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OKIsItJustMe

(19,938 posts)
Thu Jul 27, 2023, 12:20 PM Jul 2023

The Guardian: Joe Biden must declare a climate emergency. And he must do so now

Joe Biden must declare a climate emergency. And he must do so now
Peter Kalmus
Biden had the last opportunity of any president to keep the world under 1.5C of heating. Instead he is squandering time we do not have


Thu 27 Jul 2023 06.13 EDT

We’ve passed into a ferocious new phase of global heating with much worse to come. Biden must declare a climate emergency.

I’m terrified by what’s being done to our planet. I’m also fighting to stop it. You, too, should be afraid while also taking the strongest action you can take. There has never been a summer like this in recorded history: shocking ocean heat, deadly land heat, unprecedented fires and smoke, sea ice melting faster than we’ve ever seen or thought possible. I’ve dreaded this depth of Earth breakdown for almost two decades, and, like many of my colleagues, I’ve been trying to warn you. As hard as I could. Now it’s here.

And mark my words: it’s all still just getting started. So long as we burn fossil fuels, far, far worse is on the way; and I take zero satisfaction in knowing that this will be proven right, too, with a certainty as non-negotiable and merciless as the physics behind fossil-fueled global heating. Instead, I only feel fury at those in power, and bottomless grief for all that I love. We are losing Earth on our watch. The Link to tweet
" target="_blank">Amazon rainforest may already be past its tipping point. Coral reefs as we know them will be gone from our planet by mid-century, and possibly much earlier given this surge in sea-surface temperatures. These are cosmic losses. And as a father, I grieve for my children.

Fossil fuels are causing this damage. Therefore, the only way out of this heat nightmare is to end them. No amount of tree planting, recycling, carbon offsetting, or wishful carbon-capture thinking will ever change this. The longer we allow the fossil fuel industry to exist, the more irreversible damage to Earth the people who profit from it will continue to knowingly cause. We are careening toward fossil-fueled heat waves that will kill over a million people in single events. And it will not plateau there: more fossil fuels, more heat, more death. The only way out is to end fossil fuels.

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The Guardian: Joe Biden must declare a climate emergency. And he must do so now (Original Post) OKIsItJustMe Jul 2023 OP
Toward what end? Biden has done amazing things on climate. bucolic_frolic Jul 2023 #1
Democracy isn't capable of solving this issue ... good example if gas prices are up 30% from now at Hugh_Lebowski Jul 2023 #2
50 Years ago would have been good, but we can't start then, the earliest we can start is now OKIsItJustMe Jul 2023 #5
A good start would include not promoting pabulum from... NNadir Jul 2023 #6
I absolutely agree... Think. Again. Jul 2023 #10
👍🏼 RocRizzo55 Jul 2023 #8
I do what I can for fossil-fuel reduction. I'm an excited fan of EVs Backseat Driver Jul 2023 #4
Biden has made 2 or 3 good first steps, but... Think. Again. Jul 2023 #12
I wish I had hope Easterncedar Jul 2023 #3
It's already too late RocRizzo55 Jul 2023 #7
It IS too late... Think. Again. Jul 2023 #11
Thank you for posting this!... Think. Again. Jul 2023 #9
If you build a one gigawatt nuclear power plant you can replace... hunter Jul 2023 #13
How quickly can you build that 1 GW nuclear plant? OKIsItJustMe Jul 2023 #14
It depends upon the depth and consistency of bullshit you have to wade through, hunter Jul 2023 #15
OK, let's say that all the red tape is removed. OKIsItJustMe Jul 2023 #16
World Nuclear News: Hinkley Point C delayed until at least 2026 OKIsItJustMe Jul 2023 #17
The Palo Verde Nuclear Generating Station in Arizona was built in about ten years. hunter Jul 2023 #19
Guess what? We don't have that kind of time. OKIsItJustMe Jul 2023 #22
Why is something that was possible in the past impossible today? hunter Jul 2023 #23
The plan from the Biden Administration is to have a 100% clean grid in 2035. OKIsItJustMe Jul 2023 #26
But we had thirty years and trillions of dollars to squander on wind and solar to get 1/3 the... NNadir Jul 2023 #24
World Nuclear News: Beloyarsk BN-800 fast reactor running on MOX OKIsItJustMe Jul 2023 #27
World Nuclear News: China's demonstration HTR-PM reaches full power OKIsItJustMe Jul 2023 #28
How much bullshit do you think the builders of the Chernobyl nuclear plant had to wade through? OKIsItJustMe Jul 2023 #18
Um, okay. It's the twenty-first century. hunter Jul 2023 #20
My point is that (hopefully) we would be a little more careful OKIsItJustMe Jul 2023 #21
That's nothing. It took 30 years of cheering and trillions of dollars to build... NNadir Jul 2023 #25

bucolic_frolic

(43,190 posts)
1. Toward what end? Biden has done amazing things on climate.
Thu Jul 27, 2023, 12:32 PM
Jul 2023

