Reuters: Ethanol groups slam US EPA advisors for report on fuel's 'minimal' climate benefit

[OKIsItJustMe]

Ethanol groups slam US EPA advisors for report on fuel's 'minimal' climate benefit

By Leah Douglas
September 21, 2023 1:28 PM EDT

WASHINGTON, Sept 21 (Reuters) - The ethanol and corn industries on Thursday slammed an advisory board to the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency for a draft report that found there could be little climate benefit to using corn-starch ethanol as a fuel, compared with gasoline.

The question of exactly how much ethanol cuts emissions over gasoline has divided academics and has created a split in the administration of President Joe Biden over implementation of a tax credit for sustainable aviation fuel.

A working group of the EPA's Science Advisory Board (SAB) concluded in an August draft report that there is "a reasonable chance there are minimal or no climate benefits from substituting corn ethanol for gasoline or diesel."

At a public meeting in Washington, D.C., on Thursday, the full SAB discussed the report and took public comments, including from industry groups.

…

[Think. Again.]

1. Why are they bothering to bicker over this....

...the article quotes the pro-methanol group as saying:

"We adamantly disagree," said Geoff Cooper, CEO of the Renewable Fuels Association, citing findings by the Department of Energy's Argonne National Laboratory that ethanol is 44% lower in emissions than gasoline"

...but our goal is to replace all emissions with emission-free fuels, so obviously methanol isn't worth considering.

[OKIsItJustMe]

2. The motivator here was jet fuel

You’re not going to electrify a “jetliner,” unless there is some dramatic breakthrough. Liquid fuels are very energy dense. So, if you want to continue flying (and that’s a “big if”) you need to find a way to produce alternative fuels. They might be “electrofuels” in the future, but “biofuels” like ethanol are available today.

The issue is, once you take everything involved in producing ethanol (running tractors, running ethanol plants…) the benefits are questionable. However, there are a lot of people (e.g. corn farmers) who make money from ethanol.


U.S. corn-based ethanol worse for the climate than gasoline, study finds

By Leah Douglas
February 14, 20225:12 PM EST

Feb 14 (Reuters) - Corn-based ethanol, which for years has been mixed in huge quantities into gasoline sold at U.S. pumps, is likely a much bigger contributor to global warming than straight gasoline, according to a study published Monday.

The study, published in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, contradicts previous research commissioned by the U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) showing ethanol and other biofuels to be relatively green.

President Joe Biden's administration is reviewing policies on biofuels as part of a broader effort to decarbonize the U.S. economy by 2050 to fight climate change.

“Corn ethanol is not a climate-friendly fuel,” said Dr. Tyler Lark, assistant scientist at University of Wisconsin-Madison Center for Sustainability and the Global Environment and lead author of the study.

…

[Think. Again.]

4. Whatever we're powering......

...the goal is still emission-free power.

Beyond Aero is building a hydrogen-powered jet https://techcrunch.com/2023/09/19/beyond-aero-is-building-a-hydrogen-powered-jet/

[OKIsItJustMe]

6. Yes, there are small hydrogen (and battery) powered planes being built

However, they are small, short-haul aircraft.

From the article:

…

Beyond Aero’s current focus is on getting its demonstrator into the air and testing its core assumptions. After that, it will start work on the business jet. Given the massive carbon emissions of business aviation per passenger mile flown, the team believes that this isn’t just technologically achievable but also a massive market that is asking for an alternative to today’s jet fuel–burning engines. “We want to meet a market with clients that have a problem with the public image [of private jet ownership], personal conviction or ESG goals of their company,” Chomel said. Those clients have millions of dollars available to buy a Falcon or Gulfstream, but those players don’t offer any alternatives either.

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[Think. Again.]

7. At the moment...

...but as the article states:

"The vision is significantly broader, though, with plans to launch a commuter jet and potentially even larger planes in the future."

[OKIsItJustMe]

8. A commuter jet is a far cry from a jetliner

A battery powered jetliner is pretty much impossible. A hydrogen powered jetliner may be in the future, however, even a hydrogen powered jetliner has climate concerns.

Inside Climate News: Airbus Hopes to Be Flying Hydrogen-Powered Jetliners With Zero Carbon Emissions by 2035

The company says it is studying three designs for commercial air travel, but a host of complex problems remain related to producing “clean” hydrogen fuel.

By Leto Sapunar
October 27, 2020

The aerospace giant Airbus hopes to put a hydrogen-powered commercial airliner in the sky that will release zero carbon dioxide emissions in the atmosphere. But not until 2035.

