India's first Hydrogen Fuel Cell Intercity Luxury Coach Unveiled

[Caribbeans]

India’s first Hydrogen Fuel cell Intercity luxury Coach unveiled by BharatBenz & Reliance Industries

Vrinda Mehul Pandya | July 22, 2023

Bharat Benz in collaboration with Reliance Industries has showcased an intercity luxury concept coach powered by Hydrogen Fuel Cell technology at the 4th Energy Transitions Working Group meeting under India’s G20 Presidency at Taleigao, Goa.

It is India’s first Hydrogen Fuel Cell intercity luxury coach. It is based on a customized BharatBenz coach chassis and powered by a fuel cell system designed and developed by Reliance Industries, using state-of-the-art components from international partners with significant localization.

Reliance Industries introduced India’s first Hydrogen Internal Combustion Engine technology solution for heavy-duty trucks at the India Energy Week in Bangalore.

The luxury coach will travel approximately 400 km on a single hydrogen fill and can travel long distances between cities on clean fuel. It can also deliver a gross system power of 127 kW and a total power of 105 kW...more
https://e-vehicleinfo.com/indias-first-hydrogen-fuel-cell-intercity-luxury-coach-unveiled-by-bharatbenz-reliance-ind/

India has set its sight on becoming energy independent by 2047 and achieving Net Zero by 2070. To achieve this target, increasing renewable energy use across all economic spheres is central to India's Energy Transition. Green Hydrogen is considered a promising alternative for enabling this transition. Hydrogen can be utilized for long-duration storage of renewable energy, replacement of fossil fuels in industry, clean transportation, and potentially also for decentralized power generation, aviation, and marine transport. The National Green Hydrogen Mission was approved by the Union Cabinet on 4 January 2022.

Intended objectives:

Making India a leading producer and supplier of Green Hydrogen in the world
Creation of export opportunities for Green Hydrogen and its derivatives
Reduction in dependence on imported fossil fuels and feedstock
Development of indigenous manufacturing capabilities
Attracting investment and business opportunities for the industry
Creating opportunities for employment and economic development
Supporting R&D projects..more
https://www.india.gov.in/spotlight/national-green-hydrogen-mission

India (1.4 BILLION) AND China (1.4 BILLION) are now competing to see who can green up first.

Around 1/3 of the entire planet. Astounding. The US is almost a rounding error now.

Real change is on the way - with hydrogen.

At least one poster here is attempting to "Shoot the Messenger" - trying to paint this poster as a ignorant Hydrogen kook - as if I'm making this stuff up or something. It's happening, regardless of who is paying attention.

STM hasn't worked. It is not working now. It will not work in the future.

Shoot the messenger is for children who have no argument.

July 2023: India continues the Hydrogen Energy Revolution

[Alexander Of Assyria]

1. America is not far behind! Will catch up here also! Lot of races starting from behind though.

Indian Railways, largest system in the world, will be green hydrogen powered, it’s a no brainer.
The West can thank the East for eventually saving the planet from their century of unrestrained cheap fossil fuel burning…this new stuff is expensive, but it’s being done….could easily tell West to fuck off and keep burning the same cheap crap carbon 100% day and night to power their own smokestack Industrial Revolution.

You will be welcome.

[msongs]

18. reigning in out of control population growth would be more beneficial than hydrogen busses nt

[OKIsItJustMe]

19. Might want to do a little research...

https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SP.DYN.TFRT.IN?locations=IN

[Alexander Of Assyria]

23. It's not out of control, another myth that won't die...arms control did.

[Hugh_Lebowski]

2. Stop the presses, there's A LUXURY BUS in India that's hydrogen powered, WHOA!

With this amazing new discovery that we can power vehicles with Hydrogen, and the lofty goal that India COULD be net-zero by ... wait for it ... 2070?

The planet is as good as saved!

Did that sound about right?