Like Congress can pump the brakes? Are they anti-lock?

We're going to ration gas as a way out? How is the economy and people going to get the food and get to work? Having COVID experience shall we shelter in place and ration electric? Don't get me wrong. I live that way, but it's not going to happen on even a 10% of the populace level.

Ridiculous hype in that article. Politics is not going to solve this, if only because it's not workable.

 

Hugh_Lebowski

(33,643 posts)
2. Democracy isn't capable of solving this issue ... good example if gas prices are up 30% from now at
Thu Jul 27, 2023, 12:58 PM
Jul 2023

election time 2024, Biden will probably lose.

And there's little world needs more than much more expensive gas, with high taxes (not for FF company profits IOW) and that tax money being used to build out alternatives to FF's.

But people can't afford it. Petroleum and natural gas are LIFE, it's what this 8B strong throng is MADE of, basically. Without them, there must, by necessity, be many, many less of us.

I think BILLIONS of people dying in the next 50 or so years is baked into the cake at this stage of the game. Humanity dawdled, bought into fossil fuel propaganda (in no small part BECAUSE THEY WANTED TO), and now we're collectively fucked, along with so many innocent non-human species we're going to end up causing the extinction of

We needed to start in earnest, oh, like 50 years ago.

OKIsItJustMe

(19,938 posts)
5. 50 Years ago would have been good, but we can't start then, the earliest we can start is now
Thu Jul 27, 2023, 01:18 PM
Jul 2023

From Global warming in the pipeline — James E. Hansen et al (currently in review)

… These changes will not happen with the current geopolitical approach, but current political crises present an opportunity for reset, especially if young people can grasp their situation.

NNadir

(33,527 posts)
6. A good start would include not promoting pabulum from...
Thu Jul 27, 2023, 01:41 PM
Jul 2023

...antinukes like Mark Z. Jacobson, an asshole who has been calling for the willful destruction of key climate gas free infrastructure.

It's pretty fucking late to wake up, but the reality is that we have lots of fossil fuel promotion on the left: We have bait and switch fossil fuel salespeople/salesbots here rebranding fossil fuels as "hydrogen," and we have antinukes here who refuse to acknowledge the numbers showing that so called "renewable energy" is a failed reactionary scheme that has proved useless.

The only soothsaying in the last three decades has proved to be that of climate scientist and nuclear energy advocate Jim Hansen.

I still don't expect meaningful action. What I expect is more denialist bullshit from denialists of the Jacobson type.

Some of it will be right here.

No amount of information can address dogma.

Think. Again.

(8,189 posts)
10. I absolutely agree...
Thu Jul 27, 2023, 03:17 PM
Jul 2023

As you write, we certainly can't tolerate..

"...an asshole who has been calling for the willful destruction of key climate gas free infrastructure."

We must build out ALL non-CO2 emitting enegy sources as quickly as possible.

Backseat Driver

(4,393 posts)
4. I do what I can for fossil-fuel reduction. I'm an excited fan of EVs
Thu Jul 27, 2023, 01:09 PM
Jul 2023

vehicles, but don't believe safety issues or costs of a switch has adequately been addressed. I support alternative fuel use providers, even if I cannot yet see providers' providing those methods at lower costs to consumers; coal, petroleum and gas industries will see to that failure. I can try to recycle polluting plastics and try to eliminate plastics in shipped and secure product packaging and single-use types, but it would take many years switching what has become so convenient and greedy of resources. None of these attempts on a wider scale will save global populations from the catastrophic disruptions caused now and in the future will change how this is playing out now and worsening toward species' extinction in the food chain future. I fear this is most definitely an ongoing, worsening EMERGENCY for which humans are not prepared for with best solutions even when leadership now and future declares it so!

