2014 Tax Return is the $4473 of Unreimbursed Emp Bus Expenses politicaljunkie41910 Apr 2016 #31
Very interesting to learn your take on this! Her Sister Apr 2016 #33
Thank you. This is very important. Koinos Apr 2016 #40
Thanks for posting this. They probably have years of questionable deductions livetohike Apr 2016 #36
No kidding. I wonder what happened to all that rental income he had. SunSeeker Apr 2016 #37
Did he stop renting the houses? Koinos Apr 2016 #42
No idea. nt SunSeeker Apr 2016 #43

George II

(67,782 posts)
1. Jane told Andrea Mitchell the morning of the debate last week that the 2015 returns....
Mon Apr 18, 2016, 02:59 PM
Apr 2016

...would be released "when they're due". WHEN THEY'RE DUE, not after they're due, in a few weeks, etc.

They're due TODAY. Will they be released today? When they are due we'll see more about what those two items - mortgage interest and real estate tax - are all about. Jane also told Mitchell that they sold property at the beginning of last year.

Interesting.

hedgehog

(36,286 posts)
3. Excuse me, but are we to believe that Bernie made up the numbers
Mon Apr 18, 2016, 03:09 PM
Apr 2016

for his mortgage deduction and property tax? What's the kerfluffle all about?

Lucinda

(31,170 posts)
6. I think the implication is about the value of his property, and how many they owned that year.
Mon Apr 18, 2016, 03:16 PM
Apr 2016

It implies multiple homes. If I understand what has been said...

SunSeeker

(51,571 posts)
23. It means he's got a lot of property.
Mon Apr 18, 2016, 07:05 PM
Apr 2016

His claim that he is only worth $300k - or whatever the figure is today, it changes constantly - is surely wrong. He owns multiple properties in Vermont and apparently owns a property in DC. In the words, he's one of the millionaires he claims are destroying this country.

yallerdawg

(16,104 posts)
4. The estimate is that he is a millionaire twice over!
Mon Apr 18, 2016, 03:10 PM
Apr 2016

His justification that he is one of the poorest senators is shameful and hypocritical. This is all on the public dole.

Have we seen what he spends on Senate-financed activities and staffing, what he expenses and charges to the campaign?

What he pays for thrifty trips to Europe including that charter plane menu?

We all know one year of taxes means so little. It's like picking one day off a monthly bank statement to tell us how much money you have!

Stand and Fight

(7,480 posts)
9. Please explain to me why you went through all the trouble to comment in a protected group?
Mon Apr 18, 2016, 03:34 PM
Apr 2016

You come in here to leave your comment for what reason? Do you expect people to be okay with it? I don't understand when Hillary people go into the Bernie Sanders group, and I don't understand why Bernie people come in here so often. It's not as if you're going to find anything in here that you like. I would speculate that perhaps you're coming in here to stir up trouble...

Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin

(108,026 posts)
8. Didn't anyone else noticed how little he gives to charity?
Mon Apr 18, 2016, 03:25 PM
Apr 2016

He had around a $150 charity deduction on his return. I make a fraction of what he does and I gave $100 to charity last year.

The Obamas made twice his salary and gave tens of thousands to charity last years.

LiberalFighter

(50,945 posts)
12. Actually it was $8,350
Mon Apr 18, 2016, 04:11 PM
Apr 2016
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1107102940

But what is strange for the $8,000 is that it involves multiple amounts all under $250. And only one contribution over $250 for the amount of $350. Also strange is that it is a round number.

misterhighwasted

(9,148 posts)
30. Does it name the Charity?
Mon Apr 18, 2016, 08:34 PM
Apr 2016

Or was it given to Jane's Offshore Charitable Trust, set up to fund their family managed Caribbean camp for teens. Where, by the way, they learned skills like woodworking, which was taught by the Sanders daughter. She was then also paid for her time & justly so of course. But the whole thing just has a sort of "tax haven" feel to it.

"Oh, what a tangled web we weave...when first we practice to deceive."

Walter Scott, Marmion

Ahh, the lives of the 1%

misterhighwasted

(9,148 posts)
13. Doesn't the Pope himself avow charity above all else?
Mon Apr 18, 2016, 04:12 PM
Apr 2016

I hear he's been phone banking for votes & $$ by invoking the Pope handshake. Now is that a campaign deduction?
Whoa..that is low

misterhighwasted

(9,148 posts)
27. You'd think he could give 10% of his phone -banking-for-dollars back to the Church ,
Mon Apr 18, 2016, 08:14 PM
Apr 2016

considering it was on a papal handshake that the funds were raised.
Another question for the FEC, I guess.
Would that handshake then be considered a foreign donation, in a odd sort of way?
Hmmmm..

