Venezuela's RW takes a cue from Kissinger: "Make the economy scream!"

[Peace Patriot]

400 tons of hoarded food seized on June 18

Many people prefer to believe opposition claims that it is government mismanagement and policy causing shortages but in this report we publish actual photos taken on June 18th in Tachira state where 400 tons of basic foods were found hoarded in a secret warehouse in the city of San Cristobal.

The products discovered were 195 tons of rice, one ton of ground coffee, 4,000 liters of cooking oil plus sugar, black beans, toilet rolls, canned sardines and tuna, lentils, peas, oats, mayonnaise, tomato sauce and serviettes. All foods sold at regulated process. (my emphasis)
http://venezuelanalysis.com/analysis/9763

The article has eloquent photos of the hoards and hoards of staple foods secreted away, found in just one raid by state police and tax authorities.

Since January at least 40,000 tons of food has been found hidden in various locations. (Ibid)

Food shortages in Venezuela? Toilet paper shortage in Venezuela! All played up by the corporate media--with the rightwing opposition engaging in classic destabilization/coup tactics, in this case hoarding food and other products not only to drive up prices or sell on the black market but also, and mainly, to create a political crisis. That is how the corporate media is playing it; that is how it's done--creating panic, chaos, aggravation, and propagandizing people to blame it on the government that the CIA wants to topple.

[Scootaloo]

1. Don't forget the thousands of gallons of water...

carried for these right-wing fuckjobs by DU posters eager to demonize Venezuela.

[Zorro]

8. Not to mention the troop of surrender monkeys always eager to demonize the USA

and who always accept without question anything put out by a known propaganda site.

[frylock]

14. surrender monkeys. that's cute..

you learn that at the freerepublic?

[Socialistlemur]

15. That term comes from Bush Jr

As in "I give up, lets say finding Osama isn't important. They can call me a surrender monkey if they want to".

[naaman fletcher]

16. I thought it came from the simpons. nt.

[frylock]

17. that's where i heard it..

Groundskeeper Willy teaching French. Never seen it directed to anybody here while they're defending civil liberties. IMHO the folks who have given into the surveillance state are the surrender monkeys.

[Socialistlemur]

2. That site you quoted is a government propaganda site

Venezuelanalysis is an English language propaganda site meant for outside readers. The "hoarding by the enemy" propaganda is meant for the ill-informed. It's very simple to see it is hogwash if you look at the Venezuelan national bank statistics and understand the way they regulate food imports and distribution.

The national bank last reported about 20 % food scarcity. This means 20 % of the food items in their official basket can't be found readily. If we couple their statistics to the amount of US dollars being released for private purchase of imported food, we can see a correlation: the government reduced massively the amount of dollars they provided starting late last year, and the problem continues.

The national bank figures also show government imports are way up. And this is a long term trend. So what this means is that food being smuggled to Colombia and leaking out of the state owned food distribution system is most likely being stolen with the cooperation of corrupt government officials.

Furthermore, if we consider Venezuela has a population of 30 million...the amount of food this site claims was "hidden" (and I seriously doubt this claim because Venezuelanalysis is known to lie all the time), amounts to 1.33 kg of food per person. Even if this is true, them they found a whopping 1.33 kg per person in say 5 months. That's 266 grams of food per person per month. Less than one tablespoon per day.

Conclusion? If one can look at economic statistics and knows there are 30 million venezuelans, it's easy to figure out most of these claims are baloney.

[Judi Lynn]

3. That article appeared first in an entirely DIFFERENT publication. How could you not know this?

It wasn't even written by anyone at Venezuelanalysis. If you had ever taken the time to check, you'd already know they publish articles from many, many resources.

If you want to read something more comfortable for rightests, try the "newspaper" published by a coup supporter and participant, El Universal, which is quoted here regularly by baggers and ordinary winger reactionaries, despite the fact this site was created specifically for progressives, liberals, democrats,

[Socialistlemur]

9. It's still propaganda paid for by the Venezuelan government

So it was written from Caracas for Axis of Logic....it still qualifies as pro government propaganda published by a government financed website. Not only is it propaganda, it's written in English for outsiders. I think it's time you anchor comments with the statistical reality published by the national bank. The idea that shortages are the result of a conspiracy flies in the face of common sense if you know the delays faced by companies to acquire hard currency, the overall amount of money owed, and other official statistics. What you need to do is track closely what Merentes says. It's mostly in Spanish but he is one of the few honest men in that shop. Giordani is an amateur and is lost. So check their point and counterpoint and you'll get a sense of what goes on. And lets face it, this chat we have is irrelevant. I don't think Merentes reads what I write, and Giordani sounds like a CIA agent. So maybe we should just wait to see who's right. I still bet they ave to devalue and do it fast. They got 60 days left.

