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hatrack

(59,587 posts)
Wed Jul 8, 2015, 08:02 AM Jul 2015

Fascinating Esquire Article: What Some Of The World's Leading Climatologists Really Think

EDIT

For more than thirty years, climate scientists have been living a surreal existence. A vast and ever-growing body of research shows that warming is tracking the rise of greenhouse gases exactly as their models predicted. The physical evidence becomes more dramatic every year: forests retreating, animals moving north, glaciers melting, wildfire seasons getting longer, higher rates of droughts, floods, and storms—five times as many in the 2000s as in the 1970s. In the blunt words of the 2014 National Climate Assessment, conducted by three hundred of America's most distinguished experts at the request of the U. S. government, human-induced climate change is real—U. S. temperatures have gone up between 1.3 and 1.9 degrees, mostly since 1970—and the change is already affecting "agriculture, water, human health, energy, transportation, forests, and ecosystems." But that's not the worst of it. Arctic air temperatures are increasing at twice the rate of the rest of the world—a study by the U. S. Navy says that the Arctic could lose its summer sea ice by next year, eighty-four years ahead of the models—and evidence little more than a year old suggests the West Antarctic Ice Sheet is doomed, which will add between twenty and twenty-five feet to ocean levels. The one hundred million people in Bangladesh will need another place to live and coastal cities globally will be forced to relocate, a task complicated by economic crisis and famine—with continental interiors drying out, the chief scientist at the U. S. State Department in 2009 predicted a billion people will suffer famine within twenty or thirty years. And yet, despite some encouraging developments in renewable energy and some breakthroughs in international leadership, carbon emissions continue to rise at a steady rate, and for their pains the scientists themselves—the cruelest blow of all—have been the targets of an unrelenting and well-organized attack that includes death threats, summonses from a hostile Congress, attempts to get them fired, legal harassment, and intrusive discovery demands so severe they had to start their own legal-defense fund, all amplified by a relentless propaganda campaign nakedly financed by the fossil-fuel companies. Shortly before a pivotal climate summit in Copenhagen in 2009, thousands of their e-mail streams were hacked in a sophisticated espionage operation that has never been solved—although the official police investigation revealed nothing, an analysis by forensics experts traced its path through servers in Turkey and two of the world's largest oil producers, Saudi Arabia and Russia.

EDIT

Scientists are problem solvers by nature, trained to cherish detachment as a moral ideal. Jeffrey Kiehl was a senior scientist with the National Center for Atmospheric Research when he became so concerned about the way the brain resists climate science, he took a break and got a psychology degree. Ten years of research later, he's concluded that consumption and growth have become so central to our sense of personal identity and the fear of economic loss creates such numbing anxiety, we literally cannot imagine making the necessary changes. Worse, accepting the facts threatens us with a loss of faith in the fundamental order of the universe. Climate scientists are different only because they have a professional excuse for detachment, and usually it's not until they get older that they admit how much it's affecting them—which is also when they tend to get more outspoken, Kiehl says. "You reach a point where you feel—and that's the word, not think, feel—'I have to do something.' "

This accounts for the startled reaction when Camille Parmesan of the University of Texas—who was a member of the group that shared a Nobel prize with Al Gore for their climate work—announced that she'd become "professionally depressed" and was leaving the United States for England. A plainspoken Texan who grew up in Houston as the daughter of an oil geologist, Parmesan now says it was more about the politics than the science. "To be honest, I panicked fifteen years ago—that was when the first studies came out showing that Arctic tundras were shifting from being a net sink to being a net source of CO2. That along with the fact this butterfly I was studying shifted its entire range across half a continent—I said this is big, this is big. Everything since then has just confirmed it." But she's not optimistic. "Do I think it likely that the nations of the world will take sufficient action to stabilize climate in the next fifty years? No, I don't think it likely."

