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gaspee

(3,231 posts)
Tue Feb 2, 2016, 01:08 PM Feb 2016

Probably going to change my vote

Because I've had it. Hillary Clinton is not a Republican, or a baby-killer, or a fascist, or evil, or a liar, or any of the hundreds of smears she is painted with here and to a lesser extent by Sanders supporters who appear on television.

The most admired woman in the world for 20 years straight and counting is not the evil monster she is being painted as by so many people who like to claim to be democrats.

My theory for why younger people hate Clinton so much is that they have grown up listening to the hate-filled right wing attack machine for the past 20 years.

The facts of her life and accomplishments do not line up with what is said about her.

I was old enough during the Clinton Administration that I actually remember it and don't have to rely on the lying liars in the pundit class for their version of reality.

Why do so many fall for it. These are the same people who spread absolute lies about Obama on a daily basis.

My original plan was to vote for Sanders in the primary (RI - late primary so usually doesn't matter) and then Clinton in the general. Because while I, as a New Englander, have known who Sanders was for a very long time, most people had never heard of him, plus I didn't think his ideas would gain much traction in mainstream America. I still don't think they will. I do not believe there is any way he could win a national election. The Republicans are laying off of him right now but that won't be the case for much longer.

I self-identify as a Socialist - and not with a mamby-pamby qualifier of Democratic Socialist.

I also think people are so foaming at the mouth hating on Clinton because of sexism. The same type of sexism as the racism that Obama faces.

If people on the left truly believe (as I do) that a lot of the reason for the not-reality-based hatred of Obama comes from racism, why don't they believe the frothing at the mouth Clinton hatred is not somewhat based on unexamined sexism?

Just felt the need to vent after coming back to DU after a self-imposed break and seeing the absolutely irrational, foaming at the mouth Clinton Derangement Syndrome that has infected DU so badly.

I like Sanders, I like O'Malley (I hope he runs again in the future - he's young) and as my former governor, I even liked Linc.

I know I'm rambling, but this was a lot more clear in my head. I am voting for Clinton in my primary now.

Edited to add - I will not be replying to any negative comments.

Also edited to add something I meant to talk about and forgot to put it in my post.

I was anti Iraq war in 2003. It was a very lonely position. Something like upward of 80% of Americans were for it. I don't feel like looking up the numbers right now but it was an embarrassingly high number. For all of the people who claim they won't vote for her because she voted for the authorization of use of force, I would bet cash-money that most of them were pro that war at that time. I remember that time as being extremely lonely if you weren't a flag-waving, lets go kill some A-Rabs (sarcasm) American - revisionist history is fun! And I won't believe people who say they were anti Iraq war if they don't prove it because if you ask people now, of course they were against it! Well, the numbers from back then don't lie. If all the people who claim they were against it back then ACTUALLY were, we never would have went!

I lost a lot of friends between 2001 and 2003 - mostly because I was against both Iraq and Afghanistan wars.