[naaman fletcher]

10. relax, people make that mistake all the time

http://www.democraticunderground.com/110814217

[Peace Patriot]

5. "...because Venezuelanalysis is known to lie all the time..." Huh?

Known by whom?

Please cite examples of their lying--and, to support "lie all the time," cite many of examples of their "lying."

Venezuelanalysis publishes different kinds of articles, from varied sources, including quite astute articles based on hard data and research with footnotes, to political analysis, to opinion, to interviews, to voices of the unheard (people and groups that get entirely ignored by the corporate media, such as labor unions and social groups, or individual poor people or workers). They have published strong criticisms of Chavez from the left. They just published an opposition article about the political divisions in Venezuela. There are many authors and many subjects, and many republished articles from other sites/publications.

So, who are you talking about, when you say that "Venezuelanalysis is known to lie all the time"?

The editors/owners of Venezuelanalysis are pro-Chavez (though they, too, have criticized Chavez), but what's wrong with that? Corporate media takes political stances, for or against government leaders, all the time--and permits far, far LESS diversity of opinion that VA does.

I've found VA extremely informative--especially in view of the uniformly, and often vicious, negative, anti-Chavez, coup-supporting coverage of the entire corporate media! It is refreshing to read alternatives to the corporate view. And I have found very good information there--for instance, on poverty statistics and income equality, which have been independently verified by the UN Economic Commission on Latin America and the Caribbean, the Millennium Project and others, and, for instance, information on Venezuela's election system, which has been independently verified by the Carter Center and other international election monitoring groups. VA's information has proven to be, in truth, very RELIABLE.

You're going to have to convince me--with evidence, facts, many examples--that VA "is known to lie all the time."

And, until you do, YOUR information is suspect. If you make uninformed, extreme statements like this on one subject, would you be reliable on other subjects?

I developed a very useful "rule of thumb" for figuring out what was really going on when members of the Bush Junta said things. The rule was this: Whatever they say, the opposite is true; and whatever they accuse others of doing, they are doing or planning to do.


Within minutes of a Bush Junta statement, I could figure out--quite accurately--what the reality was. It was a 99.99% accurate prediction tool. And I'm beginning to think that this "rule of thumb" is useful for rightwingers in general and for the corporate media as well.

Applied to your statement that "Venezuelanalysis is known to lie all the time," it would mean that Venezuelanalysis tries very hard to tell the truth, and that it is you who "lies all the time."

Hm. Since I'm quite familiar with Venezuelanalysis, I can verify that their articles are informative, enlightening, reliable on certain important topics, quite varied as to authors, sources and subjects, not always pro-Chavez, and a very vital alternative to corporate propaganda.

I don't know if they or any of their many authors have ever lied (said something they knew wasn't true). I've never caught them at it. I don't always like their articles but I've never felt anyone was LYING. (Bad writing style; boring writer or subject, whatever.) Generally, I'm always interested and glad that this site exists.

I cannot verify that you "lie all the time" but I do know you for a rightwinger, from your posts here at DU, and I've found that rightwingers don't respect facts, favor corporate/1%-er interests and often promote an Alice-in-Wonderland-ish view of the world (inside out, upside down and backwards). This doesn't make you a Bushwhack--one who DOES "lie all the time"--but it makes me quite skeptical of anything you say.

Just thought I'd let you know how I evaluate posts like yours.

[Socialistlemur]

11. Show me a veezuelanalysis article and I'll show you the mistakes

It's simple, I think Eva feels she is doing her cause a favor putting out basic propaganda material no serious observer believes. I prefer Aporrea because it criticizes the government. Sometimes they are wrong but they sure are honest.

