If You read nothing else today...READ THIS!

[BooScout]

http://www.salon.com/2016/03/03/my_gen_x_hillary_problem_i_know_why_we_dont_like_clinton/

[quote][font size="4"]My Gen X Hillary problem: I know why we don’t “like” Clinton[/font]

As a young woman, I idealized Bill but scorned Hillary's supporters; at 43, I see this preference for what it was

As many a news outlet has told us, women over 45 are supporting Hillary, and those under 45 are feeling the Bern. On the dividing line lies Generation X. (Remember us? People used to care about us.) At 43, I fall more or less right into the statistical middle and I’ve acted accordingly. Up until a few weeks ago, I supported Bernie for president, but I felt slightly guilty doing so. The man is passionate, his vision for the future is exciting, and he seems like a super-smart, slightly off-kilter uncle who would liven up Thanksgiving. He’s Bernie! We love Bernie. Also, we’re beyond needing to support a woman simply because she’s a woman. I should vote for the candidate who feels right to me. And that candidate happens to be a man.

Also, I’d never been much of a Hillary fan. She seemed fine: When she first came onto the national stage in 1992, she came across as the type of wife you’d hope someone like Bill Clinton would have. She had her own successful career. She was raising a daughter who was going through the same awkward stage I’d gone through only a few years earlier. She was the type of person I expected to grow up to be – a working mother who wore suits, supported herself financially, and had an equal say in her marriage – why would I expect anything else? My understanding was that the bad old days were behind us (Fleetwood Mac was being played on a continuous loop that year, after all. And at college we were insisting on being called women, not girls! We were marching to take back the night! ) and that I, as a woman, would get to have whatever life I chose for myself.

But even though I had no objections to Hillary, I’d found her fans extremely off-putting. In 1992, as a summer intern with the Clinton campaign’s polling firm, I traveled to New York City for the Democratic convention. I didn’t have a badge to get inside Madison Square Garden, so I spent many hours walking around the perimeter and watching people. And I quickly identified a certain kind of woman at the convention who I actively disliked: the rabid Hillary supporter. These women were covered in buttons that read “Hillary’s husband for President” and “A woman’s place is in the House and the Senate.” (Notably absent from that button: the Oval Office.) They would talk your ear off about how they were voting for Bill because they loved Hillary. But I didn’t get it. They felt like a throwback to another era, as though Hillary was the woman they’d dreamed of during their consciousness-raising sessions, before the vagina mirrors came out.

We were beyond those battles now. People let us wear pants. We could get mortgages without needing our father or husband to sign for them. Help wanted ads in the paper were no longer divided by gender. No one was rejecting us from law school because they already had enough women. I knew that if someone in a meeting asked me to get coffee I’d tell them to get their own damn coffee and feel pretty good doing it. As a college student I hadn’t yet participated in a meeting, but I felt fairly certain that this would be how things would go. I was living in a coed dorm, after all. I’d seen the guy three doors down walk through the hall in his purple underwear. I was a citizen of a brave new post-sexist nation, which was nothing like the eras my mother or grandmother had inhabited.

(more) - Please read the entire article at the link...it's important: http://www.salon.com/2016/03/03/my_gen_x_hillary_problem_i_know_why_we_dont_like_clinton/ [/quote]

[livetohike]

1. Everyone please read the whole article. I suspected the same conclusion as the

author. 👍

[BooScout]

2. I'm a few years older than the author...

I'm a Baby Boomer. This is why I 'got' Hillary so much earlier than this woman did. This woman just basically described much of the circumstances of my own career and experiences. Subtle sexism and misogyny is so much more dangerous than blatant sexism and misogyny. With blatant, we get to call it out.....with subtle.....it's so much more insidious and difficult to get people to understand and believe us.

[spooky3]

7. Me too. Everyone, please read it. The author does a GREAT

job of describing the daily subtle, dishonest, masking of sexist actions, such as refusing to consider the author's consulting service after seeming to praise her for running the business "all by herself."

[Hekate]

38. I'm in your age cohort, and I was primed to internalize all of it

With the author -- well, age and experience, as they say. I'm glad she figured it out.

[BooScout]

40. I almost didn't read it past the first couple of paragraphs....

I am so glad I read through it all.

[Treant]

3. Even as a male Gen X-er

I agree with her. I'm used to my early-Boomer mother running a construction company. I'm used to the looks and comments she used to get (and used to her response, which is not printable here--she has a mouth like a sailor when she wants to).

I'm also rather fortunate in that I'm used to women being in places where "they shouldn't" and doing things "they shouldn't." It doesn't blip on my radar because I saw it every day of my life.