61 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Probably going to change my vote (Original Post) gaspee Feb 2016 OP
Thank you shenmue Feb 2016 #1
Welcome to team Hillary! William769 Feb 2016 #2
Hi! Welcome aboard! lunamagica Feb 2016 #3
Thank you, gaspee! Suich Feb 2016 #4
Your positions are well considered and well stated. They should be well respected GusBob Feb 2016 #5
Welcome Gaspee! Ellen Forradalom Feb 2016 #6
Welcome to the group! livetohike Feb 2016 #7
Welcome to the Group. Here we aim to keep it civil, not civil war. Hekate Feb 2016 #8
"The facts of her life and accomplishments do not line up with what is said about her." SunSeeker Feb 2016 #9
Well, sorry to hear that ... But, we need to be real ... Trajan Feb 2016 #10
Yes Hillary has made it her life's to help Women, children, and just People. You are so wrong. Cha Feb 2016 #44
My mom self-IDs as a socialist too. wildeyed Feb 2016 #11
Carter is the first president I remember. gaspee Feb 2016 #54
Me too. I also grew up during Reagan wildeyed Feb 2016 #58
I'm with you! Stuckinthebush Feb 2016 #12
I'm a socialist too. Starry Messenger Feb 2016 #13
Message auto-removed Name removed Feb 2016 #18
"It's been proven that the feminist movement was one of the catalyst that destroyed the black family LexVegas Feb 2016 #19
Message auto-removed Name removed Feb 2016 #22
This message was self-deleted by its author yallerdawg Feb 2016 #20
Uh, too much bullshit to address there. Keep walking. Starry Messenger Feb 2016 #24
Message auto-removed Name removed Feb 2016 #27
Why? Your assertions are bullshit and awful. Starry Messenger Feb 2016 #28
Perhaps MIRT should become acquainted with that poster? nt UtahLib Feb 2016 #29
Probably. I didn't alert on the posts, the way things usually go in here, the jury would Starry Messenger Feb 2016 #30
Yeah, pretty sad. nt UtahLib Feb 2016 #32
MIRT took out the trash.... BooScout Feb 2016 #42
Hey Boo, we seem to see more than our fair share of trash invading the HRC group. UtahLib Feb 2016 #43
Adios! William769 Feb 2016 #33
Thanks, William. Just alerted on him. nt UtahLib Feb 2016 #35
Good job. William769 Feb 2016 #36
Thank you! xo Starry Messenger Feb 2016 #39
Feminism destroyed the black family? Nonhlanhla Feb 2016 #40
Thank you for your thoughtful and sincere post pandr32 Feb 2016 #14
Hey Gaspee SheenaR Feb 2016 #15
Hi backatcha! gaspee Feb 2016 #56
You've got many friends here gaspee! Firebrand Gary Feb 2016 #16
I can't even read most of DU anymore gaspee Feb 2016 #51
Welcome :) Tarc Feb 2016 #17
You about summed it up! yallerdawg Feb 2016 #21
Spot on Gaspee! Jack-o-Lantern Feb 2016 #23
Thanks and welcome katmille Feb 2016 #25
Good read and welcome! Iliyah Feb 2016 #26
I love this! betsuni Feb 2016 #31
thanks handmade34 Feb 2016 #34
"The facts of her life and accomplishments do not line up with what is said about her." riversedge Feb 2016 #37
Loyalty TryLogic Feb 2016 #38
Hillary is the very best candidate for POTUS.. she totally out Shines bernie sanders. We are so Cha Feb 2016 #45
My cousins are 10 and 12 year olds who also live in RI. ElliotCarver Feb 2016 #41
No, it's not "sexism" to say that about Hillary.. it's total Hogwash. Cha Feb 2016 #46
Tell your wonderful young cousins that I understand that the future is theirs..... FrenchieCat Feb 2016 #47
I've been saying the same thing as you do here for quite a while: Lucinda Feb 2016 #48
My post was alerted on! gaspee Feb 2016 #49
Sorry for not answering until now gaspee Feb 2016 #50
I'm sorry you got alerted on gaspee.. and about your computer and your password Cha Feb 2016 #53
wow! Ana Hauhet Feb 2016 #52
Excellent. I don't know if many people supported what Iraq turned out to be. Hoyt Feb 2016 #55
Speaking of that romana Feb 2016 #57
Good point Ellen Forradalom Feb 2016 #61
Thank you for your heartfelt post. Lisa D Feb 2016 #59
Message auto-removed Name removed Feb 2016 #60

Suich

(10,642 posts)
4. Thank you, gaspee!
Tue Feb 2, 2016, 01:25 PM
Feb 2016

When I hear someone refer to all the "scandals" she's involved in, I realize the majority of them are created and promoted by FOX. Shrub had a term for it: Catapult the propaganda.

