Hillary Clinton
Related: About this forumThe most definitive article to date: Vatican: Pope Didn't Invite Bernie Sanders
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/04/10/vatican-pope-didn-t-invite-bernie-sanders.htmlOn Friday, Democratic presidential hopeful Bernie Sanders announced that he was very excited about having just received an invitation to speak at a small, invitation-only scholarly conference at the Vaticans Pontifical Academy of Social Sciences conference celebrating the 25th year anniversary of an encyclical Centesimus Annus, written by Pope John Paul II on the evils of capitalism.
Francis is not expected to attend the conference, which will take place April 15 and 16 with around 30 participants, including Bolivian president Evo Morales and Ecuadorian president Rafael Correa. Francis will be traveling to Lesbos, Greece, on the 16th to shed light on the Syrian refugee crisis there.
The Vatican spokesman Father Federico Lombardi told The Daily Beast that it wasnt the pope who personally invited the politician. The invitation was made on behalf of the Pontifical Academy of Social Sciences, not by Pope Francis, he said. There is no expectation that the pope will meet Mr. Sanders. He then added that he could not completely exclude the possibility, but that nothing was on the agenda at the moment.
...
Sorondo later toned down his initial comments telling CNN the invitation should not be seen as an endorsement of the senators nomination. It does not signify any support of the campaign," Sorondo said. "We want to establish a dialogue between North America and South America so we thought to invite a [U.S.] politician. The President of Bolivia will also be there. Perhaps the others (candidates) would have been interested but they did not request to come."
He also confirmed to CNN that Sanders had reached out to the Vatican first. He has expressed an interest many times in the Pope's encyclical and it's clear that he has an interest in studying it, Sorondo said. It might have that effect, but we are not looking to support the campaign."
Confirmation from the Academy that a) Bernie (or a surrogate) reached out first and b) requested to attend.
Evo Morales: http://www.plenglish.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=4768431&Itemid=1
Rafael Correa: http://www.telesurtv.net/english/news/Ecuador-Rally-Defends-Reform-and-Correa-Against-Anti-Tax-March-20160407-0039.html
More: John Oliver and Correa: http://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino/comedian-john-oliver-rattles-ecuadors-president-rafael-correa-n307641
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I will post no more on this subject.
Her Sister
(6,444 posts)Embarrassing! Well, done!!
liberal N proud
(60,335 posts)It will not keep the $ers from propagating tell misinformation
Her Sister
(6,444 posts)A conference few people heard about??/ Excuse me but this was announced on The View by BS himself and the show's hostesses.
BlueMTexpat
(15,369 posts)robbedvoter
(28,290 posts)It's not as if politics is such a strange notion to them. Just democracy seems to be.
Surya Gayatri
(15,445 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)I don't blame Bernie for being a bit hornswoggled, but he should have done a bit more due diligence on how the issue would be perceived.
His PR team should have reached out to the PA team--AND The Vatican offices of the Pontiff (assuming he wanted to meet Himself). And that should have happened before he went on TV giggling about how "The POPE" invited him to "The Vatican."
If he thinks the imagery of himself, Correa and Morales is going to be some kind of resonating and iconic thing, he just Did Not Think It Through.
And if he thinks that Francis--or Margaret Archer--are going to be happy that he stunk up the PA conference with "politicking" he'd probably best think again.
This whole thing is in Crash and (LOL) "Bern" territory at this stage of the game. It's the best thing that could have happened to Clinton, though, so I am not displeased. It takes BS OFF the campaign trail for three or four days at least, at a critical time. It's not going to help him with American Catholics who
a. Don't like to be played
b. The conservative ones are GOP, the liberal ones like this Pope's attempts at liberalization ... and don't like seeing him blindsided.
There is a tiny window of opportunity for BS to meet the Pope, but he's going to Lesbos to be with the refugees, so he's going to have to squeeze it in on day 1, if he can find a red eye plane leaving right after the debate...!!
And this??? HILARIOUS!!!!!!!! You'll have to watch on YT, but funny....
BlueMTexpat
(15,369 posts)when John Oliver (many thanks to the UK for sending him over here!) got involved in a "feud" with Correa.
sheshe2
(83,787 posts)PatV
(71 posts)surprising.
Cha
(297,287 posts)see the Pope? "Yup"..
That's the reality and you can try to spin it anyways into the next decade but BS only made himself look bad.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Because that's a bonkers thing for a US pol in an election campaign to do.
