AMERICA IS WRAPPED IN MILES OF TOXIC LEAD CABLES

[douglas9]

AT&T, Verizon and other telecom giants have left behind a sprawling network of cables covered in toxic lead that stretches across the U.S., under the water, in the soil and on poles overhead, a Wall Street Journal investigation found. As the lead degrades, it is ending up in places where Americans live, work and play.

The lead can be found on the banks of the Mississippi River in Louisiana, the Detroit River in Michigan, the Willamette River in Oregon and the Passaic River in New Jersey, according to the Journal’s tests of samples from nearly 130 underwater-cable sites, conducted by several independent laboratories. The metal has tainted the soil at a popular fishing spot in New Iberia, La., at a playground in Wappingers Falls, N.Y., and in front of a school in suburban New Jersey.

The U.S. has spent decades eradicating lead from well-known sources such as paint, gasoline and pipes. The Journal’s investigation reveals a hidden source of contamination—more than 2,000 lead-covered cables—that hasn’t been addressed by the companies or environmental regulators. These relics of the old Bell System’s regional telephone network, and their impact on the environment, haven’t been previously reported.

Lead levels in sediment and soil at more than four dozen locations tested by the Journal exceeded safety recommendations set by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency. At the New Iberia fishing spot, lead leaching into the sediment near a cable in June 2022 measured 14.5 times the EPA threshold for areas where children play. “We’ve been fishing here since we were kids,” said Tyrin Jones, 27 years old, who grew up a few blocks away.


https://www.wsj.com/articles/lead-cables-telecoms-att-toxic-5b34408b?mod=djemalertNEWS

[captain queeg]

1. I don't know how widespread the issue might be

But when I worked at ODOT we had to put a new undersea cable, can’t remember exactly where it was. Probably out to one of our draw bridges(can’t imagine where else we’d have been involved). Yes, older underwater cables were wrapped in lead to keep them on the bottom. The new cable didn’t have lead and was buried under the bottom mud. Not sure the old cables were buried, they might have just relied on the weight to keep them on the bottom. The new ones were sealed in rubber or plastic. Again, I’m not really sure the old ones were sealed but I’m pretty sure they were. Certainly the newer lead covered cables were.

[Progressive dog]

2. We still have lots of lead water pipes.

We should fix them first.

In a first-of-its-kind report, the Environmental Protection Agency has released a comprehensive assessment on lead pipe infrastructure across the United States, revealing that an estimated total of 9.2 million lead pipes serviced American homes in 2021.

According to the report, lead service lines are estimated to make up over 9% of the entire national service line infrastructure, exposing much of America’s drinking water to lead contamination.

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/articles/states-with-the-most-lead-pipes

[Think. Again.]

3. Maybe...

We should just fix them both as quickly as possible?

It would seem that this is the responsibility of the corporations that profiteered of of these lead lines bein where they are. They need to clean up the harmful mess they left behind.

[Hugh_Lebowski]

4. Sure, all ya gotta do is find the person at Bell Labs who's hanging out

ready to scratch off like a $250,000,000 check to clean up the shit the company did like 80 years ago.

Should be no problem

[Think. Again.]

6. Ha! yep...

But really, in a reasonably sane would, it actually should be no problem to hold corporations responsible for the harm they cause.

[Think. Again.]

7. I thought that...

...when corporations sell or transfer their assets they also transfer the liabilities?

And wouldn't those sales or transfers be written down somewhere?

Seems it wouldn't be difficult to figure which current corporation holds the liabilty for these lead lines...

It's which of the official agencies that are responsible for holding the corporations responsible that might be a problem.

[Hugh_Lebowski]

8. That WOULD be nice ... guess we'll see who actually ends up paying (nt)

[Progressive dog]

9. We still have lead in many electronic devices.

It is used in much of the solder that attaches components to circuit boards. The lead solder used to install copper water pipes was allowed to contain lead until 1986. Lead water pipes are still in use in many cities. Supposedly the lead in the water is monitored.
In Flint Michigan, the pipes were coated with calcium deposits so that very little lead leached into the water until the water source changed.

Steps taken during the last two decades have reduced exposures to lead in tap water. These steps include actions taken under requirements of the 1986 and 1996 amendments to the Safe Drinking Water Act and the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency’s (EPA’s) Lead and Copper Rule. Even so, lead in water can come from homes with lead service lines that connect the home to the main water line. Homes without lead service lines may still have brass or chrome-plated brass faucets, galvanized iron pipes or other plumbing soldered with lead. Some drinking water fountains with lead-lined tanks and other plumbing fixtures not intended for drinking water (e.g., lab faucets, hoses, spigots, hand washing sinks) may also have lead in the water.