GusBob

(7,286 posts)
5. Your positions are well considered and well stated. They should be well respected
Tue Feb 2, 2016, 01:29 PM
Feb 2016

No rambling noted. Thank you

Hekate

(90,769 posts)
8. Welcome to the Group. Here we aim to keep it civil, not civil war.
Tue Feb 2, 2016, 01:46 PM
Feb 2016

A lot of us have felt (and feel) the pain you are feeling. It's nuts out there.

SunSeeker

(51,630 posts)
9. "The facts of her life and accomplishments do not line up with what is said about her."
Tue Feb 2, 2016, 02:00 PM
Feb 2016

Exactly, gaspee. But I guess reality has a Hillary bias.

Glad to have you join us.

 

Trajan

(19,089 posts)
10. Well, sorry to hear that ... But, we need to be real ...
Tue Feb 2, 2016, 02:47 PM
Feb 2016

Hillary has not made it her life's goal to support working families in the ways they need help - increased unionization, worker pay, social security, etc ... Her receipt of hundreds of millions is dollars from the Private Prison Complex, from Wall Street banks, from Fracking and Oil Industry mavens ...

All that money means something ... There is a reason she is getting it, and it's not because they wanna help the little guy ...

So, make whatever choices you wish - we have no need to change our perception of who she is and what/who she represents ...

Cha

(297,489 posts)
44. Yes Hillary has made it her life's to help Women, children, and just People. You are so wrong.
Tue Feb 2, 2016, 09:03 PM
Feb 2016

#HillaryWONIowa even after all the garbage was thrown at her by sanders, his supporters, the M$M, and the gop.

It only made Hillary stronger.

wildeyed

(11,243 posts)
11. My mom self-IDs as a socialist too.
Tue Feb 2, 2016, 02:53 PM
Feb 2016

She is also supporting Clinton.

Another thing that is interesting, a bunch here fawn over Jimmy Carter, supported him in the primary back in the day, or wish they could have. I admire him as a person, but my mom hated him because he was too conservative and marked the end of "real" liberals in politics. She still bitches about the guy.

Being a pragmatist, I dislike him for being so bad at politics and opening the door for Reagan and that tsunami of suck.

Welcome!

gaspee

(3,231 posts)
54. Carter is the first president I remember.
Wed Feb 3, 2016, 01:25 PM
Feb 2016

Dukakis is the first one I voted for. I grew up in the Reagan years - graduated high school in 1987 when i was 16 years old.

People who weren't around or old enough to understand back then do not get what the political climate was back then and how little power Clinton (Bill) had once the Democrats lost the congress.

I am one of the people guilty of calling Bill CLinton the best Republican President we've ever had, but I usually said it tongue in cheek.

Reagan fucked this country up and the whole movement (in large part based in white fear and racism) made it very difficult for liberals to be liberal and still be electable.

In a democracy, you have to do what the people want or you are shut out of the process completely. In what universe is that better?

In my perfect world, our next president would implement a guaranteed minimum income to all citizens but even if we elected a president who would be for it, there is no way it would pass through congress, so it is foolish of me if I made that as a criteria for my vote.

I actually think Clinton is much more liberal in her thinking than most give her credit for, but in being a realist, she knows she can't scare the wildlife if she wants to get *anything* done at all.

I sincerely hope we are seeing an actual movement here and the country is actually turning left after 40 years of right wingers getting their way.

wildeyed

(11,243 posts)
58. Me too. I also grew up during Reagan
Wed Feb 3, 2016, 02:39 PM
Feb 2016

And out on my own, fully self-supporting at 16 too I am about two years older. My first political memory is of "Watergate", but I envisioned it as a bunch of white guys in suits sitting crosslegged on a dam My parents were talking about it ALL the time, bit I was too young to really get what it was about.

