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BridgeTheGap

(3,615 posts)
Fri Feb 3, 2012, 08:58 AM Feb 2012

Capitalism And Its Discontents - Richard Wolff On What Went Wrong

Today’s economic crisis is the most severe since the Great Depression. Some put the blame on greedy bankers who pawned off credit-default swaps, subprime mortgages, and a smorgasbord of derivatives on hapless investors in a time of little or no regulation. Others blame consumers who irresponsibly took out loans they couldn’t pay back. Economist Richard Wolff says no single sector of the economy is at fault. The seismic failures are systemic and deep, and fundamental change is necessary to avoid future collapses.

Wolff has devoted a lifetime to the study of economics and capitalism. He is professor of economics emeritus at the University of Massachusetts Amherst and is currently a visiting professor at The New School in New York City. His 2009 book, Capitalism Hits the Fan: The Global Economic Meltdown and What to Do about It, is an account of the current crisis and its origins, with suggestions for structural changes rather than tepid reforms. “The issues raised by the crisis,” he says, “go far beyond the stale old debates between those favoring more versus less government. The capitalist system itself has been placed in question.”

http://www.thesunmagazine.org/issues/434/capitalism_and_its_discontents

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Capitalism And Its Discontents - Richard Wolff On What Went Wrong (Original Post) BridgeTheGap Feb 2012 OP
Interesting article Owlet Feb 2012 #1
Karl Polyani is even more hated then Marx by the Neo-liberal economists happyslug Feb 2012 #2
There was also not much attention paid to the concerted RW effort to regain BridgeTheGap Feb 2012 #5
Liberals made capitalism work Warpy Feb 2012 #3
Yes, they understood the need for fair taxation and regulation. When raygun brought in his Friedman jwirr Feb 2012 #4
And so the GOP had to destroy capitalism to save it Demeter Feb 2012 #7
This is a very important thread Demeter Feb 2012 #6

Owlet

(1,248 posts)
1. Interesting article
Fri Feb 3, 2012, 09:28 AM
Feb 2012

..but I think he leaves something out in his discussion of the '70's as the period when it all started to go downhill for the middle class. This was the decade when rewarding top executives of corporations with stock options came into being. The emphasis shifted to growing the stock price, and corporate vision narrowed down to the next quarter.

On a larger scale, I think all of today's economists would do well to reread Karl Polyani's book The Great Transformation. Just as WWI ended European civilization (as Polyani saw it) so we may be seeing the end of another 100 year cycle. Who knows? I'm more into history than economics, so have more of an affinity for long-view explanations.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Great_Transformation_%28book%29

 

happyslug

(14,779 posts)
2. Karl Polyani is even more hated then Marx by the Neo-liberal economists
Fri Feb 3, 2012, 12:45 PM
Feb 2012

The reason for this is Karl Polyani attacks the one thing Marxist and Neo-Liberal economics have in common, the concept that EVERYONE does what is in their own best economic self interest. This is the base for Adam Smith's "Wealth of Nations" (Which Marx stated his concept of Communism is the direct result of what Adam Smith was advocating in "Wealth of Nations", i.e. "Wealth of Nations" is the book from which Neo-Liberal and Marxist economics derived from).

Karl Polyani points out the unacceptable fact to both groups that people are communal animals and when given a choose between their own best interest AND the best interest of the group they belong to, most people will opt for the latter (i.e. betterment of the Group) as opposed to the former (betterment of themselves). It is ANTI-Human to prefer one self over the group (And to get around this Marx emphasized class, while Neo-Liberal economists emphasis that the rich are smarter then the poor that is why they have the money).

Now, Karl Polyani stated clearly that Self Regulated Markets always existed and always will exist. but he then stated that such markets were NOT how most Societies were organized and the nature of such markets meant there was constant tension between such Self Regulated Markets AND how other parts of the Society worked. As long as such self regulated markets were small, they could not dominate society as a whole and society as a whole survived for self regulated markets were to small to come into conflict with the concept of Community. The problem occurred as Self Regulated Markets started to become the norm, society changed to accommodate the expansion of the Self Regulated Markets, but at the cost of the concept of Community.

Given that a Self Regulated Market is based NOT on the concept of the community but personal self interest, personal self interest will sooner or later become the norm for any society that permits Self Regulated Markets to become how most interactions between members occur. In such situation the concept of Community comes under attack, and people being communal animals by nature will fight back (Thus the rise of Anti-Capitalist movements in the 1800s and 1900s, from Labor Unions, to government regulations of business, to Communism).

Karl Polyani basically saw this interaction between these two concepts of how society is to be organized and saw that the Self Regulated Market HAD to consistently attack more and more elements of the Concept of Community to survive. On the other hand the concept that people are communal animals will constantly come up and oppose such expansion. Thus the Market Economy will sooner or later hit a brick wall of opposition and at that point will have to retreat or fight (and given that fighting is by nature a COMMUNAL action, sooner or later the Community concept will prevail).

This concept, that it is the innate human concept to be a member of a group, that the Market Economy must defeat to survive, but any such defeat means the end of any concept of human interaction (the base of ANY Society) is the conflict Karl Polyani was pointing out.

In effect Karl Polyani is hated for he shows the whole concept of the Market Economy is based on quicksand NOT rock and that anything built on that quicksand will sooner or later collapse is something both Marxists AND Neo-Liberals economics can not accept. To accept that concept means both of their economic views have no solid base for the only solid base for any human society is the concept of community not economic self interest.

BridgeTheGap

(3,615 posts)
5. There was also not much attention paid to the concerted RW effort to regain
Mon Feb 6, 2012, 09:11 AM
Feb 2012

control of the government that began in the early 70s. The pouring of huge amounts of money into think tanks that promote conservative / free market ideololgy, creation of business associations that lobby government, i.e. ALEC and the effort to elect/appoint "business friendly" judges to the bench. "Free trade", de-regulation and privatization are the biggest economic results, as well as the out and out assault on organized labor. The economy we live under may have some hidden hands but most of it isn't hidden. The economy doesn't happen in a vaccum. And finally, the buying (corrupting) of the political system with campaign contributions.

Warpy

(111,277 posts)
3. Liberals made capitalism work
Fri Feb 3, 2012, 04:39 PM
Feb 2012

and they did it by doing things that would cause the present day Republicans to take up arms and start killing us randomly in the streets: high taxes at the top, little to no taxes at the bottom, a strong central government capable of policing the rich and powerful, a strong social safety net and plenty of government spending on infrastructure. They didn't much like the strong unions, but they tolerated them as another balance to the power of the rich.

Yeah, we made capitalism work. And they've never forgiven us for it.

jwirr

(39,215 posts)
4. Yes, they understood the need for fair taxation and regulation. When raygun brought in his Friedman
Fri Feb 3, 2012, 07:14 PM
Feb 2012

style economics that was about to end. And we have the results all around the world. Greed was accepted as the only reason to be in business.

 

Demeter

(85,373 posts)
7. And so the GOP had to destroy capitalism to save it
Mon Feb 6, 2012, 01:48 PM
Feb 2012

When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail...it's so much easier to destroy than to create, anyway...and requires no intelligence or training.

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