Latin America
Related: About this forumColombia’s democracy an ‘embarrassment’: FARC leader
Colombias democracy an embarrassment: FARC leader
posted by Marcus Sales
Jul 9, 2013
The leader of rebel group FARC heavily criticized Colombias democracy in an open letter to President Juan Manuel Santos on Tuesday.
In the open letter that was published on the guserrillas website, Timochenko stated that Colombias democracy had been exhausted and is an embarrassment.
The letter was dedicated to Santos on the rebel groups website and signed Timoleon Jimenez, another nom de guerre of the guerrilla groups leader.
Timochenko chose to demonstrate his argument with news stories emanating from Saturday. The guerrilla chief referred to a news story regarding three soldiers sentenced to 32 years in prison for involvement in the extrajudicial killing of civilians, Colombias ambassador to the US being a case of land theft and ongoing protests in the Catatumbo region, in which four have died.
More:
http://colombiareports.com/farc-leader-brands-colombia-democracy-embarrassment/
COLGATE4
(14,732 posts)the peaceful population of Colombia. In addition to being murdering, drug-running and drug protecting kidnapping thugs hiding behind the pretext of ideology.
Peace Patriot
(24,010 posts)in Colombia, according to Amnesty International and other human rights groups. The FARC is responsible for only a tiny percentage of such murders. The military and its death squads targets labor leaders, teachers, community activists, peasant farmers, political leftists, academics and journalists. They furthermore have brutally displaced FIVE MILLION peasant farmers from their lands.
It is a CIVIL WAR, with the U.S. government funding, training and supporting one side of it ($7 BILLION in military aid), as prep for U.S. "free trade for the rich" (kill off the labor leaders and other opposition; "cleanse" the countryside--drive the poor majority from its small farms into urban squalor, as a slave labor pool--oil, gas, coal, gold and ag land thus become totally lootable by transnational corporations, and the displaced urban poor cannot feed itself and becomes desperate for any job whatsoever).
A nasty business for the U.S. government to be involved in, up to its ears.
As for drug-running, all I can do is laugh.
The U.S. "war on drugs" is a mafia protection racket, with the favored drug lords in the military and the fascist political establishment eliminating their rivals, on our dime. That is why the cocaine never stops flowing out of Colombia. And that may be why--or part of why--the current rightwing president of Colombia, Manual Santos (who appears to be cleaner than their prior leader, Alvaro Uribe, who ran Colombia as a criminal organization for the Bush Junta) has called for the complete legalization of drugs! (As a rightwinger, he may also have the motive of opening the drug market for Big Pharma, Monsanto, Chiquita, et al.)
Your view of the FARC as bad and the rightwing political establishment in Colombia as good is ridiculous. I don't approve of ANY FARC murders, even a tiny percentage, nor of their kidnapping of innocents. But when you have a military that murders youngsters and dresses their bodies up as FARC guerrillas, in order to up their "body count" to earn bonuses and impress U.S. senators, you know something is very, very, VERY wrong. And when you have THE worst human displacement crisis on earth, bar none, in Colombia, you know something is very, very, VERY wrong. And when you have THE worst rich/poor discrepancy in Latin America (right next door to the best--Venezuela), you know something is very, very, VERY wrong. For one thing, you know that the poor majority in Colombia is NOT being represented in the political establishment! And that is the result of, a) decades of extremely corrupt and stolen elections, and b) decades of brutal military repression of grass roots activists and normal democratic organizing.
It is not at all easy to choose between the warring sides of this civil war. If I was a peasant farmer in Colombia, and saw members of my family and community slaughtered by the military, and my family driven from its tiny bit of farm, I might take up arms myself, as the FARC guerrillas have done. Hard to say. It's easy to avow peace when you are not personally affected by violence. But to dismiss the FARC's viewpoint as "criminal" while failing to mention the gross criminality of the other side is Tea Party-ish (blind to facts).