I also think that the "youngs" are rightfully pissed about what is going on in the country, but mistaken about the cause. Most whites vote Republican. True story. This is because (as you know) LBJ passed and enforced the Civil Rights and Voting Rights Acts. He was the most conniving, bare knuckle pol on the planet, but when the door opened for those timelessly moral pieces of legislation, he walked through. He RAN. Because he saw the coalition as the best way to get really liberal policy passed. Because the man, for all his flaws, was a flaming liberal on social issues. Too bad about Vietnam, but there it is

Blacks and liberal whites have banded together, trying to hold the line on the rest of the white people, ever since, but we do not always have the numbers to do that. And the youngs MUST UNDERSTAND how important it is for them to turn out every single goddam fucking election. Not just in presidential years or when they are super-stoked about a particular candidate. THAT is where we lose the ground. And that is not Clinton's fault, or the Democratic Party's. It is not old Democrat's fault because we have been showing up and fighting these pricks fro a LONG time.

It is a failure of the liberal coalition to show up when it matters. Voting is NOT fucking hard either. I don't buy that people need a charismatic leader to do it. I don't like brushing my teeth, but I do it because I like HAVING teeth. Voting is the same. Not fun in the moment, but better than GOP.

The Clintons are pragmatists who go under the heading of politicians who do what they need to do to get elected but basically have their hearts in the right place. Living in the South now, I can see the difference between them and really conservative Dems. And I will take, even campaign for, a conservative Dem any day if the choice is between them and a GOP troll.

GOPs got control of our state house and have made all sorts of heinous laws to make it harder for BOTH black and college voters. They are terrified of both groups. Ever heard of a state Dem coalition making laws so college kids can't vote? Me neither. And that alone says who the real enemy is.

I am with you on policy. Yes to single-payer and minimum income. But first, I think we need to deal with racism and inequality. And none of that has the political will right now, so in the meantime, we need to hold the line on the Supreme Court and reproductive rights. Maybe try to cut down on the number of black men police murder. Get the finance law as it relates to student loans improved. Keep tweaking ACA. Those things we can do. Those things are good and incredibly useful to many Americans. In politics, perfect is the enemy of good.


Starry Messenger

(32,342 posts)
13. I'm a socialist too.
Tue Feb 2, 2016, 02:58 PM
Feb 2016

I think there are more of us supporting Hillary than we might think, I get glimpses here and there.

But this country will not get one iota closer to economic equality with the rampant sexism and racism, & I feel there is more potential to move the ball down the field with a solid win by the first female President who is also a Dem.

The horrible sexism in this campaign is really disappointing. xo

Response to Starry Messenger (Reply #13)

LexVegas

(6,088 posts)
19. "It's been proven that the feminist movement was one of the catalyst that destroyed the black family
Tue Feb 2, 2016, 03:45 PM
Feb 2016

What a load of idiotic shit.

Response to LexVegas (Reply #19)

Response to Name removed (Reply #18)

Response to Starry Messenger (Reply #24)

Starry Messenger

(32,342 posts)
28. Why? Your assertions are bullshit and awful.
Tue Feb 2, 2016, 04:19 PM
Feb 2016

You sound like a raging sexist, not my problem though. I'm sure your charms shine like a diamond with all who know you.

Starry Messenger

(32,342 posts)
30. Probably. I didn't alert on the posts, the way things usually go in here, the jury would
Tue Feb 2, 2016, 04:24 PM
Feb 2016

probably just harass me too.

pandr32

(11,601 posts)
14. Thank you for your thoughtful and sincere post
Tue Feb 2, 2016, 03:20 PM
Feb 2016

...and your analysis of the younger demographic being brought up hearing the right-wing smears is spot on. Unfortunately, Sanders has tried to capitalize on it. That is not good for Democrats.

gaspee

(3,231 posts)
56. Hi backatcha!
Wed Feb 3, 2016, 01:50 PM
Feb 2016

We don't have to agree - and I love Bernie, but I am voting for Hillary - I would be proud to vote for either of them in the primary, but I am afraid we will see another McGovern type or Dukakis type election if Senator Sanders is the nominee

Firebrand Gary

(5,044 posts)
16. You've got many friends here gaspee!
Tue Feb 2, 2016, 03:28 PM
Feb 2016

Loved everything that you wrote, I think we're at a turning point and people are fed up! Your line about "My theory for why younger people hate Clinton so much is that they have grown up listening to the hate-filled right wing attack machine for the past 20 years." I think is bang on, I agree so much.

