Israel/Palestine
Related: About this forumObama’s role model to journalists — Dorothy Thompson — turned against Zionism and was silenced
http://mondoweiss.net/2015/04/journalists-thompson-silenced[Thompson returned home a national hero, her story on the cover of newspapers and magazines throughout the country. Her fame increased as she became a syndicated national columnist and radio commentator for NBC. By 1936, she was writing a political column for the New York Herald Tribune and was considered the leading voice in the war against fascism. By 1939, she was on the cover of Time magazine. A movie about her life stared Katharine Hepburn and a play stared Lauren Bacall. She was named the second most popular and influential woman in America behind Eleanor Roosevelt. She spoke out about anti-Semitism and the plight of the Jews in Europe, and urged a relaxation of immigration restrictions so the US could be a safe haven for the Jews under threat in Europe.
In the summer of 1941, she went to London to report on the Blitz and met with the Queen and with Prime Minister Winston Churchill. She fought against isolationism and urged the president to declare war on Germany. In 1942, at a Zionist convention at the Biltmore hotel, she was the keynote speaker and gave a rousing pro-Zionist speech advocating unrestricted Jewish immigration to Palestine. By the end of the war, she was considered one of Zionism’s most effective spokesmen.
All that changed early in 1945 after a fact-finding trip to Palestine. Up until 1945, her anti-Nazi and pro-Zionist credentials were impeccable. What she saw in Palestine totally changed her outlook. She began to write that the proposed establishment of the State of Israel was a formula for disaster, “a recipe for perpetual war” in the Middle East. During her 1945 trip, she discovered that Zionism was not “the liberal crusade that the Zionist leaders envisaged”, and that Israel was to be “not a small state of Jews who chose to live in Israel, but a Zionist state destined to become the leading power in the Middle East.”
Her anti-Zionist statements and reporting began losing her the support of American Zionists. Her boss at the New York Post dropped her “On the Record” column at the beginning of 1947. He was a strong supporter of Zionism and very close to the Irgunists and Menachem Begin, the leader of this Jewish terrorist group. Thompson had told him, after her trip to Palestine, that “…the situation there is not the way it has been presented by many of the Zionists. It is one of the most complicated and difficult problems on the earth today.”
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oberliner
(58,724 posts)All the way back to the the 1940s even! Can't anything be done?
shira
(30,109 posts)
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)'Course it's always hard getting an addict to admit they have a problem, before they do something to crash and burn.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)oberliner
(58,724 posts)He just quoted a remark of hers.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)
King_David
(14,851 posts)
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Because the only thing happening in that post is President Obama using a quote of hers, as I mentioned.
It's a great quote and has nothing to do with anything in the Mondoweiss piece.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)oberliner
(58,724 posts)Tell me what part I need to re-read and what I should be looking out for.
It's mondoweiss...
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Literally all Obama did was cite one quote of this person's and now they are characterizing her as Obama's role model for journalists.
King_David
(14,851 posts)It's a vanity blog similar to the National Enquirer , but mondoweiss is single issue and not as credible.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)
shira
(30,109 posts)R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)Deal with it.
Response to R. Daneel Olivaw (Reply #27)
Name removed Message auto-removed
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)is less dependent on me and more on whether you stay on the right side of MIRT.
I post the truth, not fluff.
shira
(30,109 posts)Last edited Wed Apr 29, 2015, 12:17 PM - Edit history (2)
I mean, anyone could go to rightwing, fascist hate sites to see the daily "Israel-Sucks" tripe. Liberals and Progressives at DU shouldn't be emulating that, right?
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)delegitimizing the Israeli people, hemming the Israelis into a tiny strip of land, killing Israelis wholesale while proclaiming that "no Israeli state will be created" then you might be on to something.
As usual, though, you just fall flat in your face. Do you still want to go on after you have been caught using gate language and getting your posts hidden as a result?
shira
(30,109 posts)Israel isn't illegally colonizing Palestinian lands. Jews have a right to live there. Everything west of the Jordan is still the Jewish homeland. That's international law, making it legal. Until that's overturned, it'll remain legal.