But what do you accomplish selling this simple minded view from Venezuelanalysis? The support of a few leftist types who fly back and forth between causes? The most useful posts are the ones which state clearly what's the problem and how it's being solved. Whether the solution is sensible, and what chances does it have. For example I always said Chavez ought to tone down the personality worship and create a movement based on ideas. And this had to emphasize eliminating corruption. What happened instead? Corruption flourished. Why don't you read what Merentes said was stolen by Chavistas last year? And would you read the reports about dozens of officials being arrested? What does it tell you? Maduro, with clear Cuban support, is moving in and rolling up the corruption mafias. But these mafias grew over time under Chavez' nose. This tells me Maduro, mentored by Raul Castro, is hitting corruption. And this wasn't Chavez' decision. Chavez is dead. Instead of all the baloney praising Chavez its better to describe what was wrong and hope they do fix it.

[Peace Patriot]

18. No, no, no, that's not how it works when you tell a whopper like "VA lies all the time."

YOU provide the many articles needed to ESTABLISH that Venezuelanalysis "lies all the time."

You told the whopper. You back it up.

And don't try to get out of it by changing your accusation to "the mistakes" ("Show me a veezuelanalysis article and I'll show you the mistakes&quot now that I've challenged your whopper. What you said is, "Venezuelanalysis is known to lie all the time ."

What is your evidence? And who is it "known" by?

I'm not going to help you. I'm not going to show you anything at all. I don't agree with your statement. I've provided my reasons in detail, including specific information that I obtained at the VA site that has been confirmed by independent institutions. Now it's your turn.

Show us the details that "VA lies all the time." Not "the mistakes." Mistakes are not lies. You said "lies," "all the time," and this is "known." Where is it known? By whom? What are the "lies"? And what are the lies sufficient to establish "lies all the time"?

[Judi Lynn]

4. A lot of the anal hoarders working to throw the elected government over know this is hurting

the people of the country, placing them under horrendous stress, and couldn't care less. The people are of no importance whatsoever as long as the comfortably secure people can always locate and afford food, as they've been doing for ages.

The hoarding routine has been employed relentlessly since well before Hugo Chavez' first term, in the practice of hoarding, hiding grocery items before ever Christmas, making them scarce long enough to create panic and drive the prices up.

Price controls didn't just happen. They happened to put the breaks on the assholes chiseling, and cheating the people of their own country who have to count every cent they spend.

In the meantime, our corporate propagandists, and the servile message board trolls try to lay down the lie that progressives are just ruining the country with their attempts to control prices which they feel should be free to strangle the working and poor classes to death in order to pry every last cent out of them before they go.

Day in, day out, they keep yammering the same old drool, so familiar by now we can all repeat it by memory as soon as we see it again. Their hatred goes out to progressives they claim are taking from the murderous, pompous, dirty thieves they adore, the "business" community, the same ones who will fight back by bringing the whole thing down around everyone's heads, while the pasty faced, putrid fucks all head on up to their other homes in Miami, or all other points of the compass.

Some kind of patriots they are. No wonder right-wing lunatic institutions in the U.S. watch their elite clown kids in Venezuela with such interests, offering them inducements like $500,000.00, awarded Yon Goicoechea to create havoc, and try to build student resistance to the people's elected government, agitating to bring down the country and replace the good leaders with the same old oligarchy scum who sold the people out so very long ago, and brought to life a narrow elite class, bought and paid for by outside interests, running the country, absorbing all of the leftover profits not handed off to foreign corporations.

Immoral, repulsive beyond all reckoning. Degenerates.

[Socialistlemur]

12. Price controls fail

Economics history shows price controls lead to scarcity and corruption. This is a basic fact. But when price controls are used in a high inflation environment they are toxic. The arguments you make ignore these facts.

[naaman fletcher]

6. The Venezuelan Central Bank disagrees with you

The Venezuelan Central Bank as specifically said that the shortages are due to the currency controls, and hence their plan to make dollars more available to importers.

[Marksman_91]

7. Haven't you learned? Numbers and facts are not important!

Especially when they make this government look bad! Obviously none of the problems of the country can be blamed on Maburro and his ilk, that would just shatter the illusions of so many of the posters in this forum!

[Socialistlemur]

13. Maybe we need Merentes to give them a seminar?

It's very simple if he just shows them a few graphs showing data on payment delays and the amounts owed. An interview series with companies bringing goods to Venezuela would help as well.