BlueMTexpat
(15,369 posts)for anyone who considers that Church and State should be separate. Which I do. Which The Founders did.
okasha
(11,573 posts)Maybe a seminar of a couple dozen half-smashed linguists camped out on San Antonio's River Walk and debating whether mass media will hinder the development of "Tex-Mex" into a a full blown language separate from both English and Spanish.
Lucinda
(31,170 posts)riversedge
(70,242 posts)Cha
(297,287 posts)Bleacher Creature
(11,257 posts)I'm still picking up my jaw from hearing him try and blame the Washington Post for his "unqualified" remark.
I mean, the Post has been churning out misleading headlines for years, but how does a guy running for President openly admit that he doesn't read beyond the headlines?
riversedge
(70,242 posts)otohara
(24,135 posts)for truth!
DemonGoddess
(4,640 posts)Knew it!
DesertRat
(27,995 posts)jmowreader
(50,559 posts)...it's right here.
http://w2.vatican.va/content/john-paul-ii/en/encyclicals/documents/hf_jp-ii_enc_01051991_centesimus-annus.html
Took all of fifteen seconds to find.
DemonGoddess
(4,640 posts)So, basically, from what I'm reading already, the encyclical referenced is against Socialism, and of course atheism (this part I would always expect, given it's coming from a Pope).
jmowreader
(50,559 posts)Just from skimming the thing, it looks like John Paul II was very much into "bridled capitalism" - both free-reign capitalism like the Republicans preach, and socialism like Bernie Sanders wants, are both bad in his eyes.
Consider the source and you'll see why this paper is so down on socialism: the Pope who wrote it came from a Warsaw Pact country.
Iliyah
(25,111 posts)Gothmog
(145,301 posts)George II
(67,782 posts)...they did not request to come."
So, contrary to the Sanders' fans protestations, Sanders or his campaign DID ask to go!!! He DID invite himself!
Her Sister
(6,444 posts)There it is!!! People don't realize when they give away the name of the game, but they do! They do give it away!
Ha ha and Ha!
LisaM
(27,813 posts)it was a seriously awful choice. First, this is a giant blunder. Second, I'm Catholic but I don't want my elected officials getting their policy from a dusty think tank associated with the Vatican.
BlueMTexpat
(15,369 posts)would advise his candidate to reach out to ANY foreign Head of State during a primary election campaign does not speak well for that person's smarts. It certainly does not speak well for that person's practical experience or protocol when dealing with foreign Heads of State.
In some ways this whole "Pope" incident has reminded me of how Sarah Palin in 2008 was so thoroughly punked by The Masked Avengers into thinking that she was speaking to Nicolas Sarkozy. As if ANY foreign Head of State would do such a thing during an election. But Sarah's huge ego made such a stunt easy to pull off. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Masked_Avengers%27_prank_on_Sarah_Palin
OK, so despite the "spin" presented and allowed to stand by Bernie himself, it was not actually the Pope who was approached. But like you, I am totally mystified as to why any person with common sense would think that ANYONE - Catholic or not (the latter especially) would be impressed that someone who has basically been secular throughout his career (whatever his own religious background or lack of it) would think it a coup to finagle an invitation to "a dusty think tank associated with the Vatican" - as you described it so well.
Beyond quirky, IMO.
okasha
(11,573 posts)Mr. Sach's last trip to the Vatican, as well as Bernie's.
BlueMTexpat
(15,369 posts)Her Sister
(6,444 posts)To look Presidential and smart. They wanted a photo op. Furthermore, if the Pope said one or two things about BS or BS economical ideas that probably would've been worth the whole she-bang. Also, it would have gotten the media all on sanders b/c it was unexpected and "impressive".
They thought they were so clever!
BlueMTexpat
(15,369 posts)LisaM
(27,813 posts)Among other things, he nominated himself to be head of the World Bank, he is strongly in favor of GMO crops, and has a very weird track record in Bolivia and Russia regarding a tactic called "shock therapy" that is supposed to jolt bad economies by applying some very stringent measures. He also hates Hillary (and the Clinton foundation), has accepted millions from George Soros, runs some controversial outfits called "Millennium Villages" in Africa, and is a bitter rival of Paul Krugman. Even he himself admits that his proposed reforms in Russia failed miserably.