Colombia has desperately needed political reform for many decades. The FARC leader is absolutely right about that. And many of the OTHER people who would say it are DEAD--murdered by the military and its death squads, funded and trained by the USA. And many of the potential leaders of political reform who are not dead have been silenced by intimidation and death THREATS. Uribe, for instance, was spying on judges, prosecutors, leftist politicians and labor leaders, and drawing up "hit lists" for assassination or for death threats, along with monitoring the legal system to protect his criminal organization. He publicly stated that everyone who opposes him is a "terrorist." What kind of democracy is THAT? Uribe is still at large, protected by the U.S. government. What kind of democracy is THAT? Uribe is furthermore threatening to return to power in Colombia. What kind of democracy is THAT? And what does it say about the "peaceful population" of Colombia, that that is a possibility. The murdering, lying, spying, drug running, war mongering, mafia boss of Colombia--the most corrupt politician in history--is quite popular in Colombia. This "peaceful population" of which you speak has its head up its ass.
COLGATE4
(14,732 posts)of Colombia is at best second-hand, and often not even that. Unfortunately your posts reflect this. And your dismissal of well over 60% of the Colombian population (who recently voted Uribe as their 'favorite figure', above Jesus Christ) as "having its head up its ass" because they don't agree with your version of their Country says it all.
ocpagu
(1,954 posts)Above Jesus Christ?
Yep. That country is screwed for life.
COLGATE4
(14,732 posts)I believe they'll continue to do well even without your approval.
When do they plan to start "going well"?
COLGATE4
(14,732 posts)you mean when do they start to 'be doing well'? Actually, Colombia, in spite of its many challenges ( including a 50-year civil war) is by almost every measurement doing extremely well, thank you.
Bacchus4.0
(6,837 posts)or governments from surrounding states trying to undermine the country. I hope to get there in the next two months actually.
COLGATE4
(14,732 posts)that moves forward in spite of all the difficulties it has to face. Great place to visit - beautiful topography of all types and some of the warmest and friendliest people you'll ever meet. Be interested to hear your impressions when you get back - I haven't been in over a year and things there change rapidly.
Bacchus4.0
(6,837 posts)Last time I went was Nov. 2011 after about 5 years. Its gotten more expensive for sure. I could live there. Peru and Ecuador would be my other choices. Too bad about Venezuela. It used to be a cool place.
COLGATE4
(14,732 posts)complain all the time about the high COL now. Ecador is still a nice country to visit, too. We lived there for five years and loved it. Haven't lived in Peru have visited many times and always liked it, although Lima's grey skies are sometimes a little depressing.
PaddyIrishman
(110 posts)If I was Colombian and someone like Gallup contacted me asking what I thought of Uribe, I'd say he was bigger than Jesus too.
If I didn't want my family slaughtered that is.
COLGATE4
(14,732 posts)that you have no idea what you're talking about. Uribe enjoys such widespread support among all levels of the Colombian population because he, alone among modern-day Presidents actually took steps to reign in the guerrilla activity and let people go about living their daily lives without fear of being kidnapped or killed. To suggest that the general populace of Colombia lives in fear of Uribe is to demonstrate a total and complete lack of knowledge or understanding of Colombia. BTW, Uribe may well run for President again. And if he does, he will be elected by a landslide in free and fair elections.
Bacchus4.0
(6,837 posts)and Uribe won overwhelmingly. I was surprised the Sofia Vergara or Shakira didn't make the list.
COLGATE4
(14,732 posts)'Greatest Colombian' sounds right. (I'm not surprised that Shakira and/or Sofia didn't make it - I think the people took the poll more seriously than that. And neither Shakira or Sofia are the idols in Colombia that they are here.
tblue
(16,350 posts)We have lost the high ground, moral and any other. Dammit.
I've always heard FARC is bad news. But I know things aren't always what they appear if you get your news from corporate sources in this country, so I am not sure what to make of FARC. Do you know?