SunSeeker

(51,571 posts)
34. Interesting. Obviously the practice of tithing 10% is pretty common.
Mon Apr 18, 2016, 10:03 PM
Apr 2016

My Mormon neighbors say they are required to tithe 10% of their income.

okasha

(11,573 posts)
41. I don't recall a percentage,
Mon Apr 18, 2016, 10:36 PM
Apr 2016

but if there is one, it's probably a tenth. Almost all of Muslim religious law comes straight out of the Torah.

Koinos

(2,792 posts)
16. Rental Properties
Mon Apr 18, 2016, 05:15 PM
Apr 2016

If he owns rental properties, he should have filed a Schedule E. If so, where is it?

Maybe he owns vacation homes in the Caribbean and in Denmark?

This doesn't look like full disclosure. That is a huge amount for itemized deductions, considering his income.

 

Her Sister

(6,444 posts)
17. In the article's comment section they discuss that with the author
Mon Apr 18, 2016, 05:19 PM
Apr 2016

Spandan the author. Seems BS and JS did not provide everything exactly... and so on

Koinos

(2,792 posts)
20. Bottom line is possible trouble with both the IRS and the FEC.
Mon Apr 18, 2016, 05:27 PM
Apr 2016

And Sanders expects to run a multi-trillion dollar economy? Will Jane be his secretary of the treasury?

misterhighwasted

(9,148 posts)
28. I believe Jane has the foreign funds in her name.
Mon Apr 18, 2016, 08:21 PM
Apr 2016

The contribution to purchase a share in the St Lucia, Caribb, along with their real estate friend from VT.
The St Lucia boat resort. There's a few fine lines that would take awhile to trace. But if its funnelled through a Caribb Trust or something, then i guess its off limits to any US search.
Unless its in the missing tax papers.
What are they hiding?



SharonClark

(10,014 posts)
18. I agree that what has been released is boring
Mon Apr 18, 2016, 05:20 PM
Apr 2016

He needs to release his tax returns for multiple years including the year Jane retired.

 

Her Sister

(6,444 posts)
19. Explains why they only have wanted to release 2014 returns and nothing from before!
Mon Apr 18, 2016, 05:26 PM
Apr 2016

Wondering if we'll get more year releases. And what about TODAY!! Tax Day!!

Haveadream

(1,630 posts)
21. Thank you so much for this article!
Mon Apr 18, 2016, 05:29 PM
Apr 2016

These are the things that immediately struck me when he released his return. He is such a hypocrite! His investments allow him to take advantage of every conceivable deduction and most people in this country do not come close to his wealth or ability to do that. He does not want his returns to come out because they will shatter the illusion he has been so careful to craft. The fact that he hasn't been found guilty of outright fraud doesn't mean he is being honest about who he is or what he does with his money. If he is so committed to people in his income bracket giving more to the needy, why isn't he already doing it? I know people who make less and not only pay more in taxes but give more to charity. The taxes are a huge holier-than-thou narrative fail for me. I am so sick of being scolded by this less than average on the character scale fool.

misterhighwasted

(9,148 posts)
29. He'll be a multi multi millionaire by the time he & Jane get to the end of their campaign
Mon Apr 18, 2016, 08:26 PM
Apr 2016

..of pillaging & scaming donors.
This is the kind of fraud that wold make burnie madoff look like an amature.
If the truth of his 2016 run is ever investigated.

SunSeeker

(51,571 posts)
35. I know you can also deduct it on rental property.
Mon Apr 18, 2016, 10:06 PM
Apr 2016

I read somewhere that Sanders has rental property that he put in his wife's name.

On edit: This was the article:

According to campaign spokesman Michael Briggs, the senator owns at least two homes, one in Vermont and one on Capitol Hill.

In his 2012 Senate personal financial disclosures, Sanders reported having a joint rental property in Burlington valued at $100,001-$250,000, for which he received $5,001-$15,000 in income. Also in 2012, he reporting a 30-year mortgage of $50,001-$100,000 for a condo in Washington, D.C., dating from 2000.


Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2015/07/bernie-sanders-wife-accounts-for-reported-assets-120261#ixzz46Ec6j3St 
Follow us: @politico on Twitter | Politico on Facebook



politicaljunkie41910

(3,335 posts)
31. What I find interesting on his 2014 Tax Return is the $4473 of Unreimbursed Emp Bus Expenses
Mon Apr 18, 2016, 08:53 PM
Apr 2016

on the Form 2106-EZ. The $4473 of unreimbursed expenses is for Meals and Entertainment of which he is allowed to deduct 50% of his $8,946 unreimbursed expenses.