Forgive all these links. I think the first two provide the best information. I also can't speak to all the sources, though some are better than others. He seems like a very strange duck.
https://www.independentsentinel.com/pope-francis-has-a-red-adviser/
http://americamagazine.org/issue/call-virtue
http://bilbo.economicoutlook.net/blog/?p=29888
http://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/jan/06/paul-krugman-got-it-wrong-austerity-jeffrey-sachs
http://www.thenation.com/article/opinionnation-should-jeffrey-sachs-be-next-world-bank-president/
http://www.economicshelp.org/blog/7561/economics/shock-therapy-economics/
http://upsidedownworld.org/main/bolivia-archives-31/3522-bolivia-sachs-versus-the-facts
http://www.businessweek.com/investing/green_business/archives/2008/06/jeff_sachs_why.html
BlueMTexpat
(15,369 posts)We certainly do not need anyone with quirky foreign policy credentials at this seminal moment. We need someone with a very steady hand who will build upon Prez O's successes, attempt to mitigate areas where he has not been as successful, develop new areas of success, and begin to make serious inroads on global terrorism by - among other things - helping to rebuild economies that have been destroyed by experiments such as "shock therapy," among others.
Hillary is that person. Bernie not so much. But ABSOLUTELY NO GOPER At ALL!!!
LisaM
(27,813 posts)I think he sounds a little shadowy.
Now, I might be middle-aged and cynical, but when a think tank I'd never heard of and a so-called foreign policy advisor no one's ever heard of either are involved with procuring an invitation to one of their events for a presidential candidate, I call timeout.
Bernie's either completely aware of the ramifications of the whole strange business, or he's in hopelessly over his head.
BlueMTexpat
(15,369 posts)is centered around a document written by the former pope and, according to posts by some here citing from the document itself, does not have a favorable view of socialism.
Is this something else that Bernie may have involuntarily mischaracterized? What a fiasco for him! No due diligence on his part.
LisaM
(27,813 posts)I don't think it is, but the overtly religious element (and the connection to Pope John Paul II) just seem odd.
Her Sister
(6,444 posts)I saw that yes he seems to really have in it for the Clintons.
LisaM
(27,813 posts)How did he "choose" this guy as a foreign policy advisor in the first place? How could he (Sanders) have gone out and mischaracterized this appearance so much? What is Sachs angling for? Everything about Jeffrey Sachs raises a red flag with me.
BlueMTexpat
(15,369 posts)with ALL of us.
LAS14
(13,783 posts)Koinos
(2,792 posts)What happened to Bernie's attachment to Eugene Debs?
BlueMTexpat
(15,369 posts)Koinos
(2,792 posts)Tarheel_Dem
(31,234 posts)fun n serious
(4,451 posts)After a whirlwind few days in which Bernie Sanders tried to convince the nation that he had been invited to the Vatican by Pope Francis, only to see immediate pushback by nearly everyone involved, the factual truth of the story has been difficult to pin down. One person at the Vatican countered that Sanders essentially invited himself to a sideshow event so he could falsely claim he was headed to see the Pope, while another person at the Vatican tried to cover for the embarrassment by countering the first person. But now the official Vatican spokesman is setting the record straight and it isnt pretty.
http://www.dailynewsbin.com/news/truth-comes-out-vatican-says-there-is-no-expectation-that-the-pope-will-meet-mr-sanders/24429/
BlueMTexpat
(15,369 posts)some nasty misogyny, IMO.
Thanks for the link. From that article - and this is pretty stark:
fun n serious
(4,451 posts)BlueMTexpat
(15,369 posts)Dare we call it "pandering?"
Her Sister
(6,444 posts)Full of lies!
Her Sister
(6,444 posts)BlueMTexpat
(15,369 posts)Looks very much as if it will be the standard stump speech. It be be fun to see whether he actually works anything from the encyclical into it, or even mentions the part about Socialists encouraging "the poor man's envy of the rich" etc.
It should be interesting to see how or whether the media fawns all over him ....
Her Sister
(6,444 posts)Fawning over the same same stump speech!? Yawn! Would be great to see the reaction of all the erudite scholars in that conference room!
BlueMTexpat
(15,369 posts)able to keep it to 10 minutes.
Her Sister
(6,444 posts)LONGER explanations ensue...
BlueMTexpat
(15,369 posts)This is one thing that really shocked me at the outset:
Also Michael Shank:
Shank has also referred to the Clinton dynasty, like the Bush family, both monarchies undermining democracy. Hes laudedand possibly co-written?Sachs opinion pieces attacking Clinton and praising Sanders.
Shank has also done his share of praising Sanders and complaining about his mistreatment by the media. Hes described a potential Sanders foreign policy. Hes alleged that NBC is biased toward Clinton because its owned by GE, which for tax reasons love her Wall St bias. Hes characterized New York Times pieces as propaganda and said the Times was in the pockets of the Clinton campaign. And last July he tweeted a quote of Sanders comparing himself to the Pope, and ended the tweet with @CasinaPioIV, which is the Twitter account for PAS and PASS.
So Bernie actually compared himself to the Pope. Just