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MrWendel

(1,881 posts)
Fri Feb 26, 2016, 02:57 AM Feb 2016

The Neverending Tone Deafness of Bernie Sanders

http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2016/2/25/1491492/-The-Neverending-Tone-Deafness-of-Bernie-Sanders

By Bravenak


Bernie is probably talking about Oligarchs, I really am just guessing

How tone deaf is Bernie Sanders on race? If we look back through his history in government, we find a much different Bernie than we would find in 1968. Is it his time living in mostly white Vermont that has affected his ability to discuss race in a clear and coherent manner? Or is it the fact that he sees race as a wedge issue, something that distracts from his all important theme of economic inequality? In my opinion, it is a combination of many elements that contribute to his stubborn attachment to shifting from race to poverty, without even demonstrating the shallowest understanding of the intersections that separate them.

We are not all poor. We are not all on welfare. We are not all in jail. So why does Bernie Sanders always pivot from matters of race to matters of poverty and incarceration? Yes, we know they are connected, but they are not the SAME THING. We all know that there are many disparities between the races in almost every walk of life, but what we need in a leader is someone who shows that they can engage us on issues and has a genuine interest in our issues. From OUR perspective.

Let's discuss a few moments of his absolute tone deafness in dealing with black americans. At the Race Forum, Bernie was addressed by a woman whose son was dealing with lung issues from the garbage plant burning near her home. She was visibly frustrated, and accused him of not being able to say 'Black'. Did he empathize? Sympathize? Discuss her son? No! He yelled out, "I said black FIFTY TIMES!", and then proceeded to discuss poverty with this middle class black business owner who wanted to discuss environmental racism. He actually told her what they were GOING to discuss. I suppose he has good reason but, I have no idea how his answer had anything to do with her questions or comments.

At the debate on PBS, he was asked about something he said about race relations on MSNBC, under him versus under Obama, as he had said they would be BETTER under him. His answer seemed odd. Very ODD. Somehow he decided to answer a completely different question than the one asked. It involved taxing millionaires and billionaires to get jobs to poor kids so they 'won't be HANGING on street corners!'. Um? What? Race relations would improve if poor kids were not hanging out on street corners? I tried not to say that black kids hanging on corners did not cause racism, but I couldn't stop myself. Black OR poor kids hanging on street corners does not cause racism, Sir.