Let me first say that I am an Accountant by trade, and I am a former DoD Auditor so I know how the system works. I don't think any of these expenses are for Entertainment, I believe they are for meals. So what this says to me is that as a Congressman who chooses to commute to his job in Wash D.C. rather than relocate to his job, he can claim in addition to his Salary of $174,000 which is probably hitting that ceiling of the top 10% of the population, costs for his meals, too. Since I can't tell for certain, whether these $8,946 Unreimbursed Meals represent simultaneously ALL the meals claimed or just those Unreimbursed Meals since the law only allows you to claim 50% of your Unreimbursed meals. Or the Unreimbursed Meals amount may be due to, lets say if the Per Diem Rate for Meals and Incidentals in Washington DC is $46 per day for Breakfast, Lunch and Dinner, and You spend $100, the Government reimburses you for $46 and you have Unreimbursed meal expense of $54 which you can then tally up and then claim these costs as Unreimbursed Meals on your Tax Return, thus getting two bits at the Proverbial Apple.

I bring this up because my job does not pay for my meals when I come to work, nor do most people's jobs, so why should Congressmen get reimbursed for their meals. Also if I am offered a job that requires me to work in Wash DC, I don't get to claim Per Diem for the entire time I am there, only during the brief time I am in a Relocation/Travel Status.

Also, if you are only claiming reimbursement of your Meals and Incidentals during the time you're allowed Per Diem, you don't have to provide receipts for your meals as long as you aren't claiming any costs in excess of the Per Diem Allowance. So my guess is that Honest Bernie is Claiming reimbursement for his meals twice. Once for those meals that he is reimbursed, where his government job pays him in cash. And secondly, he is claiming on his taxes any unreimbursed meals as a tax expense which goes to reduce his taxable expenses.

Now either we should ALL be able to claim reimbursement for our meals when we come to work or NONE of us should be. This shouldn't be something only allowed to Congressmen. There was a time when members of Congress relocated to Wash DC from their home states with their families and lived in Wash DC. During that time, Congressmen and women from both sides of the aisle got to know one another much better because they were not commuters, but lived in the local area and socialized with one another outside of the office which made for a much better working relationship. Now that the Government pays for them to commute to their jobs, they work less, 3 days a week instead of 5 days a week, and they get paid to fly or take the train to come to work and they get to commute on Mondays and Fridays which makes for a much shorter work week, and Bernie Sanders was a member of Congress when all these rules changed.

 

Her Sister

(6,444 posts)
33. Very interesting to learn your take on this!
Mon Apr 18, 2016, 09:52 PM
Apr 2016

What do you make of this: Tax Return Confirms Bernie Sanders Has Financial Stake in Nuclear Waste Dumping

http://www.thepeoplesview.net/main/2016/4/18/tax-return-confirms-sanders-financial-stake-in-toxic-nuclear-dump

Bernie Sanders released his 2014 tax returns this weekend, and in addition to having claiming massive mortgage interest and property tax deductions vastly outstripping the average American - and certainly the average Vermonter - the tax returns seem to confirm a dark open secret in the Sanders family: Jane Sanders personally financially benefits from shipping Vermont's toxic nuclear waste to be dumped elsewhere.


That much we already knew. Now, in light of Bernie Sanders' release of his 2014 taxes, we know that that Bernie and Jane Sanders financially benefit from her position on a Board that participates in willful poisoning of communities despite ample warning. According to their own tax return, Jane Sanders "materially participated" in the board, and received compensation.



http://static1.squarespace.com/static/530becede4b093256168fba5/t/57157f4bd210b8f8e176a616/1461026658874/?format=750w

For a candidate who cannot breathe a full sentence without baselessly accusing his opponent of taking money from special interests, the discovery that he and his wife financially benefit from nuclear toxic waste dumping is... really... something.

But but! It's only $5,000. That's NOTHING!

Koinos

(2,792 posts)
40. Thank you. This is very important.
Mon Apr 18, 2016, 10:35 PM
Apr 2016

This financial interest explains why Sanders approved shipping nuclear waste from Vermont.

Why do I have the feeling that Sanders' releasing more tax returns would be devastating for his campaign?

livetohike

(22,145 posts)
36. Thanks for posting this. They probably have years of questionable deductions
Mon Apr 18, 2016, 10:11 PM
Apr 2016

and 2014 is the year that looks the "best".

I don't trust either of them.

SunSeeker

(51,571 posts)
37. No kidding. I wonder what happened to all that rental income he had.
Mon Apr 18, 2016, 10:20 PM
Apr 2016
According to campaign spokesman Michael Briggs, the senator owns at least two homes, one in Vermont and one on Capitol Hill.

In his 2012 Senate personal financial disclosures, Sanders reported having a joint rental property in Burlington valued at $100,001-$250,000, for which he received $5,001-$15,000 in income. Also in 2012, he reporting a 30-year mortgage of $50,001-$100,000 for a condo in Washington, D.C., dating from 2000.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2015/07/bernie-sanders-wife-accounts-for-reported-assets-120261#ixzz46Ec6j3St 
Follow us: @politico on Twitter | Politico on Facebook

It would be interesting to compare his 2012 returns to 2014.

Latest Discussions»Retired Forums»Hillary Clinton»Not So Boring: Behind Ber...