Seriously though, hydrogen as fuel isn't going to do much to get us out of this climate mess. Too little too late, too inefficient to produce without too many fossil fuel inputs.

Not unless we miraculously discover there's vast reservoirs of H2 just sitting there underground that humanity somehow never noticed, but now we can find a lot of them, and they're super handy to access and exploit.

[Think. Again.]

4. About those vast reservoirs...

"“Using a conservative range of input values, the model predicts a mean volume of hydrogen that could supply the projected global hydrogen demand for thousands of years,” Ellis said." -U.S. Dept of Interior, U.S. Geological Survey.

From: https://www.usgs.gov/news/featured-story/potential-geologic-hydrogen-next-generation-energy

But also, yes, Hydrogen will help us get out of this climate mess, it will allow us the ability to store energy produced from Solar and Wind for use at night and when the wind isn't blowing.

[Hugh_Lebowski]

5. Uh huh ...

I seriously doubt Ellis' statement is accurate if extrapolated to mean 'free hydrogen replacing the energy of fossil fuel resources' when talking about 'global hydrogen demand'.

We've known we could burn hydrogen as fuel for a real, real long time, and we've been sticking straws in the ground to gather energy for almost as long. Pretty sure we'd have noticed 1000 years worth of deposits a real, real long time ago and began leveraging them.

Not buying it based on one quip from someone at USGS and one estimated-to-be-large discovery in France.

[Think. Again.]

7. I understand...

...you're right, it's not a good idea to trust one source of info, even if it is THE U.S. DEPT OF INTERIOR.....

Uncovering hidden reserves of natural hydrogen https://www.advancedsciencenews.com/uncovering-hidden-reserves-of-natural-hydrogen/

Earth's surprising hydrogen stores https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/earths-surprising-hydrogen-reserves-ren%C3%A9-burri

Natural hydrogen migration along thrust faults in foothill basins: The North Pyrenean Frontal Thrust case study https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0883292722002001

Limitless ‘white’ hydrogen under our feet may soon shatter all energy assumptions https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2023/07/13/white-hydrogen-disrupt-global-energy-net-zero/

A Gold Mine of Clean Energy May Be Hiding Under Our Feet https://archive.is/NTDor

The earth might hold huge stores of natural hydrogen – and prospectors are already scouring South Australia for it https://theconversation.com/the-earth-might-hold-huge-stores-of-natural-hydrogen-and-prospectors-are-already-scouring-south-australia-for-it-204904

Natural Hydrogen https://www.subresconsult.com/project/natural-hydrogen

ANALYSIS | Will natural hydrogen extracted from the ground be the next global gold rush?
https://www.hydrogeninsight.com/innovation/analysis-will-natural-hydrogen-extracted-from-the-ground-be-the-next-global-gold-rush-/2-1-1346871

Renewable White Hydrogen: The Key on the Path to Net Zero https://www.beam.earth/white-hydrogen/

Forget Oil. New Wildcatters Are Drilling For Limitless ‘Geologic’ Hydrogen https://www.forbes.com/sites/alanohnsman/2023/06/26/forget-oil-new-wildcatters-are-drilling-for-limitless-geologic-hydrogen/?sh=276e807961c8

The occurrence and geoscience of natural hydrogen: A comprehensive review https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0012825219304787

Characterization of the spontaneously recharging natural hydrogen reservoirs of Bourakebougou in Mali https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-023-38977-y

Bill Gates Backs Stealth Startup with $91M for Hydrogen Revolution. https://carboncredits.com/bill-gates-backs-startup-91m-for-geologic-hydrogen-revolution/

What potential for natural hydrogen? https://www.energy-observer.org/resources/natural-hydrogen

Hidden hydrogen Does Earth hold vast stores of a renewable, carbon-free fuel? https://www.science.org/content/article/hidden-hydrogen-earth-may-hold-vast-stores-renewable-carbon-free-fuel

Those are just a few finds with a quick google search.