She was living in Texas after the climate summit failed in 2009, when media coverage of climate issues plunged by two thirds—the subject wasn't mentioned once in the 2012 presidential debates—and Governor Rick Perry cut the sections relating to sea-level rise in a report on Galveston Bay, kicking off a trend of state officials who ban all use of the term "climate change." "There are excellent climate scientists in Texas," Parmesan says firmly. "Every university in the state has people working on impacts. To have the governor's office ignore it is just very upsetting." The politics took its toll. Her butterfly study got her a spot on the UN climate panel, where she got "a quick and hard lesson on the politics" when policy makers killed the words "high confidence" in the crucial passage that said scientists had high confidence species were responding to climate change. Then the personal attacks started on right-wing Web sites and blogs. "They just flat-out lie. It's one reason I live in the UK now. It's not just been climate change, there's a growing, ever-stronger antiscience sentiment in the U. S. A. People get really angry and really nasty. It was a huge relief simply not to have to deal with it." She now advises her graduate students to look for jobs outside the U. S.

EDIT

http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/a36228/ballad-of-the-sad-climatologists-0815/

30 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Fascinating Esquire Article: What Some Of The World's Leading Climatologists Really Think (Original Post) hatrack Jul 2015 OP
She is spot-on-about the anti-science stance of the USA--horrible riversedge Jul 2015 #1
Sad. And discouraging. calimary Jul 2015 #6
The USA is not anti-science - the US right wing is. Nitram Jul 2015 #16
yes, you are right. riversedge Jul 2015 #19
It’s not anti-science, it’s anti-intellectualism OKIsItJustMe Jul 2015 #21
The U.S. has always had a streak of anti-intellectualism, but I think... Nitram Jul 2015 #22
I don’t think it was a genuine “respect for science” OKIsItJustMe Jul 2015 #24
Kudos to Esquire for publishing this. The US needs to get its head out of its ass, Nay Jul 2015 #2
As an academic ex-pat Fairgo Jul 2015 #3
Great read underpants Jul 2015 #4
This is sickening. PatrickforO Jul 2015 #5
kick for later. navarth Jul 2015 #7
Dahr Jamail | Mass Extinction: It's the End of the World as We Know It pocoloco Jul 2015 #8
Thanx for posting Botany Jul 2015 #9
"We are not scientists....so leave the science to the science denying scientists". Fred Sanders Jul 2015 #10
K&R. Overseas Jul 2015 #11
We need to elect leaders kenfrequed Jul 2015 #12
Don't Panic HoosierCowboy Jul 2015 #13
Captures a lot of what I am feeling n2doc Jul 2015 #14
A little long, but worth the time to read. CrispyQ Jul 2015 #15
This is what happens when corporations gain control of the elections and legislative process. Enthusiast Jul 2015 #18
Looking one quarter ahead vs seven generations. CrispyQ Jul 2015 #26
"The reality of climate change is happening faster than all the models predict." dixiegrrrrl Jul 2015 #20
That's a fair description of the Precautionary Principle NickB79 Jul 2015 #30
Sad. Very sad. pscot Jul 2015 #17
I sympathize so deeply with Box, Mann and Kingsnorth GliderGuider Jul 2015 #23
I thought that Schmidt of NASA was really making up stuff that Box did not actually say. mackdaddy Jul 2015 #28
Schmidt was projecting? That makes sense. GliderGuider Jul 2015 #29
And when are people going to get that climate change isn't gay marriage GliderGuider Jul 2015 #25
You can't make people stupid without religion. Religion legitimizes magic thinking, and valerief Jul 2015 #27

riversedge

(70,242 posts)
1. She is spot-on-about the anti-science stance of the USA--horrible
Wed Jul 8, 2015, 08:12 AM
Jul 2015

to think this is happening (anti-science) in the US. I do not know what it will take for Republicans-yes, it IS vile Republicans to begin to wake up and shut their biased mouths. Living in WI, I see the anti-science getting worse year by year.


.... Then the personal attacks started on right-wing Web sites and blogs. "They just flat-out lie. It's one reason I live in the UK now. It's not just been climate change, there's a growing, ever-stronger antiscience sentiment in the U. S. A. People get really angry and really nasty. It was a huge relief simply not to have to deal with it." She now advises her graduate students to look for jobs outside the U. S.......

calimary

(81,314 posts)
6. Sad. And discouraging.
Wed Jul 8, 2015, 10:19 AM
Jul 2015

WHY we give ANY time or attention to the idiot cranks out there - is just beyond me. It should be national policy to laugh at them and keep them away from "sharp objects" - like microphones and cameras.