Think. Again.

(8,189 posts)
12. Biden has made 2 or 3 good first steps, but...
Thu Jul 27, 2023, 03:26 PM
Jul 2023
Biden’s refusal to declare a climate emergency and his eagerness to push new pipelines and new drilling – at an even faster pace than Trump – goes against science, goes against common sense, goes against life on Earth. In the world of politics-as-usual, with its short-term goals and calculus of “safer to follow than to lead”, I suppose there are reasons and rationalizations for this planet-destroying choice. But speaking as a scientist, it seems ignorant and short-sighted. It’s certainly a form of climate denial. And I have no doubt that fossil fuel executives and lobbyists – and those who chose to stand with them – will, in the future, be considered criminals.

Think. Again.

(8,189 posts)
11. It IS too late...
Thu Jul 27, 2023, 03:21 PM
Jul 2023

...to stop the damage that will result from the CO2 we have already emitted.

Our responsibility NOW is to reduce that future damage by reducing and eliminating CO2 emissions from now on.

Think. Again.

(8,189 posts)
9. Thank you for posting this!...
Thu Jul 27, 2023, 03:13 PM
Jul 2023

From the article (I feel this deserves repeating):

Biden had the last opportunity of any president to keep the world under 1.5C of heating. Instead he is squandering time we do not have. -Peter Kalmus

hunter

(38,317 posts)
13. If you build a one gigawatt nuclear power plant you can replace...
Thu Jul 27, 2023, 03:47 PM
Jul 2023

...a gigawatt gas power plant and all the natural gas infrastructure that supports it, AND at least 3 gigawatts nameplate capacity of wind and solar follies and greenwash.

Of course that would disrupt business as usual and be bad for certain people's energy portfolios.

Wind and solar power are not an existential threat to the fossil fuel industry and the fossil fuel industry knows it.

There are a few things we need to do if we want our civilization to survive. We must quit fossil fuels as quickly as possible and we must learn how to relocate entire communities, even across national borders, when global warming makes certain place uninhabitable.

I choose to believe we can accomplish these things, otherwise I wouldn't bother to get out of bed in the morning.

OKIsItJustMe

(19,938 posts)
16. OK, let's say that all the red tape is removed.
Thu Jul 27, 2023, 06:15 PM
Jul 2023

Let's say you have identified a site, suitably connected to the grid. All the funding is in place (and funding for the cost over-runs always encountered by nuclear plants.) Let’s say you've got all your contractors lined up.

Start construction tomorrow. When can you finish?

If Vogtle had gone as planned, it would have taken 7 years.

Don’t tell me you can build a 1 GW plant in a year or two. That's just a fantasy.

How long does it take to build a nuclear power plant? A non-parametric event history approach with P-splines



Introduction

How long does it take to build a nuclear power plant (NPP)? Construction duration is considered a key problem in the planning of NPPs:

“Construction schedules of nuclear power plants, from the first placement of structural concrete to grid connections, have ranged from less than five years to more than twelve years. Achieving short and accurately predicted construction durations is critical to the financial success of any new power plant project.” (International Atomic Energy Agency, IAEA, 2012, p. 1)




OKIsItJustMe

(19,938 posts)
17. World Nuclear News: Hinkley Point C delayed until at least 2026
Thu Jul 27, 2023, 07:32 PM
Jul 2023

If any company knows how to build nuclear power plants, it’s France’s EDF.

Hinkley Point C delayed until at least 2026
27 January 2021

EDF has again revised the schedule and budget for the commissioning of the Hinkley Point C nuclear power plant under construction in Somerset, England. The start of electricity generation from unit 1 is now expected in June 2026, compared with end-2025 as initially announced in 2016. Delays arising from the pandemic will also increase the cost of the project by GBP500 million (USD684 million) to GBP23 billion.

"Despite being affected by the COVID-19 health crisis, Hinkley Point C has made significant progress in 2020 on site, in the design execution plans and on the manufacturing of equipment," the French state-owned company said today. "In this context, a detailed review of schedule and cost has been performed to estimate the impact of the pandemic so far."

This review has concluded that the project completion costs are now estimated in the range of GBP22 to 23 billion (in 2015 prices), which changes the projected rate of return for EDF from 7.6-7.8% to 7.1-7.2%.