Lead-contaminated soil continues to be a hazardous source of lead exposure for young children in the United States. Deposits from leaded gasoline, exterior lead-based paint, and industrial sources have contributed to increased levels of lead in the soil. This is especially common in urban areas and homes built before 1978.

https://www.cdc.gov/nceh/lead/prevention/sources/soil.htm

[Progressive dog]

10. We can't fix every problem

at once. It's not like we have unlimited resources that allow us to fix potential problems when we have existing problems we haven't addressed. The government allowed lead in gasoline and the corporations obeyed the law. The government still allows lead in solder.
Local governments knowingly installed lead pipes in their water systems because they were less expensive than the alternatives. The cities (who sell their water) should be responsible for the product they sell.

[Think. Again.]

5. A lot of...

...initial discussions are being had about the need to improve the entire "grid" as part of our work toward the energy transition.

I have no idea how this would fit into that, but it seems to me a lot of the work to remove these lead lines would, could, or should overlap with the work of upgrading the grid in general. I think that makes sense (?) but I am dfinitely not any kind of expert on grid infrastructure.

[Progressive dog]

11. The grid has to do with the delivery of electricity

not the delivery of communications. Electricity is carried on aluminum wires. Communications use fiber optics for new installations. Lead is not required or used.

[Think. Again.]

12. yeah but...

It seems a lot of these wires, both electric wires and the communication wires, are all strung together on the same poles and junction systems and whatever is used.

Seems like they are all bits and pieces and the same overall grid system, so I thought maybe it should all be looked at as one job.

[Progressive dog]

13. Poles are not underground or underwater

so cables on poles are easy to take down if they contain lead (which they are unlikely to have because lead is used to make the cables weigh more. You aren't aiming for more sag in pole hung cables.
Communication cables are not part of the grid and never were part of the grid. High voltage electric wires are not buried underground and certainly not next to communication cables. Even on dual use poles the communication cables are run several feet below the electric wires.

[Think. Again.]

14. The article does...

...discuss the variety of situations that the lead cables were found including poles, and having communication cables buried or strung on or near any grid related wires that might need to be handled would make the job of removing them more efficient if done when that grid work is done.

[Progressive dog]

15. Modernizing the grid does not

include replacing or removing communication cables. There are regulations about how closely communication wires can be run to electric cables. That is for protection of the communication equipment and the communication consumer, neither one of which would survive grid level voltages.

[Think. Again.]

16. Seems a shame, and inefficient...

...to take on removing the lead cables as a seperate effort from whatever grid work would have to done on the same infrastructure.

[Progressive dog]

17. It seems a shame to confuse the grid with

communication cables.

[Think. Again.]

18. unless I'm mistaken...

..in many stuations, power grid lines and communication cables are buried or strung in close proximity to each other and often using the same "pole" structures as each other.

[Progressive dog]

19. You are mistaken.

They do use the same pole structures in local distributions-if you look at a pole, the grid wires are the highest mounted wires. The lower wires are all communication wires and none use or have ever used lead sheaths on the cables. The only communication cables you will find buried near grid wiring will be optical, containing little metal of any kind'
BTW Where do you expect that lead to be put after removing it from trenches?
We didn't ban lead in food cans till 1994? Can you imagine how much lead is already in landfills?

Lead-formed alloys are typically found in ammunition, pipes, cable covering, building material, solder, radiation shielding, collapsible tubes, and fishing weights. Lead is also used in ceramic glazes and as a stabilizer in plastics. There is an estimated 6.1 million lead pipe service lines for potable water systems still in use in the U.S. creating the potential for lead exposure in drinking water and prompting the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency to work with states and communities to modernize the outdated water infrastructure. Lead was used extensively as a corrosion inhibitor and pigment in paints but concerns over its toxicity led to the CPSC in 1977 to ban the use of lead in paint for residential and public buildings. Prior to the mid-1980s, the organic lead compounds tetramethyl lead and tetraethyl lead were used as an antiknock additive and octane booster in gasoline but environmental exposure concerns resulted in the gradual phase-out of leaded gasoline in the United States. Organic lead compounds continue to be used in high octane fuel in the aviation industry for piston engine aircraft.

[Think. Again.]

20. I don't know about these things, but...

You write: They do use the same pole structures in local distributions-if you look at a pole, the grid wires are the highest mounted wires.

Doesn't that mean I'm not mistaken?

And you write: The lower wires are all communication wires and none use or have ever used lead sheaths on the cables.

The article clearly states that lead covered communication cables are strung on overhead poles in areas that they studied.

I don't know anyhing about how any of these cables are installed in any of the various ways that they are installed, I was just suggesting that since we will need to do some kind of grid improvement (which I know nothing about), it might be wise to remove the lead covered wires wherever they happen to be made accessible by that grid work.