Tesla Achieves Profitability, Selling 4,750 Luxury Electric Cars in Three Months

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"Tesla Motors, a federally backed producer of high-end electric cars, says it’s making money.

The company announced late Sunday that it became profitable in the first quarter of 2013 after better-than-expected sales of its Model S sedan. Tesla said it sold more than 4,750 Model S sedans in the first quarter, up from the prior forecast of 4,500.

“There have been many car startups over the past several decades, but profitability is what makes a company real. Tesla is here to stay and keep fighting for the electric car revolution,” CEO Elon Musk said in a statement Sunday."

http://thehill.com/blogs/e2-wire/e2-wire/291133-obama-backed-automaker-tesla-motors-turns-a-profit#ixzz2PFSi0wWm

[OKIsItJustMe]

1. I wish them much luck

I think their sales increase simply reflects general market conditions for expensive cars, but hey, a profit is much better than a loss!

http://www.forbes.com/sites/greatspeculations/2013/04/01/gm-and-other-auto-majors-hit-overdrive-in-the-u-s-luxury-car-market/

[font face=Serif]4/01/2013 @ 1:11PM

[font size=5]GM And Other Auto Majors Hit Overdrive In The U.S. Luxury Car Market[/font]

By Gina Chon — March 27, 2013

[font size=3]The American luxury car market is heating up. With the European auto market in free fall, the onus to generate profits falls largely on the U.S. and China.

The American car market has rebounded strongly after crashing in 2009. The luxury car market jumped 12% to 1.6 million units in 2012 and sales for 2013 are expected to be strong as well, as the initial data suggests. Luxury cars have fatter margins than mainstream cars and therefore it is not surprising to see major automakers revamping their portfolios of more expensive cars.

In the last few years, American automakers have been troubled by bankruptcy proceedings and restructuring activities. Similarly, the Japanese auto companies’ finances had been hit hard by events beyond their control. Now, as their operations have relatively stabilized, they can focus on resuscitating their luxury brands.

Who’s Doing What?

Last year, General Motors laid out an ambitious plan to double the Cadillac sales within the next three years. Although its sales were flat in 2012 (~150,000 units), they began to pick up after the new ATS and the XTS were introduced. In fact, Cadillac’s sales were up 32% in the first two months of 2013. The company also announced recently that the 2014 version of the CTS will be powered by a solid 420 horsepower V-6 engine. This news is already creating a buzz within the automobile community.

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[Fumesucker]

2. I don't think most people realize just how powerful the Tesla feels..

Not only is it amazingly powerful, the electronic control systems allow it to put the maximum amount of power to the road for optimum possible acceleration, that happens when the drive wheels are slipping just slightly, the Tesla is sophisticated enough to hold that point, all the driver has to do is mash the accelerator pedal.

Watch as a 4600 pound four door, five passenger Tesla luxury car with all the amenities wastes a Dodge Viper two passenger sports car with a V10 in a drag race. At the end of the quarter mile the Viper is starting to catch up a bit which shows it actually has a better power to weight ratio but it's much more difficult for the Viper driver to actually use that superior power.

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3. LOL

Thanks for that. Do you own one?

[Fumesucker]

6. I have an EV but it's not quite a Tesla

Last edited Tue Apr 2, 2013, 11:25 PM - Edit history (1)

I spend a good bit of time on an EV forum and the Tesla gets discussed a great deal, the car is truly innovative and most everyone that really knows EVs first hand seems to think it's going to be the vehicle that introduces electric power to transportation in a big way.

It's made in the USA, it's competitive if not superior to luxury cars in its price class from anywhere, it has enough power to accelerate at the limits of traction and it has decent if not overwhelming range.

The fastest model does 0 to 60 in 3.9 seconds and 12.371 @ 110.84 MPH in the quarter mile, that was pretty serious hopped up muscle car numbers back in the day, especially the 0 to 60, that's brutal, almost like a rocket sled.

http://www.dragtimes.com/blog/category/tesla

Edited for correct quarter mile time, I put 2 when I meant 12.

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7. Sign of the times

In an aisle at a nearby grocery store lot last week were three electric cars: my Leaf, and two Teslas.