I'm not replying to the negative comments anymore either, I've lost all tolerance in it.

gaspee

(3,231 posts)
51. I can't even read most of DU anymore
Wed Feb 3, 2016, 01:10 PM
Feb 2016

It's really horrible the way people are attacking her. This is not my first rodeo and I know feelings run high during primaries, but this is beyond the pale.

katmille

(213 posts)
25. Thanks and welcome
Tue Feb 2, 2016, 04:04 PM
Feb 2016

to Hillary group. You can see by my 60 or so posts that I am not one of the more prolific posters, but I read this group a lot and agree with most of you. I come to read this group's posts when I just get so tired of the ramblings on Daily Kos or Huff Post that tend to denigrate Mrs. Clinton.
I'm a left-leaning liberal who marched AGAINST Vietnam (yes, I'm as old as Bernie) and marched FOR Civil Rights. I, a white woman, was made an "honorary soul sister" by some of my students when I took to the streets in 1968 when Dr. King was murdered.
I don't like the way the billionaire class has taken control of the country, but we may not need a "revolution", we may just need a smart woman to build on what a smart African American has accomplished.

handmade34

(22,756 posts)
34. thanks
Tue Feb 2, 2016, 04:30 PM
Feb 2016

I probably could have written your post... I don't engage much here at DU though because the Republican propaganda against Hillary is so strong even most on DU have bought into it... and there is no such thing as a rational conversation anymore...

younger people hate Clinton so much is that they have grown up listening to the hate-filled right wing attack machine for the past 20 years


I will happily fight for and vote for either Sanders or Hillary as my President... I only hope that we can all be mature enough to eventually all work together to make sure as many Democrats as possible are put into office across the Country (we need more than just a Democratic President; we need a Democratic Congress as well)

riversedge

(70,270 posts)
37. "The facts of her life and accomplishments do not line up with what is said about her."
Tue Feb 2, 2016, 04:46 PM
Feb 2016

Well said. Lots of what you said is good stuff. welcome in our little place of peace--for the most part--but we have good mods who take care of the rife raft.

TryLogic

(1,723 posts)
38. Loyalty
Tue Feb 2, 2016, 04:54 PM
Feb 2016

I am sure a lot of Republicans vote for Republicans and against their own best interests, against the well-being of others and of the nation because they have always been Republicans. Loyalty.

There appear to be many supporters of Hillary who are voting for her also out of loyalty. In my opinion, based on all I know about money in politics, political favors, and the Clintons, the supporters of Hillary are also voting from loyalty rather than wisdom. If Hillary becomes president, will she suddenly become a non-Clinton. I don't know, but it seems unlikely.

Will enough people take the risk of being disloyal in favor of changes that will help take government out of the hands of big money? I guess time will tell.

Will enough people vote for integrity and good judgment in order to reduce the money-for-favors mentality of Washington (DC)? I guess time will tell.

I understand that there are some good things about Hillary. And she is very clever, as is her husband. They have obviously perfected the mechanics of using their influence to get rich.

Cha

(297,489 posts)
45. Hillary is the very best candidate for POTUS.. she totally out Shines bernie sanders. We are so
Tue Feb 2, 2016, 09:08 PM
Feb 2016

Fortunate to have her.

 

ElliotCarver

(74 posts)
41. My cousins are 10 and 12 year olds who also live in RI.
Tue Feb 2, 2016, 05:43 PM
Feb 2016

The younger one has earned about $100 from a worm-selling business. He’ll even put the worm on the hook for you, if you’d rather not touch it. Full service! Great kid. Enterprising but frugal, he has guarded his growing fortune and rarely expended a penny. Until, I showed him some old footage of a congressman inveighing against the choice of war to an empty Congress, that he chirped up and told his parents he wanted to donate $25 to Bernie. My aunt and uncle, inspired, matched his donation.

I write because...