(More in link)
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The Neverending Tone Deafness of Bernie Sanders (Original Post) MrWendel Feb 2016 OP
thank you for posting this rbrnmw Feb 2016 #1
Darn glad bravenak is still around. nt Chichiri Feb 2016 #2
I posted this in the AfAm group too rbrnmw Feb 2016 #3
Oh, heavens. Treant Feb 2016 #4
K & R SunSeeker Feb 2016 #5
Thank you for posting bravenak's diary @kos in Hill's Group, MrWendel! Cha Feb 2016 #6
Excellent! brer cat Feb 2016 #7
DU's loss is Kos's gain, I guess. MADem Feb 2016 #8
So they did... MrWendel Feb 2016 #9
What do you mean MrWendel? Cha Feb 2016 #10
K&R! DemonGoddess Feb 2016 #11
I'll bet this post will be targeted too. NurseJackie Feb 2016 #12
the comments at dkos DemonGoddess Feb 2016 #13
It was. I'm on the jury, which has been out more than 30 minutes. yardwork Feb 2016 #21
They are cowards 72DejaVu Feb 2016 #14
Speak of the devil ... I just served on the jury. NurseJackie Feb 2016 #15
Oh no.. fingers crossed. Cha Feb 2016 #16
I'll PM you with the results if this thread is hidden. NurseJackie Feb 2016 #18
Okay, Thank you, Jackie~ Cha Feb 2016 #22
I know... their own worst enemies Cha Feb 2016 #17
I was just called to a jury on this and the jury is still out. yardwork Feb 2016 #19
Nurse Jackie is on the jury, too. They're not telling the truth in the alert as usual. Cha Feb 2016 #23
I have to log off DU because otherwise I'll go off. yardwork Feb 2016 #26
You guys won this jury.. thank you! Cha Feb 2016 #29
MannyG was PPR'd? Tarheel_Dem Feb 2016 #37
Uh-huh. yardwork Feb 2016 #48
I need to check my IGGY list from time to time. That's shocking to me. n/t Tarheel_Dem Feb 2016 #49
Freed up a space on my jury blacklist. yardwork Feb 2016 #51
K & R, great article Thinkingabout Feb 2016 #20
JURY RESULTS (I'm surprised, actually.) NurseJackie Feb 2016 #24
I was #4. I'm furious at this alert stalking. yardwork Feb 2016 #25
Wow-Yay!!! You guys did Great! Mahalo!! The alerter flat out lied.. Cha Feb 2016 #27
As a personal "rule," in the past, I've always refrained from posting jury results ... NurseJackie Feb 2016 #30
What a great post, Jackie.. Thank you~Very inspiring. Cha Feb 2016 #31
Some really good juror comments! mcar Feb 2016 #32
K&R Starry Messenger Feb 2016 #28
K&R mcar Feb 2016 #33
Here's the context for his remark noamnety Feb 2016 #34
This is Hillary's Group. Cha Feb 2016 #36
Interesting read. Iliyah Feb 2016 #35
Excellent OP... Spazito Feb 2016 #38
Thank you for that, Spazito! Cha Feb 2016 #39
I'm not surprised it was hidden in GDP... Spazito Feb 2016 #40
Plus they lied that it was "reposted".. they were cross posted. Big Difference. Cha Feb 2016 #41
A very big difference! n/p Spazito Feb 2016 #42
They will never silence her, Cha. UtahLib Feb 2016 #43
Yep.. reminds me of Hillary! Cha Feb 2016 #44
Alert on the jury results and let the admins know that the alerter LIED to the jury to shoot for a MADem Feb 2016 #46
I agree.. that's right. It was yardwork and Nurse Jackie who were on the jury. Cha Feb 2016 #47
I'll be glad to do this but nothing will come of it. yardwork Feb 2016 #50
I know what you mean, yardwork. Cha Feb 2016 #54
K&R ismnotwasm Feb 2016 #45
DU rec for all kinds of reasons...nt SidDithers Feb 2016 #52
K&R! NastyRiffraff Feb 2016 #53
Trying to have an intelligent Loki Feb 2016 #55
K&R! sheshe2 Feb 2016 #56
KICK AGAIN@@@!!!!! Cha Feb 2016 #57
I am tired. sheshe2 Feb 2016 #58
So tomorrow is a good day for you in the dropping off a hide dept.. and a good day Cha Feb 2016 #59
Well sad to say few will be here. sheshe2 Feb 2016 #60
yeah, they have us walking on eggshells because WE want be able to post for Hillary and Cha Feb 2016 #61
As I said I will be down to 3 tomorrow. It should have been 1. sheshe2 Feb 2016 #62
It better be temporary.. If not then we know where Cha Feb 2016 #64
All of you can talk here and I can't. sheshe2 Feb 2016 #65
K&R Jamaal510 Feb 2016 #63
KICK BACK UP! Cha Feb 2016 #66

Treant

(1,968 posts)
4. Oh, heavens.
Fri Feb 26, 2016, 03:15 AM
Feb 2016

It's not the first time he's done this...but hopefully it's close to the last in a national forum.

I used to respect him, and even sent him a note a number of years ago for making a stand in the Senate. That respect is now almost completely gone. Whoever encouraged him (I can guess) to run for President should feel very, very ashamed--he's simply not ready for the national stage and never will be.

Cha

(297,323 posts)
6. Thank you for posting bravenak's diary @kos in Hill's Group, MrWendel!
Fri Feb 26, 2016, 03:27 AM
Feb 2016

It good to hear from her perspective how she feels about what sanders is saying and how it affects her.