They definitely are delegitimizing the Jewish Israeli people, 24-7-365.
Hamas, Islamic Jihad, and the PA wouldn't even allow for that. No tiny strip of land for the Jews. The Jews don't merit a homeland of their own. Even the BDS movement won't allow for a tiny strip of homeland for the Jews.
Isn't that what Hamas does constantly? Killing or attempting to massacre Israelis wholesale while proclaiming Israel has no right to exist? They praise, honor, and reward successful killers of Jews - encouraging more of the same.
Gate language?
You've repeated something like this several times to me already. Are you trying to get my posts hidden?
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)The first line is a lie cut from whole cloth, and the second is an attempt to make Israel=Jew.
The further read on the lie is the only way for Jews to live there is by force of arms: under Israeli apartheid... IDF Likrud-style.
Thanks, shira. I just love it when you fall on your face with your unjustifiable excuses.
shira
(30,109 posts)When have the Palestinians ever had sovereignty over their own land? Never. So how can those be Palestinian lands? San Remo is International Law, and it certainly doesn't make what Israel does illegal.
You're confusing what's legal/illegal with what Israel should've done instead when acquiring the '67 territories.
Well, Israel is the Jewish homeland. Right? Again, San Remo.
Not sure you know the difference between lies and truth.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)You definitely seem to be the back bench explainer today for what Israel can apparently theft. And you do it seemingly without guilt or apparent conscience.
Curious...
shira
(30,109 posts)....implies that you can't justify your baseless assertions. What's worse is you keep repeating the same silly ridiculous narrative as if it hadn't already been refuted previously.
And THAT's truth to power.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)
shira
(30,109 posts)Should be good for some laughs.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)Generally, dear, you tend to be responsible for that all yourself.
There's a life lesson for you if you're interested.
shira
(30,109 posts)R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)shira
(30,109 posts)But maybe I did miss the obvious, so please enlighten me as to how your answer was either yes or no.
If you can.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)shira
(30,109 posts)....to get my posts hidden. Get it? Do I need to explain the logic there?
You're still dodging the question.
All I need is a simple yes or no.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)As usual, though, you just fall flat in your face. Do you still want to go on after you have been caught using (hate sp) language and getting your posts hidden as a result?
Now you've done a good job getting your own posts hidden, with dubious sources, dubious language, etc. by jury decisions. The mere fact that they HAVE been hidden numerous times should tell you the intent of the Jury and whether the hides were deserved or not.
Now let's get back on track, and stop with your diversions.
shira
(30,109 posts)There's a life lesson for you if you're interested
It's clear you believe I deserved them.
And that one proves you think I deserved them. Do you really wish to tell me you DON'T think that?
My advice:
Stop digging yourself into a deeper hole.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)Last edited Wed Apr 29, 2015, 10:28 PM - Edit history (1)
My second quote comes after your accusation and is solely based on what the jury believes you have deserved.
shira
(30,109 posts)R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)And again, as to your constant post hides due to unsavory content...IMHO, it is the Jury system that seems to give you what they believe you deserve.
shira
(30,109 posts)R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)― James A. Michener
Shall I find a candle to light your way to oblivion?
Last edited Wed Apr 29, 2015, 08:19 PM - Edit history (1)
Israel isn't illegally colonizing Palestinian lands. Jews have a right to live there. Everything west of the Jordan is still the Jewish homeland. That's international law, making it legal. Until that's overturned, it'll remain legal.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1134&pid=102241
edited for link to wrong comment
shira
(30,109 posts)azurnoir
(45,850 posts)shira
(30,109 posts)The 1947 UN partition plan, which sought to create Arab and Jewish states, could have been such an agreement, but it was rejected by the Arabs. Being a General Assembly resolution, the plan had no legal force of its own.
