Tesla sours on swappable batteries

[nationalize the fed]

June 10, 2015 autonews.com

PALO ALTO, Calif. -- When it unveiled the Model S, Tesla Motors Inc. crowed about its fast-swapping technology, demonstrating in 2013 that a depleted battery could be swapped for a fresh one in minutes. Later, it built a swap station in Harris Ranch, Calif., halfway between Los Angeles and San Francisco, to test the technology.

But there’s a problem, Tesla CEO Elon Musk says: Customers aren’t interested.

“People don’t care about pack swap,” Musk said Tuesday at the company’s annual shareholder meeting. Tesla’s proprietary Superchargers, which can top off the battery in the Model S with 200 miles of range in about 20 minutes, are “fast enough” for most customers, he said, and unlike battery swaps, they’re free.

“We thought people would prefer Supercharging, but we weren’t sure,” Musk said. “So that’s why we built the pack swap capability in. And based on what we’re seeing here, it’s unlikely to be something that’s worth expanding in the future unless something changes.”

With this public reversal by Musk, battery swapping, once a promising alternative to fast charging, now seems destined to become a quirky footnote in the history of Tesla, and perhaps the entire electric-car movement...MORE
http://www.autonews.com/article/20150610/BLOG06/150619976/tesla-sours-on-swappable-batteries

Who would swap their brand new Tesla 1300 pound lithium battery pack for a used one? And pay $80 to do it? And then have to return to the swap station on the way back to have the original battery re-installed? And does this cost another $80? Who knows, those few select Tesla customers who get "invited" to swap their batteries have to sign an NDA.

Gee this "reversal" wouldn't have anything to do with the fact that the tax credit requirements have changed? Of course not. Musk cares about everyone.

That's why he is glad to take tax money from the poor and middle class to subsidize the purchase of $100,000 luxury cars (that one day will need a new $20,000-$40,000 battery to make the car move)

Related: The Tesla battery swap is the hoax of the year

The fundamental reason this blog exists is to tell the world about the fraud Tesla is committing. This has resulted in tens of millions dollars’ worth of fraudulent carbon credits being received by the company, and if nothing is done the tally will get into the hundreds of millions.

This blog exists not to tell people about EV incentives, but about the illegal incentives a particular EV company is getting. I covered much of the same ground in my first post, but here I’ll give California’s own regulations as sources...snip
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2013/12/21/the-tesla-battery-swap-is-the-hoax-of-the-year/

[GreatGazoo]

1. It's not a hoax unless it was a key reason that customers bought the car,

and even then if they got one of the swappable ones then they have that capability.

Apparently customers wanted to charge THEIR $20K battery in 20 minutes instead.

What hoax?

[4now]

2. Looks like someone has a hurtful grudge against Elon Musk.

[Yo_Mama]

7. Tesla really does run off other people's money. They don't make a profit off the cars, or any profit

Each car is produced and sold at a large loss.

http://ir.teslamotors.com/secfiling.cfm?filingID=1564590-15-3789&CIK=1318605

Tesla gets money from selling cars, but the bulk of its automotive revenue (on which they are losing money still) probably comes from regulatory credits. For instance, other car companies pay Tesla money to get the regulatory credits so that they can continue to sell highly profitable vehicles and meet lease requirements.

They do not split out the figures and there has been a lot of speculation.

I would not buy Tesla stock because I have never seen such opaque financials except in Chinese companies. You can't tell how their business works, but they do still run at an operating loss.

From the regulatory filing linked above:

We recognize revenues from sales of Model S and the Tesla Roadster, including vehicle options and accessories, vehicle service and sales of regulatory credits, such as zero emission vehicle and greenhouse gas emission credits, as well as sales of electric vehicle powertrain components and systems, such as battery packs and drive units. We recognize revenue when: (i) persuasive evidence of an arrangement exists; (ii) delivery has occurred and there are no uncertainties regarding customer acceptance; (iii) fees are fixed or determinable; and (iv) collection is reasonably assured.

[cascadiance]

3. Maybe if they had two battery jacks in their car...

... one which is the chargeable one that one uses mostly right now and can be the sole battery one needs in the car to run it. This would be the "new" one you'd invested in that you wouldn't want to swap out at all, unless for some reason you needed to replace it. You could perhaps leave the other "jack" empty most of the time when just driving around town.

But then when taking a trip, you could put in a "used battery" you have in the second jack, and have your main battery being charged by it while you are driving, and then just swap it at a station when you need more juice when this second battery is out, and perhaps your main one is getting lower. It could serve to charge your main battery when not near a charging station as you are driving on the trip. In this case, you'd care less about how "good" that battery is, as long as it would have a charge that could in effect charge up your main battery then instead of having it plugged in. In most commuting driving (and charging it at home or at work where you usually charge it), you wouldn't even need anything attached to the second jack, and it wouldn't cost you anything or be any different than what most people just have in place now.

I think this might make it worth having these kind of batteries at highway gas stations, and maybe some other kinds of stations in other areas where to allow for those traveling in areas not on highways. It seems like without these kind of batteries available, or methods to use them in cars, traveling long distance in electric cars may be an issue for many.

I don't own a battery equipped car, so don't know how suitable this would be, but just an idea that came to my head.

[Yo_Mama]

5. There is not space in the car for two batteries.

http://www.plugincars.com/tesla-model-s-big-battery-small-cell-128790.html

About eight or nine years ago—I can't remember the exact time—a BMW spokesperson told me that it was impossible to build an electric car with a decent range because that would require a battery weighing more than 500 kg (1,102 pounds). But that's exactly what Tesla Motors did.

The battery of Model S Performance weighs 1,323 pounds. It's so heavy, so big and so expensive that it gets every other car manufacturer scared. But it's absolutely the defining factor behind the Model S's exceptional performance. If the car had less battery, it wouldn't be so powerful, and it couldn't charge as fast. A bigger battery means that more electrical current can be pumped in or out.

[cascadiance]

6. I'm no scientist, but could there be a "charging battery"...

... that isn't so big, but could be used like I noted as a means of charging the main battery on the fly that could be swapped out periodically so that those on long trips wouldn't only be able to stop unless they found some place with a charging station where they might get lunch at the same time. Seems like something someone should be able to design that maybe isn't as robust as a car's main battery, but something that could help with charging a vehicle that doesn't have to be stopped at a charging station to do the same thing.

[Yo_Mama]

8. It would still have to be a huge battery to store the necessary power to charge the main battery!!

Small battery = low net charge.

Tesla's rapid charge design for its batteries means that they are larger than slower-charging batteries, but auto battery packs are all very large.

[cascadiance]

9. I guess I'll have to wait until one of these days when I can afford something like that...

... rather than having to buy back a repaired totalled 10+ year car I recently dinged up when I couldn't afford to buy a new car. I'll worry about that technology then, if I ever get to that stage in today's economy that continues to screw the rest of us.

[Yo_Mama]

10. Well, yes, the range is quite good on the Tesla - we just can't afford one!!!

That is the real issue for most.

[Fred Sanders]

4. Sounds like someone is jealous. Sometimes - as in always - new technology has unknown real world application.

[kristopher]

11. Note the climate deniers' mecca, "Watts Up With That" is used as reference

http://www.desmogblog.com/anthony-watts

Because, you know, pushing the "hydrogen economy" is so, so Green.