E-scooter fires rise - fire chiefs warn of lithium battery dangers - UK Channel 4 News

[Caribbeans]

Sep 30, 2023: Fire chiefs in London have warned people not to charge their e-scooter or e-bike while they are asleep, and to only use the correct charger, after a man was left with life-changing burns when he tried to tackle an e-bike fire.

Across the country, authorities are becoming increasingly concerned about the dangers of these blazes in lithium batteries - which are particularly hard to put out.

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Today's batteries are not green in any way. And they are a potential hazard to everyone. EVERY SINGLE BATTERY MADE TODAY will die in ~10, 12 years and need replacement. In 2023, recycling of Li-Ion batteries is not green either, and expensive.

[Think. Again.]

1. Unfortunately...

...we will be needing the current battery tech that we have to move away from fossil fuels as quickly as possible.

But luckily, as you mentioned, we'll have about 10-12 years of progress on better battery systems before we have to change out the ones we're using today!

[OKIsItJustMe]

2. The Guardian: Four more people just died in an e-bike fire. If nothing changes, they won't be... last

Four more people just died in an e-bike fire. If nothing changes, they won’t be the last

Wilfred Chan
Thu 22 Jun 2023 06.00 EDT

Battery fires put gig workers at particular risk – but safer alternatives are often out of reach

Twisted mountains of charred bikes, scooters, wheels, and battery casings. The distinctive, acidic smell of burnt chemicals. And where delivery workers once stood in line chatting while waiting for repairs, now blackened ruins and a somber crowd of neighbors behind police tape. This was the scene – one that’s become horrifyingly common – after yet another deadly lithium battery fire in New York City.

Four people, including a 71-year-old man and 65-year-old woman, died in the inferno just after midnight on Tuesday – the latest victims of a growing problem that’s now claimed the lives of 13 people this year in the nation’s densest city, compared with six such deaths in all of 2022. The fires are caused by the cheap, dangerous electric batteries powering the two-wheeled devices that the city’s 65,000 delivery workers use to meet the demands of Silicon Valley gig platforms. And without decisive action, more carnage is guaranteed.

…

While the fire department advises that people only use batteries that have been certified by UL Solutions, a rigorous safety testing lab, e-bikes that use these batteries easily cost thousands of dollars. That’s beyond reach for most delivery workers and immigrant city dwellers, who tend to buy no-name vehicles, batteries and chargers, for a fraction of the cost. Walk into one of New York City’s e-bike shops and you’ll often see rows of these batteries juicing up side by side on overloaded power strips. But even if they’re not being charged, batteries stored in tight quarters can still catch fire and cause a chain reaction.

…

[Blues Heron]

3. if they prevent someone from buying a gasoline car they are pretty green

they are offsetting an entire 3000 lb vehicle and the gas needed to push it around. Cheap lithium scooters are an absolute godsend. Any city that doesnt embrace them as a transit option is making a big mistake.

[Think. Again.]

5. and that's not to mention...

...all of the deaths and injuries of workers in the fossil fuel industry and the public, from drilling to refining, to gasoline and natural gas accidents.

[OKIsItJustMe]

6. My fear is that e-bikes & scooters are more prone to replace standard bicycles & scooters than cars

That’s an ecological loser.

[Blues Heron]

7. thats not how they are working out in practice.

With fleets of bikes and scooters available people are not buying cars the way they used to. As long as you make it safe for them people will ride them. Helps everything - fewer people on the bus, fewer cars on the road, fewer cars parking etc. This is in an urban context of course. In the burbs all bets are off, but even there bike lanes can coax people out of their cars and onto e-bikes and scooters. I see young family types with massive cargo ebikes with buckets of kids up front.

[OKIsItJustMe]

8. Do you have studies and/or statistics to support this?

I haven’t witnessed it personally, but that doesn’t prove anything.

[Blues Heron]

9. Just my assesment of the transit situation over the last ten years of this boom

Its remarkable to see. The other thing that really helps is share cars - Free2move, Car2go, Zipcar, etc. etc. There is no need for a lot of people to own their own personal car. As a result parking is easier than its ever been, despite many parking spaces removed to accommodate bike lanes.

But the scooters are a game changer for so many people - a true godsend.

[OKIsItJustMe]

11. Here are some numbers... Are they accurate? I don't know...

https://www.ebicycles.com/ebike-facts-statistics/

• According to a survey conducted by Transport of London, 20% of London residents who don’t ride a bicycle say that they don’t do it because they are too old or unfit to do so.
• According to the same survey, 28% of e-bike riders bought their e-bike as a substitute for a car.
• A study found that completing a journey on an electric bicycle was 21% faster than on a traditional bike on average. The median speed was 23.1 km/h for E-bike and 18.4 km/h for a traditional bicycle.
• A government survey in Copenhagen—where 62% of people ride a bike to work, school, or university—found that 49 percent of people said that their main reason for cycling was because it was faster.
• According to Mordor Intelligence, some of the most common reasons for embracing e-bikes are the health and environmental benefits, reduction in costs, avoidance of traffic jams, and the increase in demand for e-bikes as sports equipment among youth.

[orthoclad]

10. It's the "cheap" lithium batteries

that are catching fire.

An article about NYC scooter/bike fires pointed out that it's the cheap low QAQC batteries that catch fire. Since they're a fraction the cost of good quality batteries, the poorer people who use the bikes and scooters buy the cheap ones and cross their fingers. There should be an incentive to afford good batteries, and the dangerous ones should be taken off the market.

[OKIsItJustMe]

12. You mean this article?

2. The Guardian: Four more people just died in an e-bike fire. If nothing changes, they won't be... last

[Blues Heron]

14. The good thing about fleets of shared scooters is they do the charging for you

at the facility, then they go around and swap out the depleted batteries for freshly charged ones. Then they can keep an eye on the charging and do it right with the right charger. Any lithium battery needs to be charged with care, as we know, plenty of laptops have gone up in flames. Bad quality ones need to really be cracked down on absolutely.

[OKIsItJustMe]

4. Angewandte Chemie International Edition: Efficient and mild: recycling of used lithium-ion batteries

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1127167974

[oldfart73]

13. Electric car fire... extremely hard to extinguish.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/-Mz6lgAaIe4

[orthoclad]

15. It's not the car, it's the battery

the "electric" part is fine.

I've seen people use "BEV" (battery electric vehicle) for those cars which use huge lithium batteries. The "electric" part, the "EV", could be powered by fuel cells, for instance. Like we've been using in the space program since the 1960s.

I have big problems with cars loaded with ton-weight lithium batteries. They're hazardous, mining all those metals is environmentally and socially unjust, and you wind up using a large part of the charge just to move the battery around.

I drive a compromise, a PHEV, plug-in hybrid electric. I bought gas 6 months ago, and still have a half tank. Most of my driving uses the small 50-mile battery which I charge from my solar panel production. The hybrid engine removes range anxiety.

I'm waiting for a fuel cell or solar car like the Aptera. With hub motors and no transmission, gears, or fluids.

Any electric car will wind up using SOME battery power, but we can minimize it.

Public transit's a good idea, too, once infection anxiety is low.

[OKIsItJustMe]

16. Indeed

Some chemistries (e.g. LFP, BM-LMP) are safer than others (e.g. NMC). However, there’s a great deal of weight involved with all of them.

Lighter batteries (e.g. Lithium-Metal, Zinc-Air) are on the horizon.

Hydrogen is famously flammable, but (IMHO) no more dangerous than gasoline (which we treat as an acceptable risk.)

I’m afraid however that the issue may be moot. https://climatereanalyzer.org/clim/t2_daily/?dm_id=world