Hillary Clinton
Related: About this forumThe Neverending Tone Deafness of Bernie Sanders
http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2016/2/25/1491492/-The-Neverending-Tone-Deafness-of-Bernie-SandersBy Bravenak
Bernie is probably talking about Oligarchs, I really am just guessing
How tone deaf is Bernie Sanders on race? If we look back through his history in government, we find a much different Bernie than we would find in 1968. Is it his time living in mostly white Vermont that has affected his ability to discuss race in a clear and coherent manner? Or is it the fact that he sees race as a wedge issue, something that distracts from his all important theme of economic inequality? In my opinion, it is a combination of many elements that contribute to his stubborn attachment to shifting from race to poverty, without even demonstrating the shallowest understanding of the intersections that separate them.
We are not all poor. We are not all on welfare. We are not all in jail. So why does Bernie Sanders always pivot from matters of race to matters of poverty and incarceration? Yes, we know they are connected, but they are not the SAME THING. We all know that there are many disparities between the races in almost every walk of life, but what we need in a leader is someone who shows that they can engage us on issues and has a genuine interest in our issues. From OUR perspective.
Let's discuss a few moments of his absolute tone deafness in dealing with black americans. At the Race Forum, Bernie was addressed by a woman whose son was dealing with lung issues from the garbage plant burning near her home. She was visibly frustrated, and accused him of not being able to say 'Black'. Did he empathize? Sympathize? Discuss her son? No! He yelled out, "I said black FIFTY TIMES!", and then proceeded to discuss poverty with this middle class black business owner who wanted to discuss environmental racism. He actually told her what they were GOING to discuss. I suppose he has good reason but, I have no idea how his answer had anything to do with her questions or comments.
At the debate on PBS, he was asked about something he said about race relations on MSNBC, under him versus under Obama, as he had said they would be BETTER under him. His answer seemed odd. Very ODD. Somehow he decided to answer a completely different question than the one asked. It involved taxing millionaires and billionaires to get jobs to poor kids so they 'won't be HANGING on street corners!'. Um? What? Race relations would improve if poor kids were not hanging out on street corners? I tried not to say that black kids hanging on corners did not cause racism, but I couldn't stop myself. Black OR poor kids hanging on street corners does not cause racism, Sir.
(More in link)
rbrnmw
(7,160 posts)Chichiri
(4,667 posts)rbrnmw
(7,160 posts)Treant
(1,968 posts)It's not the first time he's done this...but hopefully it's close to the last in a national forum.
I used to respect him, and even sent him a note a number of years ago for making a stand in the Senate. That respect is now almost completely gone. Whoever encouraged him (I can guess) to run for President should feel very, very ashamed--he's simply not ready for the national stage and never will be.
SunSeeker
(51,574 posts)Cha
(297,323 posts)It good to hear from her perspective how she feels about what sanders is saying and how it affects her.
This is important hearing all different kinds of views.
Thank you, bravenak.. excellent!
brer cat
(24,578 posts)K&R
MADem
(135,425 posts)I see a few familiar names in the discussion following that piece, as well.
I guess that's the new "place?"
I wish the navigation was easier, but I may find myself over there soon too, if things keep on like they are doing here.
MrWendel
(1,881 posts)what I thought they would. The gutless Bernie tinged jury blocked Bravenak's op. Or mine. Not surprised though.
Cha
(297,323 posts)Last edited Fri Feb 26, 2016, 08:17 AM - Edit history (1)
Nevermind, I know.. so sorry.
DemonGoddess
(4,640 posts)Wonderful diary by Bravenak!
Now, as to systemic racism, it certainly exists. Let me just say that the behavior is a LEARNED behavior. My dad, while quite liberal on many things, was a bigot (this was in the 60's primarily). He did eventually evolve from that, but it took him a long time. On the other hand, my mother has always believed that it is the inner qualities of a PERSON that matters, not the color of his or her skin.
As a youngster, because I idolized my dad, I would parrot the racist bs. When I started to grow up, I evolved from that. It made no sense to me to be 1/4 Filipino, and make statements about PoC. After thinking about that quite a bit, I asked my dad (by this time I was in my 30's) if he, perhaps, reacted the way he did for so many years because he was trying to deflect the racist bs away from himself, being half Filipino, and never ever passing for white. In the end, he did agree there was that element. As I said, he evolved in his thinking on racism, race baiting, all of it. I do believe my mother was a huge influence on him with this. I can remember hearing some very heated arguments when I was young, about it. Up to and including my mother pointing out that he wasn't exactly white himself.