[Caribbeans]

11. "We've known we could burn hydrogen as fuel for a real, real long time"

Hydrogen fuel cells don't "burn H2" - it's a chemical reaction

The new H2 bus in India uses fuel cells for the bus pictured above

But anyway, Combustion is NOT the enemy, it's Carbon

Hydrogen combustion will allow the use of millions and millions of dollars worth of equipment in a much cleaner way than with Petrol - without having to junk it all

Those "climate costs" have already been paid and re-using the equipment will save C02 (and lots of $)

[OKIsItJustMe]

8. Batteries work for "diurnal storage" (i.e. solar at night)

Hydrogen would be more helpful for seasonal storage.

NREL: 100% Clean Electricity by 2035 Study

[Think. Again.]

9. ok, let's do it!

[OKIsItJustMe]

10. Read through the plan

It's possible for us to have a clean grid by 2035, but will require a tremendous amount of work.

In 2008, Hansen et al warned us:
Target Atmospheric CO₂ Where Should Humanity Aim?

… if the world continues on a business-as-usual path for even another decade without initiating phase-out of unconstrained coal use, prospects for avoiding a dangerously large, extended overshoot of the 350 ppm level will be dim.
…

Seems pretty clear.


They told us we could do it, but it would take a lot of work.

The most difficult task, phase-out over the next 20-25 years of coal use that does not capture CO₂, is Herculean, yet feasible when compared with the efforts that went into World War II. The stakes, for all life on the planet, surpass those of any previous crisis. The greatest danger is continued ignorance and denial, which could make tragic consequences unavoidable.

So, I’m somewhat skeptical of us putting a clean grid in place by 2035. It’s just too much work!

[Caribbeans]

12. "It's just too much work!"

So was the Manhattan project - which was somehow kept secret for years

"It’s just too much work!" - good thing China doesn't believe that

For example: A national high speed rail network is a huge job.

But they are doing it - while managing to raise millions and millions of people to middle class status

Imagine not spending BILLIONS AND BILLIONS of dollars on war

or blowing up pipelines

It wasn't that long ago that the US was proud of building, not destroying

[OKIsItJustMe]

13. Preaching to the choir here...

I was all in on fighting the “Greenhouse Effect” when I learned about it in the early 70’s.

Jimmy Carter had solar panels put on the roof of the White House.


and Ronald Reagan had them taken down:
The forgotten story of Jimmy Carter’s White House solar panels

Jimmy Carter established the Department of Energy and National Research Labs to pursue renewable energy sources for the 21st century, and Ronald Reagan cut their budgets by about 90%.

NREL: Laboratory History

We could have done it, we chose not to.

[Think. Again.]

14. Has anyone asked Biden...

...why those panels aren't back up there yet?

[OKIsItJustMe]

15. The truth about those panels is...

…they heated water for the White House swimming pool. At that point in time, that really was the most efficient way to make use of solar power (heating water.) The technology had been around for a century, and was widely used before the introduction of “modern” hot water heaters.



My High School “shop class” constructed and installed similar solar panels on the roof of our high school. (No sign of them today…)

Photovoltaic cells just weren’t as efficient as they are today.

So, Jimmy Carter's panels are museum pieces. It might be nice if President Biden installed some state-of-the-art solar panels on the roof of the White House, but, then the Republicans would probably impeach him for it…

[OKIsItJustMe]

16. Barack Obama had new panels installed in 2013

White House is getting solar panels

David Jackson USA TODAY
Published 2:56 p.m. ET Aug. 15, 2013

While President Obama is away on vacation, the White House is getting a new addition.

Solar panels.

Construction workers are busy this week putting the panels in place, the first such installation since Jimmy Carter's presidency.

President Ronald Reagan later had Carter's solar panels removed.

…

[Think. Again.]

17. Thank You!

I didn't know that!

That really should have been all over the news...wait, oh, never mind.