In contrast, the 1993 Oslo Accords do possess legal force but, but as these contain no prohibition on the existence and growth of these Jewish communities, Jewish rights remain unimpaired. Whether one supports or opposes Jewish residence in the West Bank, all should be able to agree on this.
http://www.algemeiner.com/2013/03/04/the-myth-of-jewish-settlements-in-international-law/
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)canceled that out totally
shira
(30,109 posts)In November 2014, the US State Dept. Spokeswoman said settlements were unfortunate.
http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2014/11/israeli-settlements-unfortunat-2014114135025395399.html
Were you reallly unaware of this?
=================
Now please provide me with a list of elected Democrats (past or present) who have declared settlements illegal.
I'll wait.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)shira
(30,109 posts)You must think they're all stupid and just don't know better.
Or worse, they've all compromised their principles and will never challenge the vaunted "Zionist Lobby".
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)...and will never challenge the vaunted "Zionist Lobby."
shira
(30,109 posts)R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)Democrats, our politicians, are humans. They are not gods. They are OUR servants. That is the way it is supposed to be.
That's Democracy, shira. Hard for you to follow, right?
Democracy evolves over time or falls under the weight of its own hubris and decay.
Democracy is a constantly evolving organism, slow at times, but without that evolution what have you? Don't tell me I'm wrong.
So to complain that what I post is contrary to every elected Democrat is not really the question. In the same way that the drive against South African Apartheid took time, so too will the drive against Israeli apartheid take time with our elected Democrats.
Speaking the truth may be hard, but harder still is to sit by and ignore the truth while others suffer.
It's called evolution, shira, and perhaps it is a concept that some don't really understand or endorse.
For those that don't understand it perhaps they will find enlightenment. For those that don't endorse change then perhaps they would be more comfortable in a Democracy (aka farce) where no questions are ever asked, no protests are ever held and where all elected Democrats march in lockstep...as one would expect republicans to do.
shira
(30,109 posts)You're voting for people who are anti-BDS, and in favor of what you call Israeli "apartheid, colonialism, land theft"....
Please, by all means keep voting for them!
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)“We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.”
― Benjamin Franklin
shira
(30,109 posts)....justify or defend your views.
So you go all smilies and insults and pretend that's just as good a reasoned response as any.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)not some vague reference to a 95 year old statement made by colonial occupiers who are long gone
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)She is definitely accusing me of writing things which I have not. It should stop soon before she gets another time out.
shira
(30,109 posts)R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)shira
(30,109 posts)It's never been overturned or superceded.
Same as UNSCR 242. That's nearly 50 years old.
UNGAR 194 on refugees is nearly 70 years old. And it's not even binding.
And?
Israeli
(4,151 posts)....never heard of her before .
A modern day example would be Amira Hass.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)starting back in the 1930's now she's unknown because she criticized Israel's treatment of Palestinians starting in the late 1940's, wonder if this would have happened if she were a man ?
shira
(30,109 posts)"Israeli Ties and U.S. Citizenship: America Demands A Single Loyalty."
Some of Thompson's nice philosemitic quotes:
“She saw the Jews of Israel not only as power-seeking imperialists, but as international agitators who conspired to create a perfidious fifth column in America and Europe.”
http://www.newrepublic.com/book/review/dangerous-ambition-dorothy-thompson-rebecca-west-susan-hertog
What do you think? Just antizionist, but not antisemitic?
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)Especially the part:
“She saw the Jews of Israel not only as power-seeking imperialists, but as international agitators who conspired to create a perfidious fifth column in America and Europe.”
The key phrase here is "Jews of Israel" to distinguish from "every Jew anywhere in the world". Her phrase IS anti-Zionist. The second phrase, my example, would be anti-Semitic.
shira
(30,109 posts)She railed about dual loyalty. Classic antisemitic meme going back centuries.
And she attacked with a broadbrush ALL Jews of Israel. Not some, not even most, but all. I dare you to accept something like that when someone else tries broadbrushing all Palestinians in Gaza or the W.Bank.