The upshot of all this is, is that people can, will, and DO evolve from what I see as exclusive type thinking, to inclusive thinking. I don't see that evolution in Sen. Sanders' replies.
I'm still picking up my jaw from that comment, by the way. About being better on race than Pres. Obama. My jaw may never find its way back to me..
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)Apparently she's touched a nerve.
DemonGoddess
(4,640 posts)will go downhill on her diary. They always do.
yardwork
(61,661 posts)See my post down thread.
72DejaVu
(1,545 posts)Afraid of any opposition.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)We'll see what happens next.
Cha
(297,323 posts)NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)Cha
(297,323 posts)Cha
(297,323 posts)yardwork
(61,661 posts)The alert said that its against DU rules to post by proxy since Bravenak is on time-out.
In my vote to Leave I pointed out that MannyGoldstein, who is PPRed, not just on time-out, is frequently posted by proxy here on DU and in fact there is a pinned thread in his honor in the Bernie Sanders group
This jury has now been out more than 30 minutes.
Cha
(297,323 posts)yardwork
(61,661 posts)I'm furious.
Cha
(297,323 posts)I know I'm furious too.
Tarheel_Dem
(31,235 posts)yardwork
(61,661 posts)Tarheel_Dem
(31,235 posts)yardwork
(61,661 posts)Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)AUTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your Jury Service
Mail Message
On Fri Feb 26, 2016, 06:59 AM an alert was sent on the following post:
The Neverending Tone Deafness of Bernie Sanders
http://www.democraticunderground.com/110756492
REASON FOR ALERT
This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.
ALERTER'S COMMENTS
The author of this piece is on a time out from DU, the op knows this and posted it to circumvent the rules, it was already hidden once but he reposted:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511342677
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=profile&uid=300456
Posters who have their privileges suspended are not allowed to post by proxy, please hide.
You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Fri Feb 26, 2016, 07:37 AM, and the Jury voted 3-4 to LEAVE IT.
Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Stop whining. People post things from banned DUers all the time. This doesn't violate the TOS. It shouldn't be hidden just because you don't like it.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: The material, and viewpoint, posted should not be smothered but part of our open and honest discussion. It would be wrong to do so.
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Oh really? Manny is permanently banned from DU - not just on timeout - and his OPs are often posted here by proxy. Also, there's practically a shrine to him in the BS group. So get over your bad self. There's no rule against this on DU.
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: @Alerter: Someone's "time-out" status on DU really has no bearing on whether or not their writings ELSEWHERE should be censored...especially within the Hillary Group. And what's with this "not allowed to post by proxy" nonsense? DKOS is a legitimate source of information and opinion (supposedly). This alert is absurd on the face of it, and is an abuse of the system.
Juror #7 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.
yardwork
(61,661 posts)Cha
(297,323 posts)It wasn't reposted.. it was cross posted originally. And, it's not against the Rules..
And, what's up about that 3rd waymanny guy who is permanently banned posting on DU?! Is that against the rules. too.. or do they just worry about bravenak and Hillary's Group?
Thank you, Jackie! Lucky jury!
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)... from the ones I've participated in. But THIS TIME, I decided to make an exception BECAUSE the alerter was being deceptive with regard to the rules.
I see that there's a built-in way to alert on a juror's comments (if inappropriate) but IS there a way to alert when someone (or some individuals) are suspected of engaging in alert stalking? --- Or is that just another one of the flaws in the system that Skinner has already acknowledged.
I guess we'll just have to live with it as it is, for now. But... on the bright side (if you squint real hard, you might be able to see it too) it's pretty obvious that NONE of these efforts are actually HELPING their candidate. If their goal is to assist Bernie, then it's not working. Hillary is still right on track to become the nominee!!
OTOH, if their goal is to annoy and pester, then... "Mission Accomplished". But, it won't last much longer. We'll endure and ultimately prevail.
Better days are ahead... just around the corner... they'll be here sooner than you think!
Go, Hillary! We love you!
Cha
(297,323 posts)And what a unique jury that you and yardwork were on to save MrWendel in Hillary's Group and bravenak's diary from getting scrubbed again.
Mahalo for posting the results.. if you were ever going to it.. now is the perfect time.