Nitram

(22,819 posts)
16. The USA is not anti-science - the US right wing is.
Wed Jul 8, 2015, 11:05 AM
Jul 2015

And they yield more power than their numbers thanks to gerrymandering. Throw the bums out! Pass constitutional amendments limiting campaign spending and making districting apolitical and proportional to the population.

OKIsItJustMe

(19,938 posts)
21. It’s not anti-science, it’s anti-intellectualism
Wed Jul 8, 2015, 12:01 PM
Jul 2015
https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/tag/anti-intellectualism
“There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.”
― Isaac Asimov

Nitram

(22,819 posts)
22. The U.S. has always had a streak of anti-intellectualism, but I think...
Wed Jul 8, 2015, 12:04 PM
Jul 2015

Last edited Wed Jul 8, 2015, 04:15 PM - Edit history (1)

...this anti-science trend is relatively recent and much more dangerous. there was a lot of respect for science in the 50s and 60s at the same time there was wide-spread anti-intellectualism.

OKIsItJustMe

(19,938 posts)
24. I don’t think it was a genuine “respect for science”
Wed Jul 8, 2015, 12:24 PM
Jul 2015

“Scientists” gave “us” the atomic bomb. That made us powerful. So, we loved scientists. Unless they told us things we didn’t like. (Like don’t use the bomb against Japan.)

When Sputnik was orbiting overhead, we felt threatened. We decided that science was important, but, once “we” landed on moon, we decided “science” wasn’t all that important. So, we cancelled scientific missions we had planned, and had already built the rockets for.

The list goes on…

Nay

(12,051 posts)
2. Kudos to Esquire for publishing this. The US needs to get its head out of its ass,
Wed Jul 8, 2015, 08:33 AM
Jul 2015

and soon. The fact that climate change deniers aren't dismissed immediately as cranks is appalling.

Fairgo

(1,571 posts)
3. As an academic ex-pat
Wed Jul 8, 2015, 09:10 AM
Jul 2015

with a Wisconsin pedigree, I found much greener fields for a career overseas. Anti-intellectualism is as american as gun fetish.

Botany

(70,516 posts)
9. Thanx for posting
Wed Jul 8, 2015, 10:24 AM
Jul 2015

I glanced at the article and I'll read it later. Right now less then 3 miles from where
I sit at Ohio State's Byrd Institute of Polar Studies they have thousands of ice cores that
give millions of "data points" about green house gases and the earth's climate and yet
all the time I meet and talk to seemingly normal people who talk about volcanos, trans
fats, and other topics to prove that climate change isn't real.

Fred Sanders

(23,946 posts)
10. "We are not scientists....so leave the science to the science denying scientists".
Wed Jul 8, 2015, 10:29 AM
Jul 2015

THAT is exactly the official position of the Republican Party, but somehow the Reporters of America keep missing that!

And the Reporters all lusting to take down The Clinton legacy, sporting good fun - even if thier psychopathic mass quest fails - should not be roped off because......??

Who will report on the Reporters?

kenfrequed

(7,865 posts)
12. We need to elect leaders
Wed Jul 8, 2015, 10:31 AM
Jul 2015

People in all levels of government that will accept the science on this. The time for trying to make nice with conservatives and compromise with them continually has passed. Every step towards them we took with policy has been a horrendous failure.

Cap and Trade was, by design, supposed to appeal to markets and conservatives and it was a mistake. We should have gone with "Cap and Tax" or "Cap and Fine."

Enough is enough!

HoosierCowboy

(561 posts)
13. Don't Panic
Wed Jul 8, 2015, 10:45 AM
Jul 2015

An Old Joke written on a Bathroom stall in old WW2 war Production Plant;

Don't Worry:

You'll either live or die
If you live, don't worry

If you die, don't worry
Because you either go
To Heaven or Hell

If you go to heaven
Don't worry

If you go to Hell
Don't worry
You'll spend all your time shaking hands..


My Point is, Climate Change has already arrived. It will eventually destroy the existing social order if left unchanged, revolution would not be as necessary as a retrenchment of the entire human race. In the opposite of Neil's Young's Song, it's better to fade away than burnout....