The forecast announced today "assumes the ability to begin a ramp up back to normal site conditions from the second quarter of 2021", EDF said, adding that the project is focused on the objective to lift the dome of unit 1 at the end of 2022. In a message to staff broadcast on YouTube, Stuart Crooks, managing director of Hinkley Point C, said everyone on the project is looking forward to that moment.




EDF delays new 1.6 GW Flamanville-3 reactor start-up into Q2 2023
12 Jan 2022 | 10:59 UTC

HIGHLIGHTS
Fuel loading was scheduled to start end-2022

Cost estimate lifted by around 3% to Eur12.7 billion

Cost estimate tripled since construction started 2007

hunter

(38,317 posts)
19. The Palo Verde Nuclear Generating Station in Arizona was built in about ten years.
Thu Jul 27, 2023, 08:39 PM
Jul 2023

Starting in 1976.

That plant is still running. I chose it because it's not located near any major bodies of water or rivers, which might be typical of future nuclear plants.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palo_Verde_Nuclear_Generating_Station

If we woke up and finally recognized that global warming is an imminent threat to our civilization, the construction of a nuclear power plant could be reduced to five years.

I suspect it might be more effective to build smaller mass produced modular reactors, especially high temperature reactors that can be used for chemical synthesis.

I used to be optimistic about wind and solar but it's clear from real world experience with large scale systems that this experiment has failed.

Nuclear power is a mature seventy year old technology.



OKIsItJustMe

(19,938 posts)
22. Guess what? We don't have that kind of time.
Thu Jul 27, 2023, 09:39 PM
Jul 2023

Last edited Thu Jul 27, 2023, 10:31 PM - Edit history (2)

As for nuclear being a "mature seventy year old technology" we're not going to build plants like they did 70 years ago. We want to build “Gen IV” reactors, because they have all sorts of “fail-safe” features that we like.

Wikipedia: Generation IV reactor

How much experience do we have building “Gen IV” reactors? Zip, nada, zilch!

How many “Gen IV” reactor plans have been approved? (Anyone?)

How soon can you get one on-line? How soon can you get a fleet on-line, given that we’ve never built one before? Because, I don’t know if you’ve noticed it or not, but the forests are burning all over the world!


Let's stop speculating, and ask the experts!



2. When will Gen IV reactors be built?

It will take at least two or three decades before the deployment of commercial Gen IV systems. In the meantime, a number of prototypes will need to be built and operated. The Gen IV concepts currently under investigation are not all on the same timeline and some might not even reach the stage of commercial exploitation.

Examples of advanced reactor prototypes (steps towards Gen IV designs) currently under construction:
  • Sodium-cooled reactor technology: BN-800 in Russia under construction at Beloyarsk NPP in Russia (start of operation expected in 2015).

  • High-temperature reactor technology: HTR-PM in China under construction in Shidaowan, China (construction started in January 2013, and start of operation is expected towards the end of 2017).


(Did they make those dates?)


Q: “How long will we have to wait for that fleet of Gen IV reactors to be built?”
A: "Until the twelfth of Never, and that's a long long time!"

hunter

(38,317 posts)
23. Why is something that was possible in the past impossible today?
Thu Jul 27, 2023, 10:22 PM
Jul 2023

In any case, solar and wind power won't save the world.

You can model any sort of renewable energy utopia you like using hard data from California. We have many gigawatts of solar and wind power installed here, and many gigawatt-hours of storage. You can simply subtract out fossil fuels and nuclear power and model how such an electric grid would behave. It's not pretty.

That's not even considering transportation.

I find it very disturbing that we are destroying fragile environments, especially out in the desert, to install solar panels and wind turbines that will not "save the world" or even reduce the total amount of greenhouse gasses we eventually dump in the atmosphere.

These projects will only prolong our dependence on natural gas. They should not be subsidized or celebrated.

The most dangerous energy source in common use, the one that will probably destroy our civilization, is natural gas, not nuclear power.

Solar and wind enthusiasts inevitably have to dismiss this cold reality because natural gas is essential to the economic viability of their follies.

I personally don't have any antipathy to rooftop solar or the solar panels shading the parking lots of our local schools and public building. I have huge objections to large scale solar and wind developments on previously undeveloped land and seascapes.

OKIsItJustMe

(19,938 posts)
26. The plan from the Biden Administration is to have a 100% clean grid in 2035.
Thu Jul 27, 2023, 10:29 PM
Jul 2023

You can't build a single “Gen IV” plant by then. You probably can’t build a single “Gen III+” by then.