This is important hearing all different kinds of views.

Thank you, bravenak.. excellent!

MADem

(135,425 posts)
8. DU's loss is Kos's gain, I guess.
Fri Feb 26, 2016, 07:10 AM
Feb 2016

I see a few familiar names in the discussion following that piece, as well.

I guess that's the new "place?"

I wish the navigation was easier, but I may find myself over there soon too, if things keep on like they are doing here.

MrWendel

(1,881 posts)
9. So they did...
Fri Feb 26, 2016, 07:28 AM
Feb 2016

what I thought they would. The gutless Bernie tinged jury blocked Bravenak's op. Or mine. Not surprised though.

DemonGoddess

(4,640 posts)
11. K&R!
Fri Feb 26, 2016, 07:52 AM
Feb 2016

Wonderful diary by Bravenak!

Now, as to systemic racism, it certainly exists. Let me just say that the behavior is a LEARNED behavior. My dad, while quite liberal on many things, was a bigot (this was in the 60's primarily). He did eventually evolve from that, but it took him a long time. On the other hand, my mother has always believed that it is the inner qualities of a PERSON that matters, not the color of his or her skin.

As a youngster, because I idolized my dad, I would parrot the racist bs. When I started to grow up, I evolved from that. It made no sense to me to be 1/4 Filipino, and make statements about PoC. After thinking about that quite a bit, I asked my dad (by this time I was in my 30's) if he, perhaps, reacted the way he did for so many years because he was trying to deflect the racist bs away from himself, being half Filipino, and never ever passing for white. In the end, he did agree there was that element. As I said, he evolved in his thinking on racism, race baiting, all of it. I do believe my mother was a huge influence on him with this. I can remember hearing some very heated arguments when I was young, about it. Up to and including my mother pointing out that he wasn't exactly white himself.

The upshot of all this is, is that people can, will, and DO evolve from what I see as exclusive type thinking, to inclusive thinking. I don't see that evolution in Sen. Sanders' replies.

I'm still picking up my jaw from that comment, by the way. About being better on race than Pres. Obama. My jaw may never find its way back to me..

yardwork

(61,661 posts)
19. I was just called to a jury on this and the jury is still out.
Fri Feb 26, 2016, 08:35 AM
Feb 2016

The alert said that its against DU rules to post by proxy since Bravenak is on time-out.

In my vote to Leave I pointed out that MannyGoldstein, who is PPRed, not just on time-out, is frequently posted by proxy here on DU and in fact there is a pinned thread in his honor in the Bernie Sanders group

This jury has now been out more than 30 minutes.

NurseJackie

(42,862 posts)
24. JURY RESULTS (I'm surprised, actually.)
Fri Feb 26, 2016, 08:39 AM
Feb 2016

AUTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your Jury Service

Mail Message
On Fri Feb 26, 2016, 06:59 AM an alert was sent on the following post:

The Neverending Tone Deafness of Bernie Sanders
http://www.democraticunderground.com/110756492

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

The author of this piece is on a time out from DU, the op knows this and posted it to circumvent the rules, it was already hidden once but he reposted:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511342677

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=profile&uid=300456

Posters who have their privileges suspended are not allowed to post by proxy, please hide.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Fri Feb 26, 2016, 07:37 AM, and the Jury voted 3-4 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Stop whining. People post things from banned DUers all the time. This doesn't violate the TOS. It shouldn't be hidden just because you don't like it.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: The material, and viewpoint, posted should not be smothered but part of our open and honest discussion. It would be wrong to do so.
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Oh really? Manny is permanently banned from DU - not just on timeout - and his OPs are often posted here by proxy. Also, there's practically a shrine to him in the BS group. So get over your bad self. There's no rule against this on DU.
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: @Alerter: Someone's "time-out" status on DU really has no bearing on whether or not their writings ELSEWHERE should be censored...especially within the Hillary Group. And what's with this "not allowed to post by proxy" nonsense? DKOS is a legitimate source of information and opinion (supposedly). This alert is absurd on the face of it, and is an abuse of the system.
Juror #7 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

Cha

(297,323 posts)
27. Wow-Yay!!! You guys did Great! Mahalo!! The alerter flat out lied..
Fri Feb 26, 2016, 08:48 AM
Feb 2016

It wasn't reposted.. it was cross posted originally. And, it's not against the Rules..