[Trust Buster]

4. Thank you for posting that excellent article.

[Arkansas Granny]

5. Excellent article. K&R.

[SecularMotion]

6. Electing Hillary as President is the true revolution.

Thanks for sharing this BooScout

[Nitram]

8. Excellent article.

" I’ve lived through enough to understand that if Hillary were a man she’d be the front-runner hands-down."

Look at Clinton's experience, education, and qualifications and there is no doubt the statement above is true. Of course, Hillary Derangement Syndrome plays a role too, on both the right and the left.

[Ligyron]

9. OK, read the article

and while it was easy to see why the author feels the way she does, she is basically saying she supporting Hillary because she is an empowered woman who has had to put up with a lot of shit - just like every other woman who's made it has had to suffer through.

I'm not sure that's a great way to choose a presidential candidate.

The author says nothing about how she supports HRC's economic policies, admires her skills at diplomacy, respects her knowledge of foreign affairs and values her personal relationships with significant foreign dignitaries, etc.

Plus, she finds Hillary supporters of be annoying and doesn't even have a cookie recipe.

I don't get it

[BlueMTexpat]

16. Could it be possible that you just ,,,don't

"get" it because you are a male who has never experienced any of the same subtle sexism ... and never will?

[hopeforchange2008]

23. Hillary's done enough on her own to cause both men and women to turn away

Denying that she has issues doesn't make them go away. If a man had done similar, I - a 54 yr old woman - would be just as opposed to him.

If she's the candidate in the GE, I'll hold my nose and vote for her, but we have an opportunity to put forth a better candidate, and it has nothing to do with gender.

[UtahLib]

28. Many are and will be

challenging your assertion that BS is the better candidate. I hold my nose every time I listen to his tone deaf stump speech.

[hopeforchange2008]

31. It sounds like you'd be better off plugging your ears

However, that doesn't have anything to do with Hillary's issues.

[UtahLib]

32. I suggest you concentrate

on Bernie's issues with the Democratic minority voters. Ignoring or marginalizing certain voters and certain states demonstrates a true lack of foresight. I suspect that he would continue to ignore , to the detriment of this country, the concerns of those who aren't supporting him. Now, I will remind you that you are in the Hillary group and suggest that you have more than enough space on this board without invading our space.

[hopeforchange2008]

34. I realized after posting that this is the Hillary forum

Last edited Thu Mar 3, 2016, 06:53 PM - Edit history (1)

My bad. I forgot that speaking frankly about Hillary is forbidden here.

[UtahLib]

36. As is doubly true, concerning the many faults of Bernie, in the BS group

[Cha]

48. Exactly, Utah.. and they are now gone from this group.

[SharonClark]

41. Glad you finally realized you are in the Hillary Group

Now respect the difference between Groups and Forums and delete this post.

[Cha]

47. Don't act like speaking frankly about BS is not forbidden in that group.

[AirmensMom]

11. Ok, I read it.

There are a lot of reasons I don't like Hillary and not one of them has to do with her gender. I am almost 60 years old, so I should be in her demographic. My vote for her, if she is the nominee, will be with my nose held tightly. As much as I dislike her, she is better than anyone the Republicans are running, especially that buffoon Trump, and I never have and never will vote Republican. Yes, I have raised a family and had a career. I know all about how women get treated. I would love to see a woman become president in my lifetime. Not this one. I think people who would have voted for Bernie in November will stay home if she is the nominee. I do not believe it's because they are sore losers. Not everyone understands or cares about the consequences of having a President Trump and won't make an effort for Hillary. A "lesser of the two evils" vote just isn't inspiring for many. I hope I'm wrong.

[Zambero]

14. One can only hope

that the number of Bernie supporters sitting out the November election on the basis of a HRC-fronted Democratic ticket will be exceeded by others passing on the likes of Donald Trump. If not, we could be in for a very rough ride.

[Her Sister]

21. Voting for HRC! I find it inspiring!!

I suspect many are inspired too!

[SharonClark]

42. This is the Hillary Group

You do know the difference between a Group and a Forum? Then delete this post.

[GusBob]

12. That gum-chewing idiot from the town hall pissed me off too

so condescending

If he was our son, well there wouldn't be much left of his boorish ill-mannered ass after Mrs Gusbob whooped it. But I would text him every day: you go out in public today, you better act like a gentleman

Everytime I picture a Berniebro in my mind, its him.

its weird how seminal moments in a campaign can stick out in your mind. The dickish Berniebro at the town hall, how SBS reacted to the BLM protest

Life is like that I guess, you never get a second chance to make a first impression

thanks for the read Boo

[BooScout]

13. I knew exactly who she was talking about...

I recognize that guy in so many people I ran across in my own career.