Frankly, I think Helion Energy will have a small, but functioning fusion reactor long before we have a “Gen IV” on-line.

NREL has laid out multiple roadmaps to the 100% clean grid: 100% Clean Electricity by 2035 Study Their plans do include nuclear plants.

NNadir

(33,527 posts)
24. But we had thirty years and trillions of dollars to squander on wind and solar to get 1/3 the...
Thu Jul 27, 2023, 10:23 PM
Jul 2023

...energy that nuclear energy has been producing since the 1990's, between 28 and 30 Exajoules.

How much time do we have for the magic solar and wind junk to reach 30 Exajoules from the useless 12 EJ (5 EJ for solar and 7 EJ for wind) to be as effective as nuclear energy?

One of the biggest lies in energy is the lie that building solar and wind junk is faster than building nuclear.

My son, I'm proud to say, is a Ph.D. Student in nuclear materials, studying printing (additive manufacture) nuclear reactors. Most of his fellow graduate students are there to fight climate change, as opposed to lying around, picking lint out of their navels and pretending to give a shit about climate change as long giving a shit doesn't involve approving of stuff that actually works.

How much experience to antinukes have at making sense? How much experience do they have at arresting their stupid chants while the world burns?

Zero in either case.

Here's the numbers and the references:

Where would we be with CO2 without our 3.063 trillion dollar solar and wind infrastructure?

The figure, 3.062 trillion dollar figure in the title comes from this source: Global Trends in Renewable Energy Investment 2020.

The publication information is as follows:

Frankfurt School-UNEP Centre/BNEF. 2020.
Global Trends in Renewable Energy Investment 2020, http://www.fs-unep-centre.org (Frankfurt am Main)
Copyright © Frankfurt School of Finance & Management gGmbH 2020

Here is how I came up with the figures.

I referred to figure 42 on page 62 of the report.

It is reproduced here for convenience:



This table is available as a graphics object only, so I manually transcribed it into an Excel spreadsheet to do calculations.

Note that the time period covered is between 2004 and 2019. Far more money has been and is being squandered on solar and wind right up to the present day of course, but for the purpose of the counterfactual calculations here, this number should suffice.

The reader is invited to check my transcription of the numbers into a spreadsheet, but here they are:

For the numbers in the table, the total amount of money squandered on solar energy amounts to 1671.3 billion dollars, 1.6713 trillion dollars. The last number after the decimal point represents $300,000,000.

For wind, we have the amount of money squandered on it as being 1391.3 billion dollars, 1.3913 trillion dollars. The number after the decimal point represents $300,000,000, three hundred million dollars. That's the scale of the squandering.

The total amount squandered on these two forms of energy between 2004 and 2019 alone is thus 3062.6 billion dollars. (In the title, I rounded up, what's 400 billion dollars between friends?)

Here, from the 2022 World Energy Outlook from the International Energy Agency (IEA) is the amount of energy produced by all forms of primary energy on this planet, a table I often reproduce in this space:



Source: 2022 IEA World Energy Outlook Table A1a, page 435.

By 2021, at a cost of 1.6713 trillion dollars, solar energy was producing just 5 Exajoules of energy on a planet where 624 Exajoules of energy were being consumed.

By 2021, at a cost of 1.3913 trillion dollars, wind energy was producing just 7 Exajoules of energy on a planet where 624 Exajoules of energy were being consumed.

After 50 years, half a century, of mindless cheering, the entire combined solar and wind industry at 12 Exajoules built at these trillion dollar rates, was not even able to cover the increase in the use of dangerous natural gas, coal and oil from 2020 to 2021, an 11 Exajoule increase for dangerous oil, a 7 Exajoule increase for dangerous natural gas, and an 8 Exajoule increase in the use of dangerous coal.

Note that this table does not include reference to hydrogen or to batteries, the two schemes often the subject of popular stupidity designed to put a band aid on the disastrous unreliability of the solar and wind industry, making them even more environmentally odious than they already are.



And what have we here? An antinuke shows up again after years, with the planet burning, crops failing, oceans dying, people dropping dead all over the world from extreme heat to talk about...um...um...um...Chernobyl?

Really?

Chernobyl took place in 1986. The rate of death from just one form of fossil fuel waste, air pollution, not even counting climate change, which may soon be comparable, is 19,000 human beings per day, around 7 million per year.