Marksman_91
(2,035 posts)Wow... Any of the hostages that have been released/rescued from them would outright slap you in the face for that comment.
Or any of the victims from their terrorist attacks throughout the country.
Or any self-respecting Colombian.
tblue
(16,350 posts)I remember one woman was kidnapped and released. I saw her talking about it and her story was harrowing. Yes, I have heard they did horrible stuff like this. I was responding to the op that was providing the opinion of a FARC leader and it made me wonder if we have been played by our media, as we have been with groups and individuals in Latin America, with Che Guevara, the Sandinistas, the Contras, Pinochet, Hugo Chavez. Our media sometimes makes the bad guys into good guys and vice versa. That's what I was responding to.
No need to get nasty. I don't think I deserve to be slapped, and I am glad I'm nowhere near your vicinity. I was asking an honest question. Thank you.
Bacchus4.0
(6,837 posts)if you consider child slavery, placing land mines, extortion, murder, or kidnapping bad news. Whether the US has any moral authority to preach is beside the point.
ocpagu
(1,954 posts)It's really not like FARC has been demanding the impossible. But the oligarchic elites in Latin America have a toxic fear of constituent assemblies. Why do they fear the people being heard?
We know why.
Bacchus4.0
(6,837 posts)n
Peace Patriot
(24,010 posts)...and by its closely tied rightwing paramilitary death squads (the other half), according to AI and other human rights groups.
You NEVER comment about THAT, Bacchus. Why not? Do you approve of the murders of thousands of labor leaders, teachers, community activists, political leftists, peasant farmers and other opposers of the moneyed elite and their corporate pals? Over 90% of the murders of labor leaders committed by the Colombian military and its death squads (AI). Please tell us what you think of THAT. And then tell us who, in your opinion, gets to talk about peaceful politics and social justice.
If you would silence the FARC, would you also silence the Colombian military and its death squads and the rightwing political elite that runs them?
Violence on both sides (it is a CIVIL WAR) but the bulk of the atrocities on ONE side--the side of the moneyed, landed, U.S.-supported rightwing elite. WHO gets to talk about peaceful politics and social justice? WHO, Bacchus?
Bacchus4.0
(6,837 posts)of course I don't approve of the murder of innocents. I don't know why you are so supportive of an organization that engages in child slavery, murder, kidnapping just to name a few.
"Labor leaders" lives are no more valuable than anyone elses in my opinion. No more than the thousands of citizens killed by the police in Venezuela every year.
The whole purpose of negotiating a peace treaty is to end the violence and integrate the FARC back into society. The Colombian government is being most generous in this regard. Remember Uribe simply wanted to eliminate them completely.
The FARC certainly don't have any right to speak about democracy, peaceful politics, and social justice.
Judi Lynn
(160,630 posts)the lion's share if the drug trafficking and the murders, not to mention the torture, terrorism, and grotesque chainsaw massacres, sometimes publicly, involving public mutilation and torture of entire communities, and forced child soldiering, have changed names, and reshuffled themselves into new groups, which was accomplished during Uribe's last term in office, as acknowledged by human rights groups.
It has all been covered exhaustively here at D.U. over many years, and yes, at least two of the current right-wing disruptors who are here now were infesting DU, even then. It has been discussed by DU'ers among themselves, along with right-wing slime, various ones who have departed and probably returned with new screen names repeatedly.
Anyone curious about how to find more information about the human pure trash committing the vast majority of terrorism and violence in Colombia, can find a wealth of information right here at DU by investing a little time researching the topics from earlier days and years.
It's all there, and it's all over the internetS, even with the deliberate news blackout by our corporate media concerning unbelievable, unforgivable, hellish right-wing terrorism and sadistic abuse and manipulation of the majority of Colombians who have been living in fear since at least the "Violencia" when the right slaughtered a beloved leftist Presidential candidate. Decades and decades, and decades of hell.