And, what's up about that 3rd waymanny guy who is permanently banned posting on DU?! Is that against the rules. too.. or do they just worry about bravenak and Hillary's Group?

Thank you, Jackie! Lucky jury!

NurseJackie

(42,862 posts)
30. As a personal "rule," in the past, I've always refrained from posting jury results ...
Fri Feb 26, 2016, 09:00 AM
Feb 2016

... from the ones I've participated in. But THIS TIME, I decided to make an exception BECAUSE the alerter was being deceptive with regard to the rules.

I see that there's a built-in way to alert on a juror's comments (if inappropriate) but IS there a way to alert when someone (or some individuals) are suspected of engaging in alert stalking? --- Or is that just another one of the flaws in the system that Skinner has already acknowledged.

I guess we'll just have to live with it as it is, for now. But... on the bright side (if you squint real hard, you might be able to see it too) it's pretty obvious that NONE of these efforts are actually HELPING their candidate. If their goal is to assist Bernie, then it's not working. Hillary is still right on track to become the nominee!!

OTOH, if their goal is to annoy and pester, then... "Mission Accomplished". But, it won't last much longer. We'll endure and ultimately prevail.

Better days are ahead... just around the corner... they'll be here sooner than you think!

Go, Hillary! We love you!

Cha

(297,323 posts)
31. What a great post, Jackie.. Thank you~Very inspiring.
Fri Feb 26, 2016, 09:23 AM
Feb 2016

And what a unique jury that you and yardwork were on to save MrWendel in Hillary's Group and bravenak's diary from getting scrubbed again.

Mahalo for posting the results.. if you were ever going to it.. now is the perfect time.

Bravenak's Diary on Bernie Sanders' Neverending Tone Deafness is Posted in Hillary's Group and they can't take that away.

Yes We Do Love Hillary!


Hillary Clinton Verified account 
@HillaryClinton
The feeling is mutual, Nevada.

[font color=blue]Hillary's Group~Gracias~[/font]

 

noamnety

(20,234 posts)
34. Here's the context for his remark
Fri Feb 26, 2016, 09:51 AM
Feb 2016

for those interested:

"At one point near the end of the discussion, one panelist faulted Sanders for speaking in generalities, and said he was "afraid to say the word black." Sanders disputed that claim in his response.

"I've said black 50 times," Sanders said. "That was the 51st time."

http://www.citypages.com/news/bernie-sanders-talks-black-america-in-heated-north-minneapolis-forum-8043029

Iliyah

(25,111 posts)
35. Interesting read.
Fri Feb 26, 2016, 09:57 AM
Feb 2016

The corporate media has always equated welfare, food stamps, uneducated, strapped for cash, violence, and other depraved behavior on the poor, and especially the AA community at large. Forget the fact that "Whites" make up the largest recipients of the welfare programs and violence runs rapid as well.

K & R!

Spazito

(50,375 posts)
38. Excellent OP...
Fri Feb 26, 2016, 10:59 AM
Feb 2016

As usual, bravenak nails it. She may be on a time out here but, if the intent is to silence her, it fails miserably as she reaches a greater number of people than are here with her writing at kos and elsewhere.

Cha

(297,323 posts)
39. Thank you for that, Spazito!
Fri Feb 26, 2016, 11:17 AM
Feb 2016

It survived a jury in Hillary's Group but it got hidden in gdp.. go figure.

The jury results are posted on this thread.. the alerter lied to the jury.