It is peaceful kids like my cousin who will fight the next wars.

It is greenheart kids like my cousin who have been born into climate catastrophe.

We all know that the fruit of our environmental misdeeds will ripen during their lifetimes. Yet, many of us continue as if business as usual is not catapulting our world into drought, disease, and mass extinction.

Let's be real…

We must reckon with the powerful forces that halt our action to prevent climate catastrophe. These are the same forces that lubricate the gears of war. They employ the same slick lobbyists who whisper the bidding of foreign governments (like Israel and Saudi Arabia) into our *elected representatives'* ears. Remember, chaos is profitable. Iraq made many rich. Defense contracts routinely go 2-3x over budget, I digress...

One other point...

Shootings beget gun sales. It's a noxious truth. Our culture is gun crazed. I agree we should honor the 2nd Amendment if that's what it takes to avoid civil war. But we must not fall for the red herring of "taking on the gun lobby"--for we must take on the WHOLE of the lobbying apparatus! The gun lobby is just an easy target.

Finally...

It is not sexism to say that Hillary is encamped with special interests. Do we really want to wait until she's behind closed doors to find out just how much the White House cost her? Do we really believe that the TPP would not be passed under an H. R. Clinton administration? (Isn't the TPP vastly beneficial to every single one of her corporate constituencies?)

I fear that to ignore the degree to which she is compromised is to wear blinders into the fractious, Koch-funded future.

Despite all that, I would vote for Hillary over any Republican. Look, no sexism.

FrenchieCat

(68,867 posts)
47. Tell your wonderful young cousins that I understand that the future is theirs.....
Tue Feb 2, 2016, 10:15 PM
Feb 2016

But also let them know that what is important today and for tomorrow is not to give the GOP a trifecta, that will change the courts in this land, especially the Supreme Court in ways that will affect their own lives into the future and that it is also my Black Grandson who may be sent in to fight the GOP's wars.

My vote, in the primary, is going to the person that I believe can win the general election, period. I realize that Sen. Bernie Sanders is trying hard to sell himself, but I resent how his supporters have handled selling Mr. Sanders to me and others folks that I know. It is a known and recorded fact, that some (not you, but there are plenty) in the Sanders camp would rather blow up the Democratic party from within, if they must, and are currently attempting to denigrate Ms. Clinton, a very accomplished woman, anyway they can, including buying and selling what the GOP has been selling for 25+ years, calling her liar and dishonest, and on and on, without much more than degrees of associations. There are simply too many cries for his camp that says, "Well I just won't vote if Clinton is the nominee" (not saying you) that raises serious doubts as to what those supporters' agenda really is, and most likely it ain't on "keeping their eyes on the prize".

The Corporate media, like their corporate masters will be pushing and bolstering Marco Rubio, from now on until he wins the GOP primaries. They do not want a Democrat, i.e., neither Sanders nor Clinton to win the general election and it is obvious, as they are encouraging the infighting within our party....so that we can be distracted from our overall goal of keeping the GOP from gaining an electoral Trifecta. They also would much prefer running against Bernie Sanders, as they believe him to be the weaker of the two candidates in a general election. Mr. Sanders has no foreign policy papers or experience, and a nice October surprise would be what they would pray, hope, and work toward. We know how badly they wanted Bush installed, and I saw the bold move they made to have the Supreme Court nullify our votes. They vilified John Kerry's service in the Military, and we saw that work. They will stop at nothing, and with Sanders as somewhat of a blank canvas, it just makes their job easier still.

What would hurt more folks in the upcoming future (like Jan, 2017) than anything, in my opinion, is if the Supreme Court is allowed to be changed to become a 6-3 conservative vote on everything. So concentrating on electing a candidate who can win in Ohio and Pennsylvania is much more important to me than loving everything a candidate says he is going to give me. I will suggest that Mr. Sanders will not play well with middle Class American voters (after the Corporate media is done with him), who we need to win in those purple states during the general election, because this election is specifically about winning, not so much winning primaries.....as the end goal.