==============
You have no clue what genuine antisemitism is, since you appear incapable of acknowledging any of this.
Well, either that or you do know but feel it's in the best interests of the AntiZionist movement to protect its own, right or wrong, racist or antiracist.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)oberliner
(58,724 posts)He cited a quote of hers.
Charles Lindbergh has some great and inspiring quotes too.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)shira
(30,109 posts)azurnoir
(45,850 posts)shira
(30,109 posts)R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)These journalists and so many others view their work as more than just a profession, but as a public good, an indispensable pillar of our society, so I want to give a toast to them. I raise a glass to them and all of you, with the words of the American foreign correspondent Dorothy Thompson.
It is not the fact of liberty but the way in which liberty is exercised that ultimately determines whether liberty itself survives.
By quoting one of their own, separated by decades, PBO is in fact endorsing her memory, her words, her spirit; not just to the WHCA but to everybody that can read and thoroughly digest it. Understandably it will stick in the craw of some who can't get past Thompson's criticism of Israel, but criticism ≠ Antisemitism.
shira
(30,109 posts)If Thompson hadn't done so, Wolf Blitzer (Jewish Zionist) could have said that. So could Rush Limbaugh. Or JFK.
In no way would anyone link that to BDS style loathing of Israel.
Try again?
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)The fact is that...
Wolf Blitzer didn't say it, regardless of your adoration for the Jewish Zionist CNN hack.
Rush Limbaugh didn't say it either, but what a strange thing you wishing he had.
JFK said a great many things, but again he did not utter these words.
These words alone belong to Dorothy Thompson, and President Barack Obama endorsed these words when he quoted her to the WHCA.
Not only are you comically out of your depth, but you are also hopelessly lost with your feeble "try again" nonsense.
shira
(30,109 posts)....all that Henry Ford was, including his Nazi ties.
That's your argument?
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)Now that I got that off my chest — you know, investigative journalism, explanatory journalism, journalism that exposes corruption and justice gives voice to the different and the marginalized, the voiceless — that’s power. It’s a privilege. It’s as important to America’s trajectory, to our values, our ideals, than anything that we could do in elected office.
We remember journalists we lost over the past year. Journalists like Steven Sotloff and James Foley, murdered for nothing more than trying to shine a light into some of the world’s darkest corners.
We remember the journalists unjustly imprisoned around the world, including our own Jason Rezaian. For nine months, Jason has been imprisoned in Tehran for nothing more than writing about the hopes and the fears of the Iranian people, carrying their stories to the readers of “The Washington Post,” in an effort to bridge our common humanity. As was already mentioned, Jason’s brother Ali is here tonight and I have told him personally, we will not rest until we bring him home to his family safe and sound.
[Applause]
These journalists and so many others view their work as more than just a profession, but as a public good, an indispensable pillar of our society, so I want to give a toast to them. I raise a glass to them and all of you, with the words of the American foreign correspondent Dorothy Thompson.
It is not the fact of liberty but the way in which liberty is exercised that ultimately determines whether liberty itself survives.
Thank you for your devotion to exercising our liberty and to telling our American story. God bless you. God bless the United States of America.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/reliable-source/wp/2015/04/25/full-transcript-of-president-obamas-white-house-correspondents-association-dinner-toast/
Obama chose his words carefully, as he almost always does..indispensable pillar of our society and then the
Dorothy Thompson quote.
Posted just in case people attempt to shit on your thread and minimize what Obama highlighted.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Unsurprisingly Mondoweiss wants to pretend it has something to do with Zionism.
King_David
(14,851 posts)The quote Obama uses has absolutely nothing to do with Zionism whatsoever.
The speech Obama was giving had nothing to do with Jews , Israel or Zionist.
It's quite a stretch indeed ...
hack89
(39,171 posts)"The Truth About Communism"
http://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=mdp.39015051180423;view=1up;seq=21
Aren't those views worth silencing?