Bravenak's Diary on Bernie Sanders' Neverending Tone Deafness is Posted in Hillary's Group and they can't take that away.
Yes We Do Love Hillary!
Hillary Clinton Verified account
@HillaryClinton
The feeling is mutual, Nevada.
[font color=blue]Hillary's Group~Gracias~[/font]
mcar
(42,334 posts)I hope TPTB are reading them.
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)noamnety
(20,234 posts)for those interested:
"At one point near the end of the discussion, one panelist faulted Sanders for speaking in generalities, and said he was "afraid to say the word black." Sanders disputed that claim in his response.
"I've said black 50 times," Sanders said. "That was the 51st time."
http://www.citypages.com/news/bernie-sanders-talks-black-america-in-heated-north-minneapolis-forum-8043029
Cha
(297,323 posts)Last edited Fri Feb 26, 2016, 11:23 AM - Edit history (1)
Iliyah
(25,111 posts)The corporate media has always equated welfare, food stamps, uneducated, strapped for cash, violence, and other depraved behavior on the poor, and especially the AA community at large. Forget the fact that "Whites" make up the largest recipients of the welfare programs and violence runs rapid as well.
K & R!
Spazito
(50,375 posts)As usual, bravenak nails it. She may be on a time out here but, if the intent is to silence her, it fails miserably as she reaches a greater number of people than are here with her writing at kos and elsewhere.
Cha
(297,323 posts)It survived a jury in Hillary's Group but it got hidden in gdp.. go figure.
The jury results are posted on this thread.. the alerter lied to the jury.
Spazito
(50,375 posts)disappointed but not surprised. There is NO rule against posting something from someone who's on a timeout who has written on another blog/site and to say there is in an alert is an outright lie for sure.
Cha
(297,323 posts)Spazito
(50,375 posts)UtahLib
(3,179 posts)They can harrass her, misrepresent her intentions, demean, belittle and mock her and she will always come back brighter and stronger.
Cha
(297,323 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)hide. That's disruptive behavior if I ever saw it. That person ought to be permanently prevented from alerting if they're going to lie like that.
Cha
(297,323 posts)Maybe they have... we can find out. thanks for the reminder, MADem
yardwork
(61,661 posts)The Admins will say that perhaps the alerter and voters to hide genuinely believed that it's against DU rules.
And the fact that this was alerted on in the Hillary group will be ignored.
And then I'll probably lose my jury privileges for being a nuisance.
That's how things go around here lately.
Cha
(297,323 posts)ismnotwasm
(41,992 posts)SidDithers
(44,228 posts)Sid
NastyRiffraff
(12,448 posts)Many many kudos to yardwork & Nurse Jackie for their jury work on this! Bravenak is an important voice on DU; it's a damn shame some are trying to silence her. Guess what, folks? It's not working.
Loki
(3,825 posts)reasonable, informative conversation with BS and supporters is a non-starter. Sometimes I think they were in diapers at the time of the 07-08 crash and haven't read any information or even tried to inform themselves on what has happened before they decided that Bernie was their savior. Without a congress behind him, he's just another politician who has grandiose schemes and promises that will never happen. Just like the young woman from BLM. How many of us have been out there working for justice since the Civil Rights Act, and we are still working. It takes more than demanding an apology. It means changing what is systematically wrong and that is a major battle still waiting for us. We have been in the trenches for a very long time. I've lost my ideological rabidness and it's been replaced with a more pragmatic determination. Never let the SOB's see you sweat.
sheshe2
(83,793 posts)Cha
(297,323 posts)Just reading tonight and a KnR.
Lol~ ya 4 hides. 3 tomorrow if I last that long.
Sigh~ I just want to post.
Cha
(297,323 posts)for all of us in the Country/Hillary Dept! Yay!
The jury system is FUBARED, she.. hopefully it gets fixed before all the decent, democratic loving people leave.
And, I don't say that lightly.
sheshe2
(83,793 posts)I just deleted what I said. Mild, yet I fear an alert. They won!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Cha
(297,323 posts)President Obama.. but, I don't think they've won anything.. not in the long run.. not in the big picture, she.
Temporary shit.. that's all they got.
sheshe2
(83,793 posts)I get 2 more hides if I post? I will be out until April.
So, I say little here anymore.
Cha
(297,323 posts)much greener pastures are.
sheshe2
(83,793 posts)Jamaal510
(10,893 posts)Cha
(297,323 posts)hey , Jamaal