I have had Bernie supporters call me a "Corporatist" because my husband and I own a Mom & Pop business (a bit bigger than what your young Cousins are doing), and looked me up on my Facebook, and threatened to send "real progressives" after me somehow. I don't like feeling threatened, as it only smells of desperation, and does not help me, in any way, be attracted to voting for Bernie Sanders. I tend to be practical, and understand quite well that in politics, you can't always have your cake and eat it too, and I already understand the battle that Obama's had to wage just simply to get anything done.

It is clearer to me now than ever, that even if by some Fluke, Sanders would get in, none of those things he promised would see the light of day. Instead, I strongly believe that a Sanders nomination would result in a GOP president, and super majorities in the House and the Senate. On day one, President Obama's entire 8 terms will be erased, along with Food stamps, Planned Parenthood, voting rights, civil rights and everything else.

It took the Civil Rights movement many years to gain what it is that they were fighting for, and even that fight is long from over. For anyone to believe that as a people, we should believe that all of the sudden, folks are gonna gain everything that we could possibly want economically, should know that I have a bridge to sell them as well.

I believe that this election is about winning the White House if nothing else, and ensuring that we can build on President Obama's legacy, rather than to demand what most of us know for sure is not going to happen, not in Sanders' lifetime. The next census election is 2020, a presidential year, so there is hope there for the younger generation who have more time than old folks like me have. However, the gerrymandered congress will not change in this election, and especially if Democrats in every parts of this country. I know this is long, but I did like your story, and wanted to respond to how I truly feel about our children's *future*

Despite all of that, I would vote for Bernie Sanders in the general election if he became our nominee. He is saying those things that few politicians have ever said, and that's wonderful. But it is my opinion that saying what I might want to hear is simply not enough based on what is truly at stake.

Lucinda

(31,170 posts)
48. I've been saying the same thing as you do here for quite a while:
Wed Feb 3, 2016, 06:42 AM
Feb 2016

"My theory for why younger people hate Clinton so much is that they have grown up listening to the hate-filled right wing attack machine for the past 20 years."

I think it has had an effect on all Republican voters. People like Glenn Beck and Rush have been spewing so much garbage for at least two decades, and there is an unfortunate tendency for people to believe what the people on the television and their radio waves tell them, without question. It has made them afraid for their families, and is causing a lot of the crazy behavior that we are seeing from people like the guy who attacked the PP office, and that group in TX that were certain that the Jade Helm exercises were just a ruse to gather them up into FEMA camps.

Very sad when some people on the left have become part of the disinformation campaigns attacking Clinton.

As far as Hillary's IWR vote, she made it clear in her speech before the Senate, that Bush had told her personally that the investigators would be going back in. So either her lied to her, or he had no idea what was going on himself. I know a lot of people "knew" that Bush and Co couldn't be trusted at the time, but I understand her POV. She is a public servant down to her toes, and expects people in that position to be acting for the public good. She learned a very hard lesson with that vote. And she is very clear now that, for her, war is always going to be the last option, so I have moved on from any judgment of her vote.

gaspee

(3,231 posts)
49. My post was alerted on!
Wed Feb 3, 2016, 12:59 PM
Feb 2016

I don't get it

On Tue Feb 2, 2016, 02:19 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

Probably going to change my vote
http://www.democraticunderground.com/110740301

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

This thread is for HRC worshipers only (I am blocked), but it is not labeled as such. That is deceptive. And it casts doubt on people's honesty in stating, " I won't believe people who say they were anti Iraq war if they don't prove it . ." In fact, I CAN prove I was against the 2003 War, but this thread will not allow me to do so.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Tue Feb 2, 2016, 02:28 PM, and the Jury voted 1-6 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Posts like this will only alienate voters in the General if Hillary wins. However, I cannot find one reason to hide it, since it is posted in the appropriate place.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Pretty weak arguments for hiding, and I don't buy them. Leave it alone.
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: The thread isn't about you, Alerter. The Group isn't about you. Use Trash Thread or Trash Group if you must, but either way move on and avoid the temptation to send time-wasting alerts.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: This is in the Hillary Clinton group. If the HRC group is happy with it, who am I to judge the post. I am banned from posting here, but again this is the Clinton group and only the group members should judge the posts here not a LiberalArkie.