[Alexander Of Assyria]

24. The point of the article is how far the West is behind in new technologies, clinging to fossil.

[NNadir]

27. Hydrogen IS clinging to fossil.

The lie to the contrary is a lie.

If one buys into this bullshit marketing ply, one only deserves a tautology.

[Alexander Of Assyria]

28. If One ignores green hydrogen all arguments are facile.

Another is ignoring that fossil engines are being replaced by not fossil engines in EVs. One more battery means one less carbon burning engine isn’t produced! Ever!

Lot of carbon to produce both, but betting a petroleum engine needs more dirty carbon than a EV battery.

[NNadir]

29. Soothsaying is not reality.

The "green hydrogen" scam is not worth even a tiny fraction of the money being squandered on it.

This scam has been running well over half a century.

[NNadir]

30. As for batteries, the literature suggests that on most US grids...

...EVs have a slightly lower carbon impact in cars, but nothing dramatic, since wild fantasies aside, most grids rely on fossil fuels.

Hybrids are better from an exergy destruction perspective.

Batteries on grids are disasters based on the fraudulent belief that so called "renewable energy" (except for hydro) is a meaningful source of primary energy. It hasn't been, isn't, and won't be.

The energy storage morons have simply relying on the irrational belief that electricity is magically independent from the overwhelmingly dependence on dangerous fossil fuels. They have no idea of what primary energy is, and are nearly as bad and toxic as the hydrogen salespeople and salesbots here.

China has over 100 million electric vehicles, mostly scooters. They effectively simply move pollution from urban areas to rural areas, and climate change is unaffected. In some cases the mortality associated with electric cars (not scooters) is higher than with gasoline cars.

Good luck with finding enough cobalt slaves to change all the world's cars into EVs. It's just another exercise is wishful thinking and delusion from my perspective.

After all this wishful thinking, hand waving and soothsaying, decade upon decade, the planet is in flames.

[Alexander Of Assyria]

31. Car manufacturers, all except Toyota, are spending billions and billions, they all wrong? Or you?

Maybe Toyota is correct to leap straight to hydrogen, but that’s a longer term bet.

Meanwhile I will stick to the scientific and economic belief of the vast majority of scientists and economists.

Cobalt production by wildcat mining in Congo is a colonial relic, the West never gave a fuck until it needed cobalt…China companies moved into Congo cobalt mining long before the West started crocodile tears over black folk in slavery over abundant cobalt…it’s fixable…mor3 money and actual empathy, less fake handwringing.

the former slave owners are not my go to source for tears over black peoples sufferings.

[NNadir]

32. Their business is selling stuff, not environmental protection.

To convince me that one is "sticking" to the "scientific belief (sic) of the vast majority of scientists and economists," one would need to show that one actually reads the scientific literature.

I do.

As such, I can tell who is aware of scientific consensus, and who is just chanting. (This reminds me of past days at Daily Kos, where there were lots of assholes who claimed to believe, the climate scientist Jim Hansen until Jim Hansen said something they didn't like, that nuclear energy saves lives, whereupon the "belief" in Jim Hansen vanished.

Prevented Mortality and Greenhouse Gas Emissions from Historical and Projected Nuclear Power (Pushker A. Kharecha* and James E. Hansen Environ. Sci. Technol., 2013, 47 (9), pp 4889–4895)

One doesn't "believe" in science; it's not a religion.

One is aware of scientific consensus, perhaps, but one does not "believe" in say even the simplest sense, the second law of thermodynamics, the subject of much religious denial here, usually associated with battery bullshit and worse, hydrogen bullshit.

The general term for environmental analysis of technologies is "LCA," life cycle analysis. I've read many thousands of papers on this subject in my 20 year tenure here, and commented on lots of them.

My journal here is filled with references to the primary scientific literature. I have the distinct impression that the majority of the world's scientists do not even remotely believe that a switch to electric cars will save the world.

