Just argued a lot with some pro-GMO people at Reddit

[Arcana]

Surprisingly, the environmental group there seems severely pro-GMO and equates it with "pro-science" and anti-GMO concerns as "anti-science".

Some of their most common points are that:

-GMOs have been tested safety for decades with no ill effects.

-GMOs, such as BT toxin producing ones have decreased the amount of pesticides used and there is no evidence their pollen harms beneficial insects, and that there were studies that suggested otherwise but they are from groups that have been dishonest about their methods and results such as CRIGEN.

-Jeffery Smith is a loon who thinks he can fly. Micheal Pollan doesn't have a science degree and most other anti-GMO activists aren't biologists and Union of Concerned Scientists is powered by ideology.

-The scientific consensus that proves the safety of GMOs is of equal strength to the consensus that proves anthropogenic climate change and many of the same scientific commissions and groups that support GMO safety also support man-made climate change.

-That scientist that recently got attention for showing rats with large tumors from eating Monsanto corn has witheld a lot data in the past.

-There is no difference between implanting a foreign gene into an organism and that organism instead having a mutation that is then passed on to offspring.

-GMO crops will help feed impoverished people.

-GMO crops have reduced soil erosion.

-There are no farmers that have been harmed by GMO patents and it's just exaggeration.

Basically all this "official stance" stuff.

What do you think?

[Angry Dragon]

1. you ran across a big herd of idiots

that escaped from their mothers' basement

[roody]

2. If GMOs are so wonderful,

why do they insist that they be kept secret? Search this site and you will find lots of info in threads about CA prop 37. The GMO fans are here as well.

[AverageJoe90]

3. Yeah, I'm no fan of GMOs either.

Honestly, I'm not entirely totally against genetic research, but it's clear to me that it's still in its infancy and that large-scale implementation has pretty much been a failure thus far. Sadly, Monsanto and their buddies still have a damn lot of influence and it just may take a real disaster to get the public to finally push back against them(I hope not, but.....).

[JoeyT]

4. The problem with the BT toxin producing plants isn't harming beneficial insects.

It's that it's creating a resistance to BT so BT isn't working on some stuff anymore. The selective pressure to evolve resistance is just too strong.

It's possible that rotating them out every few years would keep resistance to a minimum, since it would decrease the pressure for resistance, but eventually resistance will become high enough that it will stop working on many insects entirely. Then we're going to have to switch to pesticides that are much more dangerous to humans.

My gripe with GMOs isn't the modification itself: Genetic modification can and will do a lot of good. My objection is that many of the companies that control it are vile. Same as my objection to nuclear energy, basically. I don't trust the people in charge of it, nor do I trust the people that are allegedly regulating them.