CrispyQ

(36,478 posts)
15. A little long, but worth the time to read.
Wed Jul 8, 2015, 10:57 AM
Jul 2015
As Mann sees it, scientists like Schmidt who choose to focus on the middle of the curve aren't really being scientific. Worse are pseudo-sympathizers like Bjorn Lomborg who always focus on the gentlest possibilities. Because we're supposed to hope for the best and prepare for the worst, and a real scientific response would also give serious weight to the dark side of the curve.


The reality of climate change is happening faster than all the models predict. We are in uncharted territory & there is ZERO political will on a global scale to address the issue. Shame, shame on the USA, for not taking the lead in what is going to be a cataclysmic event for humanity.

Enthusiast

(50,983 posts)
18. This is what happens when corporations gain control of the elections and legislative process.
Wed Jul 8, 2015, 11:22 AM
Jul 2015

They now control policy which is geared toward short term profit. But you already know that.

dixiegrrrrl

(60,010 posts)
20. "The reality of climate change is happening faster than all the models predict."
Wed Jul 8, 2015, 11:58 AM
Jul 2015

And HAS been, for the last decade or more.
That is what really has stuck me. Every time we hear a report on some aspect of noticeable results of the change, there is always a sentence to the effect
it is happening sooner than predicted.
Which really makes me wonder about those models.

NickB79

(19,253 posts)
30. That's a fair description of the Precautionary Principle
Wed Jul 8, 2015, 04:04 PM
Jul 2015
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precautionary_principle

The precautionary principle or precautionary approach to risk management states that if an action or policy has a suspected risk of causing harm to the public or to the environment, in the absence of scientific consensus that the action or policy is not harmful, the burden of proof that it is not harmful falls on those taking an action.


Hope for the best, but plan for the worst.
 

GliderGuider

(21,088 posts)
23. I sympathize so deeply with Box, Mann and Kingsnorth
Wed Jul 8, 2015, 12:21 PM
Jul 2015

Having been through the despair and being forced to disengage for the sake of my own sanity, their words strike a chord with me.

Unlike Gavin Schmidt though, I wouldn't tell anyone who is speaking the hard truths not to do so. People have a right to the full spectrum of both fact and opinion.

mackdaddy

(1,527 posts)
28. I thought that Schmidt of NASA was really making up stuff that Box did not actually say.
Wed Jul 8, 2015, 01:47 PM
Jul 2015

Box originally just sent a one line tweet that "we are F'd".

Schmidt went on for some time on all the thing that Box supposedly said from this one contraction. My impression was that it was Schmidt actually thinking all of these extended things that are truly "Fucked" and attributing it to Box.


I personally am not quite on board with total Human Extinction, but I do think we will see the population of earth drop from over 7 billion to just a few hundred million by the end of this century. I guess that would qualify as we are 'F'd".

 

GliderGuider

(21,088 posts)
29. Schmidt was projecting? That makes sense.
Wed Jul 8, 2015, 01:55 PM
Jul 2015

I've always thought there were things he thought that he couldn't let himself think. Better to lay them off on someone like Box.

No, I'm not a believer in NTHE either. If the species rebounded after Toba we can survive - in small numbers - though almost anything.

As you say, "fucked" isn't the same as extinction. I truly believe we are fucked beyond any hope of reclaiming our long-lost virginity. Between the state of climate, the state of the biosphere and the state of the world's political and economic systems, I don't see how we can dodge all the bullets that have already been fired at us.

 

GliderGuider

(21,088 posts)
25. And when are people going to get that climate change isn't gay marriage
Wed Jul 8, 2015, 01:00 PM
Jul 2015

Or even the CFCs and the ozone layer. The economic stakes are virtually insurmountable at this point.

"All internal combustion engines, all coal and gas-fired power plants must be shut down this instant."

Now there's a political slogan that will get votes. Not even the people who will be the first to drown in rising seas would vote to stop driving and using their iPhones.

valerief

(53,235 posts)
27. You can't make people stupid without religion. Religion legitimizes magic thinking, and
Wed Jul 8, 2015, 01:17 PM
Jul 2015

the U.S. is chock full of magic thinkers.

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