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)hack89
(39,171 posts)she was a complex person - more to the point, perhaps she was the right person at the right time to take on Nazism in the 30's but her views were too far out of the mainstream post war.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)She was a keynote speaker at the Biltmore Conference, and by war's end was regarded as one of the most effective spokespersons for Zionism. She switched her views round radically after a trip to Palestine in 1945, and ran into difficulties,including accusations of anti-Semitism, which she strongly rebuffed, after being warned that hostility toward Israel was, in the American press world, “almost a definition of professional suicide.”[8][9] She eventually concluded that Zionism was a recipe for perpetual war.[10]
hack89
(39,171 posts)hers was not a particularly insightful notion.
There was never a peaceful solution that would have left everyone living in peaceful harmony. The Zionist knew that a strong Jewish state was necessary because it was the only chance for Jews to survive in the region surrounded by hostile Arab countries. They knew that once the number of Jews in the region reached some critical point, there would be a concerted effort to exterminate any nascent Jewish state - which is exactly what happened in 1948.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)and continues to delegitimize and destroy anything of that people: colonization, land theft, ghettoization...apartheid.
So a big win for zionism. 
hack89
(39,171 posts)then one will always be disappointed.
The real tragedy is what has happened in the 67 years since. Many missed opportunities on both sides.
The one thing to always remember was that the Palestinian people were never the center of the issue until very recently. Up until the Camp David Accords a Palestinian state was never close to the center of the conflict - it was Arab countries trying to exterminate Israel with an overlay of Cold War proxy hostilities. Lets not forget that both Egypt and Jordan were more than happy to rule parts of "Palestine" for long period, making no efforts to establish a Palestinian state.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)I'n actually looking for social justice now and not looking for excuses from the past applied to apartheid now.
hack89
(39,171 posts)anything after that requires some hard negotiations. Hamas is going to have to convince Israel (and Egypt) that they can coexist in peace. The issue of full RoR will have to be defused in some manner.
shira
(30,109 posts)...that's demonstrably wrong, as there was no such thing as Palestinian nationalism until after 1967. By that time, Israel had been around for nearly 20 years.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)
*spelling
shira
(30,109 posts)100 years ago, when people mentioned Palestinians they were talking about Jews.
Before the 1960's, it was the same.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)A genetic study has suggested that a majority of the Muslims of Palestine, inclusive of Arab citizens of Israel, could be descendants of Christians, Jews and other earlier inhabitants of the southern Levant whose core may reach back to prehistoric times. A study of high-resolution haplotypes demonstrated that a *substantial portion of Y chromosomes of Israeli Jews (70%) and of Palestinian Muslim Arabs (82%) belonged to the same chromosome pool.[31] Since the time of the Muslim conquests in the 7th century, religious conversions[citation needed] have resulted in Palestinians being predominantly Sunni Muslim by religious affiliation, though there is a significant Palestinian Christian minority of various Christian denominations, as well as Druze and a small Samaritan community.[citation needed] Though Palestinian Jews made up part of the population of Palestine prior to the creation of the State of Israel, few identify as "Palestinian" today. Acculturation, independent from conversion to Islam, resulted in Palestinians being linguistically and culturally Arab.[16] The vernacular of Palestinians, irrespective of religion, is the Palestinian dialect of Arabic. Many Arab citizens of Israel, including Palestinians, are bilingual and fluent in Hebrew.
*Palestinians and Jews come from the same gene pool, not "Jews" are the Palestinians as you so wrongly allege.
shira
(30,109 posts)That must've flown way over your head.
And it's an absolute fact. UNGA resolution 194 makes no mention of them. Neither does UNSCR242.
Try again?