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

gaspee

(3,231 posts)
50. Sorry for not answering until now
Wed Feb 3, 2016, 01:04 PM
Feb 2016

I haven't posted since yesterday because only my old, pretty much unusable laptop has my DU logon and I can't login from the two computers I use most.

I can't remember my password and I have had this account for so long that I no longer have access to the email account I signed up with. I tried changing the password but I need my old password to do it.

I can read DU from my other computers but can't post. Or see hidden posts (because I am not logged in. I am loathe to create a new account - I had a DU account from 2002 until I signed up for this one in 2005 because I did the same thing back then.

It's not a sock puppet because I lost access to the old account and I have always been a low count poster - I tend to read DU every day but only post when I feel really moved to do so.

I will probably be alreted on here too - maybe I can get a password reset out of it, LOL!

Cha

(297,489 posts)
53. I'm sorry you got alerted on gaspee.. and about your computer and your password
Wed Feb 3, 2016, 01:13 PM
Feb 2016

problems. I hope you get it straightened out.

It's ridiculous the way that some people alert just to censor us.. what kind of a community is that?

You can see that 6 people thought it was ridiculous .. it should have been 7-0.

They just didn't like it because you were standing up for Hillary. It's sickening having big brother watching all the time.

Thank you!

 

Ana Hauhet

(67 posts)
52. wow!
Wed Feb 3, 2016, 01:11 PM
Feb 2016

Gaspee! I was wondering what happened to you! I am new here but a DU reader for many years. It was only all the attacks against HRC which surprised me and made me become a member. Glad I found the HRC group to save sanity.

 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
55. Excellent. I don't know if many people supported what Iraq turned out to be.
Wed Feb 3, 2016, 01:41 PM
Feb 2016

But, a lot supported giving george war bush some leverage by authorizing bush to take action IF NEEDED. In fact, I think some of those who voted against the resolution knew it would pass. bush should have used the authority differently.

romana

(765 posts)
57. Speaking of that
Wed Feb 3, 2016, 02:38 PM
Feb 2016

Clinton's Iraq war vote, that is, is it me, or is Clinton held far more accountable for that vote than either Kerry or Edwards were? I was very anti-war and a Dean true believer back in 2004, but I don't remember the scathing hatred directed at them like there is toward Clinton. Maybe I'm wrong about that though, and it was (and still is) there for Kerry.

I made the mistake of reading through the comments on the article that shouts all the stuff Clinton can't, and Clinton was referred to as a butcher, a murderer, responsible for the deaths of thousands of men, women, and children across the globe. We see that mentioned here. Again, I've gone on record as hating that she voted for it, and I had a lot to work through on that to be able to vote for Kerry in the GE in 2004, which may be why I tuned a lot of it out. I was self-examining my own feelings about it, and trying to do my own thinking. It is part of her record, and fair game as far as I'm concerned. It just seems really ratcheted up with respect to her, and I was wondering if others felt the same (hard to evaluate since I'm supporting her).

Here's an interesting article from DailyKos on Clinton's vote, and I've heard Kerry make the same arguments for his vote.

[link: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/5/22/1386838/-Hillary-Clinton-Never-Supported-the-Bush-Cheney-Invasion-of-Iraq|

Ellen Forradalom

(16,160 posts)
61. Good point
Wed Feb 3, 2016, 05:05 PM
Feb 2016

Whenever I hear someone excoriate Hillary for that vote, I am reminded of how the Naderites excoriated Al Gore for voting in favour of Anton Scalia's confirmation to the Supreme Court. In fact the Senate confirmation vote went 98-2. Gore didn't put him on the bench all by himself.

Response to gaspee (Original post)

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