Reference: : Global burden of 87 risk factors in 204 countries and territories, 1990–2019: a systematic analysis for the Global Burden of Disease Study 2019 (Lancet Volume 396, Issue 10258, 17–23 October 2020, Pages 1223-1249). This study is a huge undertaking and the list of authors from around the world is rather long. These studies are always open sourced; and I invite people who want to carry on about Fukushima to open it and search the word "radiation." It appears once. Radon, a side product brought to the surface by fracking while we all wait for the grand so called "renewable energy" nirvana that did not come, is not here and won't come, appears however: Household radon, from the decay of natural uranium, which has been cycling through the environment ever since oxygen appeared in the Earth's atmosphere.

Here is what it says about air pollution deaths in the 2019 Global Burden of Disease Survey, if one is too busy to open it oneself because one is too busy carrying on about Fukushima:

The top five risks for attributable deaths for females were high SBP (5·25 million [95% UI 4·49–6·00] deaths, or 20·3% [17·5–22·9] of all female deaths in 2019), dietary risks (3·48 million [2·78–4·37] deaths, or 13·5% [10·8–16·7] of all female deaths in 2019), high FPG (3·09 million [2·40–3·98] deaths, or 11·9% [9·4–15·3] of all female deaths in 2019), air pollution (2·92 million [2·53–3·33] deaths or 11·3% [10·0–12·6] of all female deaths in 2019), and high BMI (2·54 million [1·68–3·56] deaths or 9·8% [6·5–13·7] of all female deaths in 2019). For males, the top five risks differed slightly. In 2019, the leading Level 2 risk factor for attributable deaths globally in males was tobacco (smoked, second-hand, and chewing), which accounted for 6·56 million (95% UI 6·02–7·10) deaths (21·4% [20·5–22·3] of all male deaths in 2019), followed by high SBP, which accounted for 5·60 million (4·90–6·29) deaths (18·2% [16·2–20·1] of all male deaths in 2019). The third largest Level 2 risk factor for attributable deaths among males in 2019 was dietary risks (4·47 million [3·65–5·45] deaths, or 14·6% [12·0–17·6] of all male deaths in 2019) followed by air pollution (ambient particulate matter and ambient ozone pollution, accounting for 3·75 million [3·31–4·24] deaths (12·2% [11·0–13·4] of all male deaths in 2019), and then high FPG (3·14 million [2·70–4·34] deaths, or 11·1% [8·9–14·1] of all male deaths in 2019).


That suggests somewhere between 200 million and 300 million dead in the 37 years that whiny antinukes have been carrying on about Chernobyl.

Chernobyl is in Ukraine. Which killed more people in Ukraine, Chernobyl or Putin's war funded by fossil fuel sales to that coal dependent antinuke hellhole Germany?

Now, how about we challenge our antinukes to show, using reputable references, that commercial nuclear power has led to as many deaths from radiation in its 70 year history as will be killed in the next 48 hours from air pollution, fossil fuel waste, that would be about 38,000 people about whom heads up the ass antinukes couldn't care less.

The United States built more than 100 nuclear reactors in about 25 years while providing the lowest cost electricity in the industrial world, and did so when the largest computers were less powerful than a modern cell phone. Many of them still operate, saving human lives.

It's interesting to see historic antinukes show up spewing garbage from barely literate journalists, this while the planet burns, handing out the same line of bull.

I have never thought that antinukes have ever demonstrated a shred of decency, but nothing, absolutely nothing, brings it home more clearly than a planet in flames and people acting as if on a scale of reality, the most important subjects are Chernobyl, Fukushima and even (yes this really happened here in the last couple of weeks) Three Mile Island.

Antinukes have no sense of decency. None. Zero. Zilch.

Nuclear energy need not be perfect nor without risk to be vastly superior to everything else. It only needs to be better than everything else, which it is, certainly superior to the useless, ineffective, slow to build, fossil fuel dependent solar and wind junk.

Chernobyl...

Chernobyl...

The fucking planet is in flames, and still this is taken seriously?

No sense of decency. None.

Have a nice day.