Of course, science, like all serious human enterprises, is hardly flawless, and treating scientists as if they were deacons, priests, cardinals, or popes is hardly a worthy enterprise. It is also true that science is influenced by the need to get grants, that is money. Thousands of papers have been published on thermochemical processes using concentrated solar energy, not because anyone seriously believes that environmental tragedies like Ivanpah are remotely realistic or sustainable, but because one can get a grant if one states that this is the goal. (Many of these papers are valuable inasmuch as the thermochemical reactions are easily transferable to high temperature nuclear reactors, far more realistic technology, and far less destructive than that gas dependent in flight bird fryer at Ivanpah.)

Lame excuses about whose fault it is that cobalt mining, which exists as a form of slavery today, widely reported by social justice organizations around the world, does not prove that there is sufficient cobalt to satisfy the stupid bourgeois fantasies about a world dominated by electric cars.

What's the excuse for the indifference, that cobalt mined by companies operating in the Congo region that are owned by Chinese do not appear in American batteries?

There are asses here who think that batteries are appropriate on grids. They soothsay about magic battery grids all the time in order to defend the useless solar and wind industries from the reality that they are just that, useless, unreliable, dependent of access to fossil fuels and mining.

Last autumn, I commented on this, using the product of the Apartheid hero Elon Musk to analyze how much cobalt would have been required to cover the month long episode of Dunkelflaute in Germany:

The Number of Tesla Powerwalls Required That Would Address the Current German Dunkleflaute Event. (December, 2022)

We have people here who still worship the fascist Elon Musk and his slave holding company Tesla, who are always carrying on happily about the industrial installation of Tesla Powerwalls®.

Here are the specifications of Tesla Powerwalls®:
Specifications of Powerwalls®.

It is claimed they have a useable capacity of 13.5 kWh after being charged with 14 kWh of electricity, presumably at 25°C, with a putative thermodynamic efficiency - should you choose to believe it - of 96%. The maximum continuous power output is said to be 5 kW. The power requirements to match the combined coal and gas average continuous power of combined German coal and gas over the last 30 days, 44.4 GW would require 8,880,000 million Powerwalls®, to cover each day of Dunkelflaute; for 30 days, given that the wind wasn't blowing that much over that period, 266,400,000 Powerwalls®.

The specifications say that each Powerwall® weighs 114 kg, meaning that 30,369,600,000 kg of Powerwalls® would be required just for Germany.

According to Forbes, 15% of the weight of a Tesla Powerwall is cobalt, mined by Elon's happy Congolese slaves, meaning that the happy Congolese cobalt slaves would be required to mine and isolate 4,555,400 metric tons of cobalt to make Powerwalls® to cover this instance of Dunkleflaute with batteries.

This is 31.63 times as large as the world production of cobalt in 2021 according to the US Geological Survey

I'm sorry!!! I forgot to use "percent talk!" The demand for cobalt to cover month long Dunkleflaute in Germany observed in Nov-Dec 2022 would be 3163% the demand for all the world cobalt supply in 2021.

The calculations are strictly "back of the envelope" but doing calculations of this type can, in my opinion, eliminate the risk of mouthing insane wishful thinking rhetoric.

I will have been at Democratic Underground for 21 years this coming November. I've listened to over two decades of wishful thinking and denial in this space, generally led by antinukes and "I'm not an antinuke" antinukes, none of whom can show that any of the bullshit they hand out is even remotely addressing climate change.

Now here we are: Well over 420 ppm of the dangerous fossil fuel waste carbon dioxide in the planetary atmosphere, over 50 ppm higher than when I joined. Skies all over the world are filled with the smoke of burning ecosystems.

I have the distinct impression that despite all of the bullshit about energy storage - an obscenity in a world where the primary source of primary energy is fossil fuels - that none of the rhetoric I've heard here has addressed the problem. The opposite is true: Things are getting worse faster. The claim that batteries and energy storage is quite literally gas lighting, because right now, in 2023, we are burning more dangerous natural gas than we ever have before, and dumping the waste in the atmosphere while claiming in disasters like Texas and California that solar and wind energy are saving the day.

