Two-state prospects diminishing, says UN chief

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/news/americas/18186-two-state-prospects-diminishing-says-un-chief

The very possibility of reaching a two-state solution in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict continues to recede with potentially explosive consequences, UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon said Tuesday.

In a briefing to the Security Council on the situation in the Middle East, Ban urged the incoming Israeli government to reaffirm a commitment to the UN-proposed solution that envisages the creation of an independent Palestinian state within pre-1967 borders, alongside Israel.

The new Israeli government should "take credible steps to foster an environment conducive to a return to meaningful negotiations, including a freeze of settlement activity," he said.
---
On the last days of his election campaign, Netanyahu said that he would ditch the UN-proposed two-state model altogether if he were to be re-elected. He later backtracked on those comments.

If Israel cannot come to terms with the fact that it has created a human rights disaster the world will have to explain it to them through Boycott, Disinvestment and Sanctions.

If Israel refuses the two-state solution then not too far in the future one state is the prospect that will be on the table.


BDS.

[Little Tich]

1. If Israel can't remove 600 000 settlers back to Israel,

then there is no two-state solution. I think we should see if international and legal pressure can remove them. If not, then Israel should be sanctioned until the binational one-state solution occurs.

[azurnoir]

3. well that could be problematic

first lets say that 200,000 to 250,000 of those settlers live in East Jerusalem, so then we're at about 350,000 to 400,000 in the West Bank itself, relocating those people into Israel IMO is all but impossible firstly because there is a severe housing shortage in Israel as it stands now, what housing there is seems to be quite expensive-so much so that there have been demonstrations about it for years now and rather small. Add to that I have asked 2 of our Israeli posters one rather rightist, one rather leftist how they felt about the settlers returning to Israel they both agreed it was not something they wanted to see happen especially where the religious crazies are concerned, so where does that leave us-do you remember the evacuation of Gaza and the mess that created? It was only 8,000 to 9,000 people there so multiply that times the number in the West Bank and what you have is sadly a near intractable situation

[Little Tich]

4. Well, if 600 000 settlers can’t just pack up and leave, what solution is left then?

And even if every single settler just decided go back to Israel, I still can’t see a viable Palestine. What is the main industry of Hebron? What’s the main export of Gaza? What is the credit rating of a Palestinian state?

I don’t actually support the one state solution, but what are the alternatives, especially now when Great Cthulhu probably will continue to be the prime minister of Israel?

[Mosby]

7. why can't some of them become Palestinian citizens?

Is there room in Palestine for Jews?

[geek tragedy]

8. If they are willing to repudiate their Israeli citizenship and swear loyalty to the Palestinian

state, and have themselves, their children, and their property be subject to Palestinian law and Palestinian courts, pay taxes to the Palestinian government, and to forego any possible protection from the IDF, sure why not?

How many do you think would take that deal?

[Mosby]

9. I think many would like to have duel citizenship

But a lot of religious settlers would probably be fine with becoming Palestinians. The real problem is whether the Palestinians would accept Jewish settlers in their midst, I think we all know the answer to that.

I don't agree with making people swear loyalty to a country, that includes Israel.

[geek tragedy]

10. If they're Israeli citizens, that's an invitation for the IDF to intervene on their behalf.

Ask Ukraine how that works.

Would Jewish settlers want to live in a Palestinian state without the IDF to protect them? Would they be willing to pay what would almost certainly be very high taxes levied against high income households?

They'd have to take down the checkpoints, and the security walls, and give up their guns.

[shira]

15. Do u support a future Palestine run by Hamas, so long as they get their land? n/t

[geek tragedy]

16. I believe Palestinians, not the Likud party, should choose the leader of the Palestinians nt

[shira]

17. So if that's Hamas, you're good with that? n/t

[geek tragedy]

18. no, I'm not 'good' with that just like I'm not 'good' with the coalition of extremists

(Likud, Bayit Yehudi, Shas, Yisrael Beteinu) who will be governing Israel.

But, self-determination means people get to pick their own leaders, not have those leaders imposed by foreign colonialist powers.

This cuts to the heart of Israeli double-talk on a Palestinian state--they favor a Palestinian state so long as Israel gets to pick who runs that state.

Oh, and while controlling that state's borders, air space, ground water, immigration policy, and ability to enter into treaties.

But they really favor an independent Palestinian state!

[shira]

19. So you're for nationalism first. Civil rights come a distant 2nd.

If they pick Hamas now, then what about the next generation that may not like fascist rule? Voting in a totalitarian regime is not a real democracy.

I don't see how anyone here at DU could support that and still believe they're pro-Palestinian.

[geek tragedy]

20. self-determination IS a civil right. nt

[shira]

21. Nationalism w/o civil rights is fascism.

Unfortunately, Israel's most hostile critics prefer a 1-state Hamastan over a 2-state situation with one Jewish state next to a Palestinian one.

Nothing to be proud of there.

[geek tragedy]

22. You're mixing up your Likud talking points.

'Hamastan' is a criticism of the two-state solution.

How would you feel about Israel reverting back to a British protectorate?

[shira]

25. The real problem you have with Israel is that you don't believe....

....Jews are entitled to their own self-determination. You believe the Palestinians should have self-determination at the Jews' expense.

