BMW I3 looks like a VERY important milestone

[BlueStreak]

It could become as important a milestone as the original Prius.

What is it? It is basically a Chevy Volt in more of a minicar package with all the right numbers. It is either EV-only or serial hybrid, with a small 2-cylinder engine extending the range. The key is that the battery-only range is 80-100 miles on a charge. That is huge. That pushed the vehicle right into the sweet spot where most people could use it daily and rarely have to fire up the gas engine.

So it goes way beyond the Volt in the battery-only power. It is in the range of the Leaf, but has the gas engine option to eliminate any range anxiety issues. And the price, I believe, will be substantially below the Volt.

It is a small vehicle, but doesn't appear to be ridiculously tiny, like the "Smart". Looks to me like it is bigger than a Fiat 500 or Mini Cooper.

I'm not saying that BMW will sell 20 million of these things, but I believe this is the way forward for the next 10-15 years -- basically the Volt concept, but within the requirements and budgets of the mass market. This is what car makers should be going for in the near term. Longer term, fuel cells might make sense. But really, with an 80-mile battery range, this thing will use so little gasoline (with the lifestyles of most people) it is a solution that could be very good for the next 25 years. In other words, it will have a lot more impact to get millions of cars that use very little gas versus getting a few hundred thousand cars that don't use any gas at all.

Basically, this looks like the first really practical EV for the broad market.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/car-manufacturers/bmw/10208797/BMW-i3-revealed.html

[madokie]

1. I like it

We just purchased a new ford focus hatchback two weeks ago so one of these will be out of the question right now.

[kristopher]

2. Off to the greatest with this (and a few tech details not in the OP article)

- 170-hp, 184 lb-ft hybrid-synchronous electric motor with max. revs of 11,400 rpm.
- 80-100 mile real-world EV range.
- 22-kWh lithium-ion battery, which weighs 450 lbs.
- 650cc gasoline powered Range Extender optional; holds charge, doesn't power wheels.
- 0-30mph in 3.5 seconds, 0-60mph in approximately 7.0 seconds (preliminary).
- Top speed of 93 mph, electronically limited to preserve efficiency.
- BMW's signature, near-perfect 50-50 weight distribution.
- Ultra-tight turning radius (32.3 ft), which is ideal for city driving.
- Macpherson strut front and 5-link rear suspension set up.
- Single Pedal Driving Concept with Brake Energy Regeneration, which feeds power back into battery.
- 3 drive modes: Comfort, ECO PRO and ECO PRO+.
- 3 hour 220 V @32 amps charging time.
- Optional SAE DC Combo Fast Charging allows for 80% charge in 20mins; 100% in 30 mins.

http://www.electric-vehiclenews.com/2013/07/worldwide-debut-of-all-new-bmw-i3.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+blogspot%2FpEcq+%28Electric+Vehicle+News%29

[BlueStreak]

10. List $45,200 with the gas engine

http://business.time.com/2013/07/30/nailed-it-why-bmws-new-i3-may-be-the-most-popular-electric-car-yet/?iid=sl-main-mostpop2

That's a little high, but I think a lot of people will pay that for a BMW. That price probably narrows the viable market down to about 5% of the families. That is, this range numbers, vehicle size, and price might work for 5% of families. But that's a lot, compared to the number of EVs that have been sold so far.

[Warren Stupidity]

3. 80-100 is not viable.

It is marginally better than the leaf. E-cars need 300+ range and rapid re-charge before they can replace gas vehicles. Tesla understands this. They need to get their price down.

[Nihil]

4. Depends who the user/market is

> 80-100 is not viable.

If it is being marketed to Joe Yokel out in the middle of Bumfuck, Arizona then you
are perfectly right - that range is not viable.

If it is being marketed to Jeremy & Jessica Yuppie in the city then it is more than
"viable", it is near ideal.

[BlueStreak]

8. Exactly. If a person needs a pick-up truck to pull a horse trailer 400 miles a day

then this is not viable. But these numbers get into the sweet spot for probably 85% of families around the country. And other than the Volt, all the other EVs so far have been viable for at most 2% of the public.

Let's put it another way. Ignoring the comfort factor, and just focusing on getting from Point A to Point B, let's say you live in the suburbs of Philadelphia, and work in the city 4 days a week at a round trip of 50 miles. But one day a week, you have to go to Boston, DC, or Norfolk, and that may be a round trip of 600-700. Which cars are going to be best for you?

Leaf and Tesla are simply not viable. Who is going to want to stop halfway through that trip and search for a plug-in, then wait an hour to get juiced, and also have to do the same at the destination? It is theoretically possible to make that trip, but only 1% of the public would put up with that.

This BMW and the Volt will handle that no problem. The BMW has a shorter gas range. I'm guessing it has a ~2 gallon gas tank, so you would have to stop a few times to gas up, but that is a 3 minute stop.

I'd have to compare the Volt and BMW closely to see which would be preferable. The battery range is much higher on the BMW, so if it has enough room, that would be my choice. In my personal case, there are many days when I do 50-60 mile round trips. I don't know how the prices compare when you have the 650cc gas option on the BMW. Actually, the vehicle I will want is the next size up from this I3. I bet we'll see that in another 18 months.

[kristopher]

5. You couldn't possibly have read the article

Both the OP article and the one I linked in post 3 contain information that show you just typed a knee-jerk response.

Question 1 - how many miles do most drivers in the US drive each day?

Question 2 - why do you suppose they have a small gasoline engine onboard?

Question 3 - what happens to gasoline consumption and utility when you combine those two pieces of information?