That's not reality; that's religious chanting.

Or am I missing something? Is the world not burning? Are people not dying in the streets, in valleys, in forests, in fields from extreme heat?

What is very clear is that people everywhere - we're certainly not immune - simply refuse to get serious about climate change and just chant and chant and chant and chant delusional bullshit, attributing the bullshit, unjustly, to the scientific community without showing any evidence of even remote familiarity with the scientific literature.

The scientific literature is not biblical in nature, but many people here, like Christians who don't give a rat's ass about what Jesus said about, say, poverty or tolerance, wish to treat science like bible tracts.

If this approach to science were not so tragic under the circumstances, it would be laughable, but I'm not laughing. There's nothing funny about it.

Have a nice day tomorrow.

[Alexander Of Assyria]

25. The point of the article is how far the West is behind in new technologies, clinging to fossil.

India also sending a moon lander…but western media clings also to the old familiar India is backwards meme…dying meme as we speak.

[Goonch]

3. 👇👇👇👁️👁️

[Alexander Of Assyria]

26. India has almost more highly skied scientists than America has guns.

[Beachnutt]

6. Nikola is building hydrogen fuel cell semi trucks

in Coolidge Arizona and setting up hydrogen infrastructure to support them.
https://www.nikolamotor.com/press_releases/nikola-and-fortescue-future-industries-commit-to-creating-american-green-energy-jobs-with-acquisition-of-nikolas-phoenix-hydrogen-hub/

https://www.nikolamotor.com/press_releases/nikola-and-bayotech-partner-to-advance-zero-emission-hydrogen-delivery/



https://www.nikolamotor.com/press_releases/nikola-launches-first-hydrogen-fuel-cell-truck-mobile-fueler-223/

https://www.nikolamotor.com/press_releases/nikola-celebrates-100-sale-order-milestone-for-nikola-tre-hydrogen-fcev-class-8-truck/

[NNadir]

20. India, less than any other country on Earth, can least afford this fossil fuel wasting scam.

The reliance on coal in India is already obscene, and destroying exergy to make hydrogen from fossil fuels is disgusting.

A Giant Climate Lie: When they're selling hydrogen, what they're really selling is fossil fuels.

Hydrogen is not "green," has never been "green," and never will be "green." It's a fossil fuel bait and switch game that is killing people right now.

The planet is on fire, and fossil fuel salespeople/salesbots greenwashing fossil fuels by rebranding them as hydrogen are marketing the destruction of the planet.

[Think. Again.]

21. You're wrong again...

As you know, Green Hydrogen does not use fossil fuels, that is why it is called "Green".

You are still attempting to gaslight the readers of your posts.

India OKs $2 bln incentive plan for green hydrogen industry
By Sarita Chaganti Singh
January 4, 2023 8:38 AM ESTUpdated 7 months ago

NEW DELHI, Jan 4 (Reuters) - India has approved an incentive plan of 174.9 billion rupees ($2.11 billion) to promote green hydrogen in a bid to cut emissions and become a major exporter in the field, the information minister said on Wednesday.

The move is targeted to help India, one of the world's biggest greenhouse gas emitters, achieve net-zero carbon emissions by 2070. Reuters reported last month about India's plans for a green hydrogen incentive programme.

The country aims for annual production of 5 million tonnes of green hydrogen by 2030, cutting about 50 million tonnes of carbon emissions and saving one trillion rupees on fossil fuel imports, the minister, Anurag Thakur, told reporters.

Full article: https://www.reuters.com/business/environment/india-approves-2-billion-incentive-plan-green-hydrogen-industry-2023-01-04/

[Think. Again.]

22. Here's this... note that "Green Hydrogen" produces no CO2...