While 15 years might seem like a long time for research and development given the urgent need to reduce carbon emissions under the Paris climate agreement, processing and storing “clean hydrogen” requires solving an array of complex technical challenges. Three early design concepts the company is studying would run off of hydrogen and oxygen fuel and have no carbon exhaust. But that doesn’t mean they won’t affect the climate at all.

…

Burning hydrogen produces water, which comes out of the engines as a vapor that, especially at high altitudes, acts as a greenhouse gas.

Recent studies have shown that contrails—the white streaks of condensed water that follow jets across the sky—have a significant climate impact. Still, these hydrogen-powered designs could significantly limit the total warming that airlines cause by reducing or eliminating the carbon dioxide they emit. Airlines accounted for more than 2 percent of global CO2 emissions in 2018, with the total contribution of contrails and the various pollutants from commercial aviation driving about 5 percent of warming globally.

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[Think. Again.]

9. You're always such a 'negative Nancy'.

[OKIsItJustMe]

12. I like to think of my self as being a member of the "reality based community"

https://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/reality-based-community

[Think. Again.]

13. Consistently searching for...

...any angle to dispute or correct or denigrate any given post is not very reality based.

[OKIsItJustMe]

14. I'm sorry I've given you that impression

I try to avoid “Irrational Exuberance.”

We got into the situation we’re in because for better than 40 years, people were not willing to deal with reality. Either there was not problem, or it wasn’t really that serious, or there was an easy technological fix of some sort.

[Think. Again.]

15. We were not discussing...

...the timeline of climate change awareness.

[OKIsItJustMe]

16. Tell me again, what were we discussing?

The thread is titled “Ethanol groups slam US EPA advisors for report on fuel's 'minimal' climate benefit”

[Think. Again.]

17. (deep sigh.)

[mopinko]

3. y corn? y not hemp, algae,

or is all the talk about that stuff just vapor?

[OKIsItJustMe]

5. Hemp may be helpful in the future

I am skeptical. One of the most straight-forward ways to get biofuel is seed oil, but what percentage of a plant is seeds? Another possibility is “cellulosic ethanol.” We’ve been hearing about “cellulosic ethanol” for decades. How much is being produced? However, let’s say that the most optimistic claims are verified. How soon can we create the number of farms that would be necessary, the processing plants, etc?

In theory, algae oil is quite promising, since for some strains of algae, up to 80% of its “dry weight” is oil! However, the drive for algae oil seems to have petered out. It works well enough in a small lab-scale operation, but…

Department of Energy: Barriers to Scale: Algae Crop Protection Workshop Summary Report

CleanTechnica: Exxon Shuts Down Algae Fuel Research Program

Exxon has pulled the plug on its green fuels from algae research after 15 years. Was it ever real or just a PR stunt?
By Steve Hanley Published February 14, 2023

In 2009, Exxon began a research program designed to extract fuels that could be used to power internal combustion engines from algae. In the intervening years between then and now, it has spent almost as much money bragging about the research as it has on the research itself. Now, according to Bloomberg (paywall), it has quietly shut down the program. There will be no more touchy-feely ads from Exxon touting how it is helping to solve the problem of an overheating planet — overheating caused in large part by the company itself via its insatiable quest for profits.

Did you read about this in the mainstream press? No, neither did I. But Bill McKibben found out about it and shared the news with his readers this week. After making a record $59 billion in profits in 2022, the company has decided it has milked the green fuel from algae lie long enough and shut the program down.

The program was always a scam — a “scum scam” as McKibben wryly calls it. He notes that researchers early on noted that the price of oil would need to hit $500 a barrel before algae fuels would be cost competitive. A trial at Swansea University in Wales showed that to supply 10% of Europe’s transport fuel needs with algae would require growing ponds three times the size of Belgium.

According to Climate Commentary, meeting the needs of the UK for transportation fuels would require covering 18% of all its agricultural land with algae ponds. Already by 2020, Exxon was admitting that at best it would produce about 10,000 barrels of algae fuel a day — 0.2% of its daily output of oil.

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[NNadir]

11. Sigh...

One hears these tired chants and one doesn't really want to believe it.

[NNadir]

10. The main result of this scam has been the destruction of the Mississippi delta...

...biosphere by eutrophication.

I once attended a lecture at Princeton University by Jerald Schnoor, former editor of Environmental Science and Technology who, remarked that he was absolutely grateful for tenure. His academic institution is the University of Iowa.

Like almost all of the "renewable energy will save us" reactionary bullshit that flies around while the world burns the reality is very different than what's advertised.

Phosphate ores are by the way, decidedly not "renewable." Depletion of these ores is yet another legacy of wanton destruction we are leaving future generations.

Years ago, here at DU we had an ethanol salesperson posting here, much like the "fossil fuels disguised as hydrogen" salespeople and salesbots we have now.