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)Your words.
shira
(30,109 posts)European Jews were commonly considered an "Oriental" people in many of their host countries, usually as reference to their ancestral origins in the Middle East. A prominent example of this is Immanuel Kant, an (18th-century Prussian philosopher) who referred to European Jews as "Palestinians living among us."[4]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_Jews
Now please tell me why the Un Partition Plan, the UNGA resolution on refugees (194), and the 1967 UNSCR 242 do not mention Palestinians at all.
Did they just forget?
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)Prior to dismemberment of the Ottoman Empire, the population of the area comprising modern Israel, the West Bank, and Gaza Strip was not exclusively Muslim. Under the Empire's rule in the mid-16th century, there were no more than 10,000 Jews in Palestine,[1] making up around 5% of the population. By comparison, Jews currently comprise about 0.2% of the world's population. By the mid-19th century, Turkish sources recorded that 80% of the 600,000-strong population was identified as Muslim, 10% as Christian Arab and 5-7% as Jewish.[2]
You should stop with the fabrications now, and at least read what you are posting.
You truly are horrid at this. Amateurish.
shira
(30,109 posts)....existed prior to the 1960's.
Try again?
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)Your wiki link shows that Jews made up 5% of the population if Palestine. They were not a majority race as you were erroneously reporting. The Muslim and Christian populations were the majority.
Shira trips and falls on her face again.
shira
(30,109 posts)Really? Where'd I imply that?
And? If Jews weren't slaughtered and expelled from Israel over the past 2000 years, they'd have been the majority. Right?
How do Jews lose all their rights to their land, given they'd been expelled from Israel or slaughtered there over the ages? Would you at least agree Palestine was still the Jewish homeland within 100 years of their expulsion from Israel? How about 200? What is the statute of limitations on this? 500 years? How do you determine that?
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)the majority. Right?"
But they weren't. So it goes, so it goes.
Another group was the majority.
“Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.”
― Aldous Huxley, Complete Essays 2, 1926-29
shira
(30,109 posts)They lose.
Wow.
Really? Where'd I imply that?
You made that up, falsely accusing me of something I didn't "report".
So why can't you admit you were wrong? Why not apologize?
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)100 years ago it appears people were misinformed as to the population of the area of Palestine.
shira
(30,109 posts)100 years ago it appears people were misinformed as to the population of the area of Palestine.
All I meant, as I have repeatedly told you, is that Palestinian nationalism didn't exist until the 1960's. Before then, like 100 years ago, they were certainly there - and were the majority - but they didn't see themselves as Palestinians.
No one did. Their nationalist movement hadn't yet begun.
As evidence there are 2 UN resolutions (UNGAR 194) and (UNSCR 242) that make no mention whatsoever of Palestinians.
And then are Palestinian leaders who admit the obvious...
A separate Palestinian entity needs to fight for the national interest in the then remaining occupied territories. The Jordanian government cannot speak for Palestinians in Israel, Lebanon or Syria. Jordan is a state with specific borders. It cannot lay claim on - for instance - Haifa or Jaffa, while I AM entitled to Haifa, Jaffa, Jerusalem and Beersheba. Jordan can only speak for Jordanians and the Palestinians in Jordan. The Palestinian state would be entitled to represent all Palestinians in the Arab world en elsewhere. Once we have accomplished all of our rights in all of Palestine, we shouldn't postpone the unification of Jordan and Palestine for one second.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zuheir_Mohsen
Care to respond intelligently to this?