Spazito

(50,375 posts)
40. I'm not surprised it was hidden in GDP...
Fri Feb 26, 2016, 11:45 AM
Feb 2016

disappointed but not surprised. There is NO rule against posting something from someone who's on a timeout who has written on another blog/site and to say there is in an alert is an outright lie for sure.

UtahLib

(3,179 posts)
43. They will never silence her, Cha.
Fri Feb 26, 2016, 12:04 PM
Feb 2016

They can harrass her, misrepresent her intentions, demean, belittle and mock her and she will always come back brighter and stronger.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
46. Alert on the jury results and let the admins know that the alerter LIED to the jury to shoot for a
Fri Feb 26, 2016, 12:38 PM
Feb 2016

hide. That's disruptive behavior if I ever saw it. That person ought to be permanently prevented from alerting if they're going to lie like that.

Cha

(297,323 posts)
47. I agree.. that's right. It was yardwork and Nurse Jackie who were on the jury.
Fri Feb 26, 2016, 12:50 PM
Feb 2016

Maybe they have... we can find out. thanks for the reminder, MADem

yardwork

(61,661 posts)
50. I'll be glad to do this but nothing will come of it.
Fri Feb 26, 2016, 04:29 PM
Feb 2016

The Admins will say that perhaps the alerter and voters to hide genuinely believed that it's against DU rules.

And the fact that this was alerted on in the Hillary group will be ignored.

And then I'll probably lose my jury privileges for being a nuisance.

That's how things go around here lately.

NastyRiffraff

(12,448 posts)
53. K&R!
Fri Feb 26, 2016, 07:58 PM
Feb 2016

Many many kudos to yardwork & Nurse Jackie for their jury work on this! Bravenak is an important voice on DU; it's a damn shame some are trying to silence her. Guess what, folks? It's not working.

Loki

(3,825 posts)
55. Trying to have an intelligent
Fri Feb 26, 2016, 08:31 PM
Feb 2016

reasonable, informative conversation with BS and supporters is a non-starter. Sometimes I think they were in diapers at the time of the 07-08 crash and haven't read any information or even tried to inform themselves on what has happened before they decided that Bernie was their savior. Without a congress behind him, he's just another politician who has grandiose schemes and promises that will never happen. Just like the young woman from BLM. How many of us have been out there working for justice since the Civil Rights Act, and we are still working. It takes more than demanding an apology. It means changing what is systematically wrong and that is a major battle still waiting for us. We have been in the trenches for a very long time. I've lost my ideological rabidness and it's been replaced with a more pragmatic determination. Never let the SOB's see you sweat.

sheshe2

(83,793 posts)
58. I am tired.
Sat Feb 27, 2016, 12:38 AM
Feb 2016

Just reading tonight and a KnR.

Lol~ ya 4 hides. 3 tomorrow if I last that long.

Sigh~ I just want to post.

Cha

(297,323 posts)
59. So tomorrow is a good day for you in the dropping off a hide dept.. and a good day
Sat Feb 27, 2016, 12:56 AM
Feb 2016

for all of us in the Country/Hillary Dept! Yay!

The jury system is FUBARED, she.. hopefully it gets fixed before all the decent, democratic loving people leave.

And, I don't say that lightly.

sheshe2

(83,793 posts)
60. Well sad to say few will be here.
Sat Feb 27, 2016, 01:26 AM
Feb 2016

I just deleted what I said. Mild, yet I fear an alert. They won!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Cha

(297,323 posts)
61. yeah, they have us walking on eggshells because WE want be able to post for Hillary and
Sat Feb 27, 2016, 01:39 AM
Feb 2016

President Obama.. but, I don't think they've won anything.. not in the long run.. not in the big picture, she.

Temporary shit.. that's all they got.

sheshe2

(83,793 posts)
62. As I said I will be down to 3 tomorrow. It should have been 1.
Sat Feb 27, 2016, 02:13 AM
Feb 2016

I get 2 more hides if I post? I will be out until April.

So, I say little here anymore.

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