Even in the Leaf the pickup is amazing. I drove Nissan's "mule" (a Sentra with Leaf innards) during product development around a test course at Dodger Stadium, and I was sold.

[OKIsItJustMe]

4. I think your description shows one of the major drawbacks of battery electrics

…

Watch as a 4600 pound four door, five passenger…

As the range of a battery powered vehicle increases, it becomes more of a vehicle for transporting batteries than people.

The Dodge Viper weighs 3300 pounds. At 4,647.3 pounds, the Tesla Model S weighs about as much as a Hummer H3.

[Fumesucker]

5. Most luxury four door sedans aren't that far off the weight

For instance a Lexus LX 460 is 4250 lb.

A Viper carries two passengers, on a weight per passenger basis the Tesla spanks it, 4600/5=920 while 3300/2=1650 lbs per passenger.

Batteries are constantly improving also, either the weight will fall or the range will increase for the same weight as power density increases.

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8. The Model S has optional seating for up to 7

"The Tesla S offers a very unique 5 + 2 seating configuration with an optional rear-facing jump seat. These bucket seats have 5-point seat belts and should be comfortable for children under age 10. The seats fold flat when not in use."



Pretty cool. Like a minivan, but...no, not at all like a minivan.

[OKIsItJustMe]

9. The battery in the Tesla Model S weighs 1200 pounds

http://www.roperld.com/science/TeslaModelS.htm


Let’s compare it to a LEAF:
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2013-tesla-model-s-test-review

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10. How much does the generator, the alternator, the muffler, the radiator,

the fuel injectors, the fuel...how much do they weigh?

Oh yeah! There aren't any!

You don't give up, do you?

[OKIsItJustMe]

11. How much do the fuel injectors weigh in a normal automobile?

Let’s be serious…

Why do you think Nissan doesn’t offer a LEAF with a 200 mile range?

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12. Yes, let's be serious.

You've already been shown that the overall weight is comparable, yet you refuse to give up with your attacks on electric vehicles. I'll defer to people who know what they're talking about:

2013 Motor Trend Car of the Year
2013 Automobile Magazine Autmobile of the Year
2013 World Green Car of the Year - New York International Auto Show

You should let the experts know about all the drawbacks you've found.

[OKIsItJustMe]

13. Yes, yes…

I do wish them luck. I really do. However, the most “luxurious” thing about it is the price.

Seriously: Why do you think Nissan doesn’t offer a LEAF with a 200+ mile range?

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14. Different price point.

In under 5 years, they will.

[OKIsItJustMe]

15. Maybe they will, maybe they won’t

http://www.technologyreview.com/view/510416/ford-daimler-and-nissan-commit-to-fuel-cells/

[font face=Serif]
Martin LaMonica
January 28, 2013
[font size=5]Ford, Daimler, and Nissan Commit to Fuel Cells[/font]

[font size=4]The partnership to jointly develop fuel cell vehicles by 2017 signals the renewed interest in hydrogen-powered cars and the need to collaborate in auto industry.[/font]

[font size=3]A long-running joke in the auto industry is that fuel cell vehicles are the technology of the future—and always will be. But that may not ring true a few years from now.

Ford, Renault-Nissan, and Daimler today said they will jointly develop technology to make “affordable, mass-market” fuel cell vehicles by 2017, investing equal amounts into the effort. This partnership follows a similar joint development deal between BMW and Toyota announced last week and commitments to fuel cell vehicles by Hyundai and Honda last year. (See, Hydrogen Cars: A Dream that Won’t Die < http://www.technologyreview.com/news/429495/hydrogen-cars-a-dream-that-wont-die/ >.)

By collaborating on the fuel cell stack and other system components, Ford, Daimler and Renault-Nissan hope to improve the technology and produce at a large scale. With a higher production volume, these automakers will get to economies of scale and offer more affordable cars, says Daimler board member Thomas Weber.

…

Sales of battery-electric vehicles, such as the Nissan Leaf, are gated by the limited range they offer and the relatively high purchase price. By contrast, fuel cell vehicles can offer a longer range and fuel cell powertrains can be used on larger vehicles, Nissan board executive Mitsuhiko Yamashita says.