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)Birth of the nationalist feeling
Under the Ottomans, Palestine's Arab population mostly saw themselves as Ottoman subjects. Kimmerling and Migdal consider the revolt in 1834 of the Arabs in Palestine as the first formative event of the Palestinian people. In the 1830s, Palestine was occupied by the Egyptian vassal of the Ottomans, Muhammad Ali and his son Ibrahim Pasha. The revolt was precipitated by popular resistance against heavy demands for conscripts. Peasants were well aware that conscription was nothing less than a death sentence. Starting in May 1834, the rebels took many cities, among them Jerusalem, Hebron and Nablus. In response, Ibrahim Pasha sent in his army, finally defeating the last rebels on 4 August in Hebron.[2] Nevertheless, the Arabs in Palestine remained part of a Pan-Islamist or Pan-Arab national movement.[3]
In 1882 the population numbered approximately 320,000 people, 25,000 of whom were Jewish.[4] Many of these were Arab Jews and in the narrative works of Arabs in Palestine in the late Ottoman period - as evidenced in the autobiographies and diaries of Khalil Sakakini and Wasif Jawhariyyeh - "native" Jews were often referred to as abnaa al-balad (sons of the country), 'compatriots', or Yahud awlad Arab ("Jews, sons of Arabs"
.[5]
At the beginning of the 20th century, a "local and specific Palestinian patriotism" emerged. The Palestinian identity grew progressively. In 1911, a newspaper named Filastin was published in Jaffa and the first Palestinian nationalist organisations appeared at the end of the World War I[6] Two political factions emerged. al-Muntada al-Adabi, dominated by the Nashashibi family, militated for the promotion of the Arab language and culture, for the defense of Islamic values and for an independent Syria and Palestine. In Damascus, al-Nadi al-Arabi, dominated by the Husayni family, defended the same values.[7]
When the First Palestinian Congress of February 1919 issued its anti-Zionist manifesto rejecting Zionist immigration, it extended a welcome to those Jews "among us who have been Arabicized, who have been living in our province since before the war; they are as we are, and their loyalties are our own.".[5]
According to Benny Morris, Palestinian Arab nationalism as a distinct movement appeared between April and July 1920,[7] after the Nebi Musa riots, the San Remo conference and the failure of Faisal to establish the Kingdom of Greater Syria.[8][9]
They were, in fact, a people Shira, but there will always be the coldly calculating and ignorant bigots that will deny them their existence with bigoted and false history.
shira
(30,109 posts)They could've had their own state for over 75 years now.
What was their excuse for rejecting each proposal?
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)does not give justification to colonial apartheid or poor hasbarist excuses for such actions.
shira
(30,109 posts)...from 1937 - 2014 (and yes, they rejected the Kerry proposal) is that they obviously prefer living under "apartheid", being occupied, living along with "colonialists" in settlements......to having their own state.
There's a disconnect there in your thinking.
Can you figure it out?
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)And as usual, you have tripped over your own bigoted statements and fallen on your face.
Disgraceful, IMHO.
shira
(30,109 posts)...about Jews.
She wrote about Jewish dual loyalty, a centuries old bigoted trope.
And here are several of Thompson's nice philosemitic quotes:
Nice huh? Worthy of praise?
Sounds like Mondoweiss.
http://www.newrepublic.com/book/review/dangerous-ambition-dorothy-thompson-rebecca-west-susan-hertog
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts) hack89
(39,171 posts)her reporting on the rise of Hitler and the Nazi's was heroic and made her the media star she deserved to be. That doesn't mean she was his "role model" or that he agrees with her views on Palestine. It is very clear that he doesn't.
shira
(30,109 posts)You know what Ford was all about, right? Did business with Nazi Germany, also hated Jews...
Thing is, I don't see a problem with him quoting Thompson or Ford. Both were great contributors to society and both had some important things to say. In neither case did the POTUS even hint towards agreeing with Thompson or Ford WRT their views on Zionism.
Do you think Thompson's thoughts on Jews were vile? You get uptight here with the mere mention of "Israeli Arabs", claiming that's racism. Well how about obvious bigotry & hatred against Jews?
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)“…there is another tendency equally dangerous as it affects non-Jews, and that is to equate anti-Zionism with anti-Semitism. This really amounts to making anti-Semites, by appointment, of everybody who either does not believe in Zionism or criticizes any phase of Zionist and Israeli policy.”
shira
(30,109 posts)It's idiotic for the dumb asses at Mondoweiss who think Obama obviously agrees with Thompson's hatred and bigotry. They're morons for thinking that based on quoting something from Thompson completely unrelated to Jews and Israel, Obama agrees with her on everything else.