[Her Sister]

22. Totally agree!!

"Then a few weeks ago I heard a clip on the radio of a young man questioning Clinton at a town hall meeting in Iowa. “I’ve heard from quite a few people my age that they think you’re dishonest,” he said. “But I’d like to hear from you on why you think the enthusiasm isn’t there.”

It was subtle, but there was something in his tone I recognized. It was not a tone you would use to speak to someone who was a former secretary of state and senator. It was the tone you reserve for that dumb chick in your meeting who probably doesn’t know what she’s talking about. It was a tone I’d heard countless times over the course of my career, and in that moment I suddenly saw Hillary Clinton in an entirely different light."


She only heard him on the radio, I saw him on TV. His look so glum, full of himself.

[book_worm]

15. Excellent article

[Her Sister]

17. I am Gen X

and have always been for both Clintons. I was for HRC in 2008. I am now! I knew and lived what happened in the 1990's. I saw how the Clintons were treated. I knew not to buy the negative propaganda against them. I am a female veteran, served during Desert storm. My first vote was for BClinton.

I am with her! for many reasons.

[Cha]

18. Thank you for posting this, Boo!

I'm too tired to read it right now.. it's now 4:15am..

Everyone likes it.. that's great! I'll read it tomorrow when I can concentrate better.

Those two intruders are gone btw.

[mcar]

19. Excellent read!

[yallerdawg]

20. It is time to end the establishment status quo!

It is time to complete the historic 'quiet revolution'!

NOW is the time!

And I know that until the world sees what it looks like for this country to have a female president, we’re going to forever be finding reasons not to vote for one. I’m done finding those reasons. I’m voting for Hillary.

[Peace Patriot]

24. I'm a 70 yr old woman and a strong Bernie Sanders supporters.

Last edited Thu Mar 3, 2016, 03:35 PM - Edit history (1)

I'm also a lifelong Democratic supporter, voter and activist. Campaigned for JFK and the first CA Governor Brown in 1960, when I was 16.

I've been through quite a lot, as to being a woman from the 1960s through 2016. I won't go into it here, though, because I find this obsession with self...this I, I, I, that I hear from Hillary and that suffuses this OP article to be incredibly myopic, when the lives of so many women and children, here and abroad, have been outright destroyed by Clinton policy, and in the case of the Iraq War, slaughtered by the tens of thousands; in the case of Libya and Syria, raped, slaughtered, permanently displaced; in the case of Honduras, leftist women raped and beaten in prison, thousands fired from jobs for their objection to the military coup that Clinton supported, thousands of children adversely affected; and, here at home, millions of women suffering poverty due to cruel Clinton welfare policy, especially black women; millions of black men in prison, lives, families, communities devastated, due to the Clintons' corrupt, murderous, failed "war on drugs" and mass incarceration policies; also thousands of women lost their homes, jobs, dignity, in the Crash of '08, which was caused in part by Bill Clinton's axing of the New Deal law that regulated banks and speculators (Glass-Steagall), and millions of jobs lost to NAFTA and "free trade for the rich," destroying communities across America, and badly affecting women workers and mothers and children in particular, as well as men.

Hillary Clinton is receiving money from numerous big corporations that benefited from all of the above.

I also find it extremely obnoxious that Hillary Clinton has Henry Kissinger as a friend and adviser. I lived through the slaughter of millions in Southeast Asia and the deaths of almost 60,000 U.S. soldiers. I protested it vigorously, along with millions of others, to no avail. Like Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld, this war criminal is still running free. It's as if Clinton had two Rumsfeld's as adviser! He killed more than Rumsfeld! And he also supported regimes in Latin America that threw leftist women and men out of airplanes to their deaths, who tortured and murdered thousands, and who took the babies of imprisoned pregnant leftist women away from them, killed the mother and gave the babies away to fascist families.

My personal story is important to me, of course. And, in fact, because of it, I do have sympathy for Hillary Clinton as a woman and as a human being. But her economic policy and foreign policy are extremely detrimental to women in particular. She enthusiastically supported every policy of Bill's that harmed women in particular, and has now done many things as a senator and sec of state that have brought horror to women's lives. And she has become very, very corrupt.

She represents the 1% in all of their various kinds of ruination and destruction of other peoples' lives.

To vote for Hillary because you've experienced sexism at the office, and you sympathize with Hillary because you think she must be suffering from sexism, too--as the OP author states, in an annoyingly self-centered article--is so cold or so uninformed that it makes me cringe for the author. Is this what feminism has become--this oblivious self-involvement?

[Peace Patriot]

25. Hillary Clinton endorsed by Robert Kagan, founder of PNAC!

Does Hana Schank even know what PNAC is?