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[Fumesucker]

16. The Tesla is just as electrically efficient or perhaps even more so as the Leaf

The difference is that that the Tesla is big enough that the battery capacity necessary for performance stays a relatively smaller portion of the weight while at the same time also giving added range if driven normally.

Essentially the Tesla has more battery capacity per unit of drag resistance, both rolling and aerodynamic than does the Leaf so it will go further on a charge.

Larger vehicles are more efficient in terms of energy used per distance traveled. An 18 wheeler with 40 tons on can get around 8 mpg these days, if your average car weighs 3000 lbs or 1.5 tons then it should get 40/1.5=26.6 times as good a mileage or 213 mpg.

[OKIsItJustMe]

17. Greater range means more weight, and more expense

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/02/04/us-autos-electric-hydrogen-idUSBRE91304Z20130204

[font face=Serif][font size=5]Insight: Electric cars head toward another dead end[/font]

By Norihiko Shirouzu and Yoko Kubota and Paul Lienert
TOKYO/DETROIT | Mon Feb 4, 2013 1:13am EST

[font size=4] (Reuters) - Are electric cars running out of juice again?[/font]

[font size=3]…

The public's lack of appetite for battery-powered cars persuaded the Obama administration last week to back away from its aggressive goal to put 1 million electric cars on U.S. roads by 2015.

The tepid response to EVs also pushed Nissan's high-profile chief executive, Carlos Ghosn, perhaps the industry's most outspoken proponent of battery cars, to announce in December a major strategic shift toward more mainstream gasoline-electric hybrids, which overcome many of the shortcomings of pure EVs.

The move was widely seen as a tacit acknowledgement by Ghosn that his all-or-nothing, multibillion-dollar bet on EVs is falling far short of his ambition to sell hundreds of thousands of battery-powered Nissan Leafs.

Instead, Nissan plans to follow rival Toyota Motor Co, the world's largest purveyor of hybrids, which now is poised to leapfrog pure EVs altogether to pursue what might be the next big green-tech breakthrough: pollution- and petroleum-free fuel-cell cars that convert hydrogen to electricity.

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[Fumesucker]

18. You assume that technology will not improve, that's a flawed assumption

There's a great deal of battery research going on and they're getting better and cheaper all the time.

My Lithium Iron Phosphate battery, LiFePo, is going on six years old and still has 70% of original capacity after leading a hard life.

Larger vehicles tend to have longer range, it's true with ones that run from fuels just as much as electricity.

Most people don't know or care what's under the hood, they want to get in and drive at the least cost and hassle possible, for now that's fuel powered cars for the great majority, conditions change however and they're changing now.

Electric cars eliminate many of those smaller expenses and little hassles about fuel powered cars, regenerative braking means brake pads and rotors last much longer, no oil to change, no filters to change, no radiator fluid to change, no transmission fluid to change, no belts to break.

I can see a point not too far in the future when the equation changes to make electric a better overall choice for many people, it certainly won't be for everyone any time soon though.

[OKIsItJustMe]

19. You make flawed assumptions about my assumptions

Here’s my assumption:

Pick a battery technology (make it today’s or tomorrow’s I don’t care.)

To make a battery-powered car with greater range will require a larger battery, which means greater weight and greater cost.

[Fumesucker]

20. You can say the same for fuel

Takes a larger fuel tank which weighs more (particularly when full) and costs more.

I suspect electric cars are going to last a long time, upgrading batteries may be economically justifiable to put smaller and lighter or greater capacity batteries in existing EVs, I already see a lot of that going on in the enthusiast community. Indeed I'm about to upgrade my own battery for considerably increased performance and greater range within the next few months.

[OKIsItJustMe]

21. A fuel tank which has twice the volume does not need twice the materials

Let’s say a tank is cubicle (for purposes of illustration.)

To double the volume, the dimensions of the cube will need to be 2[small]^(1/3)[/small] times longer. (Right?)

The area of the sides of the cube will increase by 2[small]^(2/3)[/small] (about 1.6.)

So, unless we increase the thickness of the tank walls…

Then again the cost of a metal fuel tank is negligible compared to the cost of a battery of similar energy capacity.