They may as well be arguing Obama agrees with Ford's support of Nazis & his hatred of Jews because he quoted Ford talking about something entirely unrelated to that.
Hell, you might like something I wrote here - and you might even quote me or imitate that. It doesn't mean you're agreeing with my Zionist views.
Got it?
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)you feel superior somehow then go imagine away all you want.
shira
(30,109 posts)Obviously, since Obama quoted Henry Ford that means he agrees with Ford's ties to Nazis and his insane hatred of Jews.
Yes?
That's what your argument is.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)Obama was quoting a journalist to other journalists. He's not a dumb guy so I must imagine that he knows Thomoson's history.
He knew what he was doing.
So do you believe that PBO hates Jews by quoting both Thompson and Ford?
...seeing how you are screaming that they are both raging anti-Semites...
shira
(30,109 posts)And yet, you will not find anything PBO has ever done or said that demonstrates his views on Israel are similar to Thompson's.
Gee, I wonder why....
Yeah, he did. He knew what he was doing quoting Ford too. Same thing.
...seeing how you are screaming that they are both raging anti-Semites...
No, I don't believe that at all. Those are great quotes, by both Thompson and Ford.
The logic is that you must believe PBO was in line with Ford's pro-Nazi sentiment. See, you're not being logically consistent, no matter how many "dears", "darlings", smilies, and insults you throw at me.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)The logic is that he must have been aware of her past, since again it is doubtful that he wouldn't miss such a detail. Perhaps those kind of details are lost in sophomoric black-white, yes-no universes.
He endorsed her to the WHCA with the afore mentioned quote.
Only poor misguided individuals, without much intellectual future, see things as only black or white.
But please do let me know when Wolf Blutzer or Rush Limbaugh start waxing poetic.
shira
(30,109 posts)R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts) shira
(30,109 posts)R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)quote somebody, that in his words...
These journalists and so many others view their work as more than just a profession, but as a public good, an indispensable pillar of our society...
without careful consideration of that person and what they represent.
I can understand how these nuanced expressions of historical acceptance are easily lost on those less motivated by truth and more attuned to moral decay and political bankruptcy.
shira
(30,109 posts)You wouldn't have a problem with that, right?
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Do you think Obama deliberately chose this particular quote because of this person's stance in relation to Israel?
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)Last edited Wed Apr 29, 2015, 10:51 PM - Edit history (1)
Deliberate? I believe that PBO is *smart enough to understand what Dorothy Thompson was *accused of and stood against.
“…there is another tendency equally dangerous as it affects non-Jews, and that is to equate anti-Zionism with anti-Semitism. This really amounts to making anti-Semites, by appointment, of everybody who either does not believe in Zionism or criticizes any phase of Zionist and Israeli policy.”
So fucking true, ober. True then, true now.
shira
(30,109 posts)Seems you can never acknowledge you're wrong. Ever. And you make it worse by digging yourself deeper.
All I'm looking for is consistency from you. That's why I mentioned Bush II.
You should have one standard when it comes to bigotry. All of us should have that.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)It's kind of like when some in I/P were trying to defend the Bible-loving, LGBTQ-hating Tennessee Legislature for passing an anti-BDS bill. One has to wonder whay any Democrat would endorse rabid republicans for anything, but I guess the mask slips off sometimes, right?
shira
(30,109 posts)R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts) shira
(30,109 posts)If Bush II quoted Thompson in the same way, do we logically assume he endorsed all her views, especially her anti-Zionist ones?
Come on, think that one out.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)There's nothing remotely trustworthy about Lil Boots, but did he ever quote Thompson?
It's strange how you continue to uphold Bush II and the Tennessee legislature, but do what you will.
shira
(30,109 posts)R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts) R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)thanks for the kick.
leveymg
(36,418 posts)Neither are really outside the established frame of the debate about the nature of Israel that's been going on since the beginning.