Please read this thread, starting around Comment #83:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511402280

[Princess Turandot]

29. This is the HRC Group. Please take your condemnation of her to GDP, and delete this out of civility.

[Peace Patriot]

37. And how about THIS woman? Berta Cáceres assassinated today in Honduras.

Breaking: Honduran Indigenous Leader Berta Cáceres Assassinated, Won Goldman Environmental Prize
March 03, 2016

Honduran indigenous and environmental organizer Berta Cáceres has been assassinated in her home. She was one of the leading organizers for indigenous land rights in Honduras.

In 1993 she co-founded the National Council of Popular and Indigenous Organizations of Honduras (COPINH). For years the group faced a series of threats and repression.

According to Global Witness, Honduras has become the deadliest country in the world for environmentalists. Between 2010 and 2014, 101 environmental campaigners were killed in the country.

In 2015 Berta Cáceres won the Goldman Environmental Prize, the world’s leading environmental award. In awarding the prize, the Goldman Prize committee said, “In a country with growing socioeconomic inequality and human rights violations, Berta Cáceres rallied the indigenous Lenca people of Honduras and waged a grassroots campaign that successfully pressured the world’s largest dam builder to pull out of the Agua Zarca Dam.”

http://www.democraticunderground.com/102411266

Please address my question. What about THIS woman? Does Hillary Clinton's support for the fascist coup in Honduras have nothing at all to do with the fascist death squads in Honduras--in your opinion?

I am a woman, too, been fighting against sexism all my life. I once supported Hillary Clinton and still have sympathy for her as a woman and as a human being. But I see connections between Clinton's actions as Sec of State and this horrifying death--not direct, of course, but as the result of a policy that unleashed the death squads in Honduras against entirely innocent, activist women such as this: Berta Cáceres.

What I see in the OP-linked article is obliviousness to the fate of women like Berta Cáceres, who die as a consequence of U.S. support for those who wanted her dead. To be concerned ONLY about feminist issues in your own life, to be so wrapped up in yourself, that you don't even SEE this, strikes me as obliviousness. You can be FOR Hillary and still be concerned about this, and maybe even raise the issue with her.

I see too much, and I can't support her. But you and other Hillary supporters could do some good by expressing your concern and at least asking questions. Berta Cáceres' life is at least worth a question, a raising of the issue. It might save some other woman's life, if Clinton were to express sorrow at this death. She has power and clout in Honduras. She could conceivably stop this kind of violence.

Take a look at Berta Cáceres' photo at the link above. Read of her amazing accomplishments. Is this woman's life not worth a question?

[SharonClark]

43. This is the Hillary Group

Please respect the difference between a Group and a Forum and delete this post.

[Iliyah]

26. K & R

[Starry Messenger]

27. I was just saying this to obamanut the other day.

I went to a small arts college that was 80% women--if you'd asked me about sexism then, I could have pointed to one or two incidences, but it wasn't my biggest issue. After 25 years in the work-force, it's much more front and center.

The cookies incident from 1992 really stuck out for me then too, although I was disinterested in politics at the time, the backlash that went on and on from that in the media is still a memory that I have.

[UtahLib]

30. Thank you for the great read.

So many intruders spouting their anti Hillary screed in this thread posted in the Hillary group is indicative of the paternalistic attitude of many Americans. Can't wait to see Hillary break that ceiling!!

[Spazito]

33. Excellent OP!

Very good read, thanks for posting it!

[Hekate]

35. Fantastic article.

I'm having a devil of a time reading all the way to the end because the page keeps crashing and reloading, but it is a great article.

Where do all the business women in their 30s go, indeed. And "I'm just an awkward old maid" Janet Reno was the only woman who could "qualify" to be Attorney General back then.

I remember the study of gender pay equity that concluded that career women earned as much as men if, and only if, they never married or had children. Thanks guys, just effing thanks.

I remember the study I read in a Professional journal at my sister's house on why more girls weren't in the computer labs in middle school and high school, and thus in the computer professions 10 years later. For one thing, boys have sharp elbows, and at that age lab hours should probably be doled out by gender. But the thing that really stuck with me is this: all through school K-12, the default student is a boy. I won't go into details, although the author did, but it was...enlightening.

This author is right in what she implies, imo: you start out believing the laws of physics (so to speak) don't apply to you, but enough time and experience, and finally it dawns on you.

[Hekate]

39. Speaking of women in high places: the 3 SCOTUS women are speaking out strongly...

...on the Texas abortion law. That was the headline in this morning's LA Times, and as I read on I not only felt pride in them, but so relieved that we now have 1/3 of Court members to whom women's health care needs are not an abstract theory but a lived experience.

[SharonClark]

45. So true for so many women

[Tarheel_Dem]

46. An excellent read! n/t