[Warren Stupidity]

20. I read it and I am referring to the E-vehicle not the hybrid.

80-100 isn't good enough for many consumers. Plus a three hour charge time is a show stopper for many people too. Tesla knows this. Actually everyone knows it, even you, if you think about it. Yes it can replace some gas vehicles but not enough to create the critical mass that will enable the infrastructure that needs to go with e-vehicles for charging. And the charging time has to be competitive with gas vehicles.

I want my next car to be 100mpg-e minimum, but I am not going to buy a car that won't work for me.

[Finishline42]

6. How many millions of families have 2 or more cars?

I can understand if somebody lives in LA or NYC or any other top 15 or so cities - range fear would be a major concern.

But in the rest of the country 50 miles a day is a lot when you have multiple vehicles.

[kristopher]

7. There isn't any range anxiety with this car.

Read the articles.

[BlueStreak]

9. You still have range anxiety any time you have a battery-only vehicle.

Have you ever received a phone call while you were out, asking you to add another segment to your trip?

Have you every been stuck on the highway on a blistering hot day for 45 minutes while they clean up an accident ahead?

There are all sorts of unexpected things that can suck that battery capacity. Personally I will never buy a vehicle where I have to spend so much of my time worrying about whether I will make it to the next charge station. In a fantasy world where none of those unexpected things happen, batteries always deliver their claimed range, there is always an available charging station a few blocks away, and the charge time is only 5 minutes, the Tesla is perfect. In the real world we live in today, it is good for the 1% status seekers.

We are a family of 2 and have 3 vehicles (I have a motorcycle). But we don't trade vehicles because each of us has a lifestyle that has us keeping some of our equipment in our car all the time.

[kristopher]

11. Do you understand how this car (a series hybrid) works?

It can create no more range anxiety than any gasoline powered auto would.

[BlueStreak]

13. Yes. I was referring to the battery-only EVs (Tesla, Leaf et al)

[kristopher]

14. I didn't pick up on that, sorry.

A lot of people still aren't aware of the series hybrid and what it offers.

[wtmusic]

16. Do you have a battery-only vehicle?

I do, and although everyone's experience is different, I don't have any range anxiety whatsoever.

I did when I first got my Nissan Leaf. The "miles remaining" display is pretty useless - it depends completely on what kind of driving you're doing. But knowing that in advance becomes second nature, as does plugging in your car when you get home. That gives you an effective range of not 80 miles/day or 100/miles/day, but close to 200 miles every day - more than the vast majority of people need for local, non-vacation driving.

Panicked, hypothetical scenarios involving sudden snowstorms, traffic jams, mothers giving birth, etc only seem to appear in the imaginations of people who don't have an electric car. The rest of us deal with it, and I've never gotten stuck once.

[BlueStreak]

18. No. I have range anxiety just thinking about it :)

Anxieties aren't necessarily based on reality but they are real. I am trying to make my life as worry-free as possible, so I am simply not going to seriously consider a product that makes me worry just thinking about it.

I think BMW (and GM) have the right idea. You really don't need very much horsepower ON AVERAGE to maintain highway speed. 10 HP will get the job done ON AVERAGE. But you do need acceleration, hill climbing, passing power. That is where the battery does its job, so you only need a gas engine big enough to deliver that basic 10 HP plus some additional amount to charge the battery. Even the 650CC engine is way overkill, I would think, but I'm sure the BMW engineers looked very carefully at product cost, size, noise, durability and efficiency and decided that engine was their best option. They are surely looking at an expandable platform. That same drive system might show up 6 months later in a small delivery truck that gets 40 miles on the same battery. The 650CC engine should handle any vehicle up to a 1 ton pick-up.

[hunter]

19. The model with the little gas engine is 100% electric except for longer trips.

Filling up every 160-186 miles might be annoying, but some gas-only cars have been worse.

I've got to wonder how far people commute. Many years ago I started resenting every second I wasted driving a car. When my wife and I met we were both Los Angeles commuters, but even our worst commutes were less than 30 miles each way... which could sometimes take hours.

For decades now our weekly work and shopping has rarely exceeded thirty miles a week. Most of the mileage on our cars is from visiting friends and family, picking up and dropping off people at the airport, vacation and the like. We could easily keep the old mini-van running another hundred thousand miles for occasional long distance people hauling work, and use a smaller electric daily.

Ideally we wouldn't need a car, but most of the U.S.A. isn't put together that way.

[oldhippie]

21. When I lived in California .....

... my daily commute was 150 miles (75 miles each way, up and down the Salinas Valley). I did that for 21 years.

Many people would wonder why, but there were good reasons. They had to do with quality of life. I would do the same thing again.

I've got to wonder how far people commute.

[TreasonousBastard]

12. Alas, 45 grand doesn't make it practical for most of us...

and it is incredibly ugly.

[BlueStreak]

15. That's an "eye of the beholder" thing.

We have two Prii, and I'd say they are ugly, but 45 MPG is nice. I like the looks of the BMW. It could definitely get old.

It is like the new Honda Odyssey minivan. That doesn't sit right on my eyes, but it is an art form, and therefore preferable to a bland old Town & Country, I think.

And regarding the I3, BMW doesn't plan to sell to 95% of the public, so they can afford to be a little edgy with the design.

[wtmusic]

17. A commenter on one board called it "The Baby Gorilla"

and I thought he nailed it.

I think my Leaf is pretty damn ugly too, but I also like driving past the local Chevron station while giving them the finger.

Beauty = more than sheet metal deep.