How would you feel about Israel reverting back to a British protectorate?

I've got news for you. Everything changed in 1948. The Jews will never again go back to a situation in which we let others determine our fate for us. Been there for 2000 years, done that. How'd that work out for Jews? You know the answer to that.

And as we see today with antisemitism back in full stride again, Jews still need Israel more than ever.

[geek tragedy]

26. No, both should get self-determination. Only Jews get that right currently.

Palestinians have no self-determination. They are prisoners of the Israelis.

Thus Israel walks in the shoes of Pharoah.

[shira]

30. So you're a Zionist & you support the Jewish state...

....since you believe both people should have self-determination.

[geek tragedy]

31. I believe in self-determination and the right to vote.

I do not think religious nationalism is a very good idea. It is inconsistent with democracy.

[shira]

33. Right, so 2 states for 2 people - correct? A Jewish Israel next to....

....a Palestine. Not sure Palestine will get past the first vote if history is any indication since Abbas is in year 11 of his 4 year term.

[geek tragedy]

34. the two-state solution would have been the way to go, yes.

too late for that now.

facts on the ground make it impossible to have a separate, viable, contiguous Palestinian state. Too many settlements, too many settlers, virtually no appetite in Israel for removing those settlements and those settlers.

The settlements were built with the explicit purpose of preventing a Palestinian state.

Israel's government for the next 4 years will be explicitly opposed to the two-state solution, and will continue settlement expansion.

[shira]

35. So you're not for self-determination. You're contradicting yourself...

If you're for 1-state with a Jewish minority, there's no way those Jews would have self-determination anymore. Therefore, you support Palestinian self-determination at the expense of Jewish self-determination.

It's not too late for 2-states. Any settlement building that's happened over the past 2 decades has been within existing settlement boundaries that the world recognizes will become Israel in any future deal. The Clinton Parameters of 2000 could still be offered.

[geek tragedy]

36. " settlement building that's happened ..the world recognizes will become Israel in any future deal"

Bull. shit.

[shira]

37. Yeah, the reality-based world. n/t

[geek tragedy]

38. Did you look at those maps?

Including all of those settlements as part of Israel would make a viable, contiguous Palestinian state physically impossible.

[aranthus]

27. Actually, self determination is a national right that is prior to civil rights.

You don't have civil rights without a country, and you don't have a country without self determination. That's why no one has the right to make Palestinian statehood contingent on what kind of government they are going to have. We may not like it if Palestinians elect Hamas, but they still have the right to do that. They still have the right to their own state.

[geek tragedy]

28. Very well said. Unfortunately, the Israelis disagree with you. nt

[aranthus]

29. No one has the right to dictate Palestinian government.

We may not like their choice, but they have a right to it. You can try to help them create a more democratic government, but you can't hold up Palestinian statehood until they create a government you like.

[shira]

32. True, but no one should support the foundation of a fascist gov't either

The Israel-Sucks brigade will enthusiastically endorse a future Hamastan, especially if it's established on the ashes of Israel.

[Ken Burch]

23. How many would want to be?

Most of the settlers are there to make an ideological statement-the statement being that they believe the lands of the West Bank should be part of the State of Israel.

This is why, in my view, the PA doesn't want them there-not out of inherent bigotry, but because they don't believe the settlers would ever accept the idea that Palestine, not Israel, would have sovereignty over the land.

Can you not see why this would give Palestinians some serious trust issues regarding the settlers?

[Little Tich]

24. Where should they live?

If they live in the settlements, they still live in Israel, and in Palestine there is a housing crisis. Israel hasn’t allowed new towns or villages to be built in Palestine since 1967. The exception is Rawabi, but it’s not enough to accommodate the total housing needs of all of Palestine, especially if Israelis wanting to become Palestinians will live there as well.

[JDPriestly]

2. Very sad. Very disappointing.

[oberliner]

5. Who wrote this?

Did they just plagiarize chunks of this from the UN website, uncredited?

[geek tragedy]

6. In the sense that the prospects for an independent Republic of Texas are receding. nt

[shira]

11. Nice. Palestnians keep saying no to 2-states & Israel is to blame. n/t

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

13. It must be nice living in denial like that, shira.

How do you do it every day?

[shira]

14. If I had my way, there'd be peace & 2 states for the past 15 years....

Arafat should've accepted the Clinton Initiatives like Israel did.

There'd be no more occupation, settlements, "apartheid", or "colonialism".

But u agree with Arafat's refusal don't you? You think he made the wise choice.

Doesn't speak well for your alleged opposition to "apartheid", "colonialism", occupation, and settlements - does it?

[guillaumeb]

12. A return to the pre 1967 borders sounds like the solution.

It satisfies International Law and eliminates the tearing down of houses and uprooting of trees that are happening right now in the West Bank.

Agreed with the poster that Israel created this situation with its land theft and wholesale violations of human rights of Palestinians.

And if Israel is too crowded for ALL of the settlers to return, perhaps the RoR Law, whatever the intent, was not the way to go when it was passed. It would be like me having 25 children and inviting all my relatives to stay with me, and then seizing part of my neighbor's house because my house was too small.