OKIsItJustMe

(19,938 posts)
27. World Nuclear News: Beloyarsk BN-800 fast reactor running on MOX
Thu Jul 27, 2023, 11:23 PM
Jul 2023
Beloyarsk BN-800 fast reactor running on MOX
13 September 2022

Unit 4 of Beloyarsk nuclear power plant with a BN-800 fast reactor has been connected to the grid and resumed operations after being fully loaded with uranium-plutonium mixed oxide (MOX) fuel.

TVEL is the supplier of the MOX fuel to Beloyarsk 4 (Image: TVEL/Rosatom)

The plutonium for this was produced from uranium during the operation of other nuclear power plants and recovered from the used fuel assemblies through reprocessing.
MOX fuel is manufactured from plutonium recovered from used reactor fuel, mixed with depleted uranium which is a by-product from uranium enrichment.

“Full conversion of the BN-800 to MOX fuel is a long-anticipated milestone for the nuclear industry. For the first time in the history of Russian nuclear power, we proceed to operation of a fast neutron reactor with a full load of uranium-plutonium fuel and closed nuclear fuel cycle,” said Alexander Ugryumov, Senior Vice President for Research and Development at TVEL JSC.

“This is the original reason and target why the BN-800 was developed, and why Rosatom built the unique automated fuel fabrication facility at the Mining and Chemical Combine. Advanced technologies of fissile materials recycling and re-fabrication of nuclear fuel will make it possible to expand the resource feed-stock of the nuclear power, reprocess irradiated fuel instead of storing it, and to reduce the volumes of waste.”

​The unit is a sodium-cooled fast reactor which produces about 820 MWe. It started operation in 2016 and in 2020 achieved a capacity factor of 82% despite having an experimental role in proving reactor technologies and fuels.

OKIsItJustMe

(19,938 posts)
28. World Nuclear News: China's demonstration HTR-PM reaches full power
Thu Jul 27, 2023, 11:29 PM
Jul 2023
China's demonstration HTR-PM reaches full power
09 December 2022



The plant features two small reactors that drive a single 210 MWe turbine. It is owned by a consortium led by China Huaneng (47.5%), with China National Nuclear Corporation subsidiary China Nuclear Engineering Corporation (32.5%) and Tsinghua University's Institute of Nuclear and New Energy Technology (20%), which is the research and development leader.

They reported that it had reached "initial full power" on 9 December and "this operating state has verified that all systems of the demonstration project meet the design functions, laying the foundation for the project to be put into operation".

The Huaneng Shidaowan High Temperature Gas-Cooled Reactor Demonstration Project is the world's first pebble bed modular high-temperature gas-cooled reactor, and having achieved the initial full-power operation of the dual reactors and "tested the operation control capability" of it in "two reactors with one machine" mode, the operators describe it as "laying the foundation for future commercial operation".

The first reactor reached first criticality in September 2021 and the second one that November. The connection of the first of the unit's twin reactors took place in December 2021.

OKIsItJustMe

(19,938 posts)
18. How much bullshit do you think the builders of the Chernobyl nuclear plant had to wade through?
Thu Jul 27, 2023, 07:53 PM
Jul 2023

I mean, you know how the Soviets tied things up with “environmental regulations” and “safety concerns” for the Ukrainians. Right? They didn’t even use “containment vessels.” Construction started in 1972, Reactor #1 came on line… in 1977, Reactor #4 came on line… in 1983.

Wikipedia: Chernobyl Nuclear Power Plant - Construction

Can we get real about building nuclear power plants?

hunter

(38,317 posts)
20. Um, okay. It's the twenty-first century.
Thu Jul 27, 2023, 08:45 PM
Jul 2023

Do you really think we're going to build nuclear reactors like that?

OKIsItJustMe

(19,938 posts)
21. My point is that (hopefully) we would be a little more careful
Thu Jul 27, 2023, 09:31 PM
Jul 2023

With nothing slowing them down it took them 5 years to get the first reactor on line.

NNadir

(33,527 posts)
25. That's nothing. It took 30 years of cheering and trillions of dollars to build...
Thu Jul 27, 2023, 10:29 PM
Jul 2023

...a solar energy infrastructure that produced just 5 Exajoules out of 624 Exajoules humanity consumed in 2021.

It's been useless at addressing climate change.

Of course, the purpose of this wasteful exercise at producing vast amounts of future electronic waste was never even remotely connected with climate change. It was about attacking nuclear energy, always was and still is.

Antinukes really don't get to talk about being "careful." Their absolute lack of care has left the planet in flames.

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