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Those serious about fighting climate change, who seriously know how to do it, have an activist... (Original Post) NNadir Dec 2021 OP
The greatest thing an individual can do multigraincracker Dec 2021 #1
I disagree. The greatest thing an individual can do to save the planet... NNadir Dec 2021 #2
By doing that, you are showing respect. multigraincracker Dec 2021 #3
Well, I may be a criminal in your opinion, since I had two children. NNadir Dec 2021 #4
You are not criminal in my estimate. multigraincracker Dec 2021 #5

NNadir

(33,542 posts)
2. I disagree. The greatest thing an individual can do to save the planet...
Thu Dec 23, 2021, 10:55 PM
Dec 2021

...is to have a shred of respect for future generations.

multigraincracker

(32,715 posts)
3. By doing that, you are showing respect.
Fri Dec 24, 2021, 04:41 AM
Dec 2021

If the population is to double or triple or more, how can the Earth handle it? From 1927 the population of humans went from 2 billion and by 2035 it will be 8 billion. Already seems a little crowded and resources strained.
Yeast in sugary juice just eat, breed and shit out alcohol and when that shit reaches 10% to 15% all of the yeast dies. Zero population growth can save the world.

NNadir

(33,542 posts)
4. Well, I may be a criminal in your opinion, since I had two children.
Fri Dec 24, 2021, 06:35 AM
Dec 2021

As I reported in this space, India and China, which together account for about 3 billion people are both below the replacement rate, which is about 2.1 children/women. India's population will continue to grow in the next decade, because the population is relatively young.

The bottom line is that the Earth's population will not double or triple.

Your proposed definition of morality of course, in extremis would not show respect for future generations; it would eliminate them.

As a practical matter, the planet was well beyond its carrying capacity for most of last century, and for all of this century. The population will not triple or even double.

It is well understood that meeting human development goals - i.e. addressing poverty - tends to reduce birth rates. This is why countries like Japan and Finland have long been below replacement rates. Without immigration, the US would be in the same place.

Population reduction via addressing poverty would have been, in the way I spent my overly long life, the way that I would have preferred. I now expect population reduction to occur primarily by tragedy:

The key to addressing poverty is access to clean and sustainable energy with high mass and land efficiency. In general, humanity is rather clueless about this point. The prevailing attitude is to providing energy unreliably, with high mass and land intensity, that is, using so called "renewable energy." This of course is a reactionary idea to return to the state of affairs that prevailed until the early 19th century. In many ways it is worse than what prevailed in the early 19th century, since it is a call to return to dependence on the weather precisely at a time when we have radically destabilized the weather.

Of course, this idea is absurd and predictably has failed, is failing and will continue to fail.

Things, however, do not need to be this way. I do see some hope for change however; in my long life I never, not once, saw an activist group quite like the one described in the OP.

One of the two sons I irresponsibly parented has announced his intention to participate in engineering the solution for which the activists in this case are calling. He's a very, very, very, very bright young man, with whom one can converse quite lucidly about energy and mass flows, thermodynamics, heat transfer, heat networks, materials science as well as about ethics. He has announced that his reasoning for choosing his career is to address, among other things like climate change, human poverty.

I take him at his word, since I know him better than anyone.

I was against having a second child; my wife prevailed on me to change my mind. I'm glad she did, and not just because, as Shakespeare had it in Lear "there was much merriment in the making," but because I more than a little pridefully believe that people like my son, a member of this young and exciting rising generation, have it in them to save the world.

At the end of my life, I retain some shred of optimism for the future. I guess I'm just a tired old liberal who holds on, in spite of all evidence to the contrary, some respect for humanity. Answers exist. We only need to embrace them.

multigraincracker

(32,715 posts)
5. You are not criminal in my estimate.
Fri Dec 24, 2021, 07:31 AM
Dec 2021

I'm just doing what I feel is best for me and what I can do for the future as best as I can. Slowing growth seems to be a positive goal. If we don't do it ourselves, looks like nature will do it for us.

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