Israel/Palestine
Related: About this forumYou’re the reason BDS is winning!
**For the brainwashed, the man makes a plea
June 16, 2015, 11:09 am
So you think BDS is the big threat against Israel?
You just can’t understand why it is the world is so obsessed by a few houses Israel builds while so many other countries do so many other things?
You are trying to counter BDS but all that’s happening is it’s getting stronger and stronger and you know why…anti-Semitism. But you’re wrong. About everything.
Did you ever think during your endless meetings and conferences on anti-Semitism and Boycott Divestment and Sanctions (BDS) that the reason BDS keeps getting stronger no matter how hard you work is actually because of the work you’re doing?
it ever occur to you that the reason every country around the world, without exception, thinks settlements are a negative mark on a beautiful country is…because they are?
http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/youre-the-reason-bds-is-winning/
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Mosby
(16,350 posts)And, very typically, he frames Israel as the only responsible party and the Palestinians as helpless victims.
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)that word. The fact of the matter is that Israeli citizens by and large do not support to have
the West Bank vacated..not even close. They're enablers of the occupation as well as the
majority of their supporters. Israel has the political and military power, how likely will they
succeed in attaining a viable state with those odds? Next to zero. So, yes, they are on many
levels helpless victims despite the constant propaganda suggesting otherwise.
shira
(30,109 posts)Think about that.
There can only be peace once a future Palestine rids itself entirely of Jews? Seriously?
Who would believe such schlock?
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)standard for you.
shira
(30,109 posts).....of all Palestinians.
That's just as insane as arguing the W.Bank must be Jew free. But that's what BDS calls for.
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)
King_David
(14,851 posts)Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)to shira. No surprise.
shira
(30,109 posts)Even though the Arab League and the P.A. have agreed to it.
Your position is more hardline than theirs & it wouldn't lead to peace (since Israel would never agree to pull back to exact '67 lines & toss out every last settler).
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)too..thus the warning.
shira
(30,109 posts)....a Palestinian state?
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Something tells me you wouldn't continue saying he knows what he is talking about if you did.
King_David
(14,851 posts)Fair or not.
Geneva Accord is a good example.
If you so insulting to anyone who doesn't agree with you why bother on a discussion forum?
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)in that group.
King_David
(14,851 posts)It may not be fair but in the end certain things are going to happen , land swaps for sure and East Jerusalem will be prime among them.
That will happen ... Fair , just, unfair or unjust ... It's just what will be.
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)King_David
(14,851 posts)It's what it's going to be... And one day a Prime Minister of Israel and a Prime Minister of Palestine will sign such an agreement with a smiling American President sitting between them.
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)King_David
(14,851 posts)People...
Reminds me of Mondoweiss' Alex Kane who advised Hamas via Twitter not to accept a cease fire with Israel in Gaza when Israel offered it way before there were any significant casualties.
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)shira
(30,109 posts)It's what Abbas has said he wants, repeatedly.
Doesn't get more racist than that.
Ergo BDS = Jew hate.
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)chance of a viable state. You are good with that, I get it.
shira
(30,109 posts)...of historical Judea.
Why must Jews not be allowed to live anywhere within their historic homeland?
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)so he can read your responses.
shira
(30,109 posts)Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)with the decades long occupation due to their enablers...they have all the power. If they
keep the 3 major settlement blocs which are cut deep within the West Bank, which were
strategically chosen for the arable land and water resources, and they keep all of Jerusalem
and not allow EJ for the Palestinians, then there will be NOTHING but a bantustan.
I completely get that you are fine with that.
If you are so worried about BDS seeking one state, then complain to the president of
Israel..a one stater, If you fear BDS, then tell Israel to get the fuck out of the WB
for starters. There is always money for war, they need to put that money in relocating all
the hundreds of thousands of violators..it may take years, but they can do it. Get that
in writing and ratified at the UNSC.
Supporting anything less is criminal.
shira
(30,109 posts)Any movement that demands a Jew-Free territory is out-and-out racist.
Just as much as any that would demand a Palestinian Free Israel.
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)had rights to the WB nor EJ.
BDS is not monolithic by design, shira. But if you feel they are a threat, re-read my earlier
post and tell Israel to give the Palestinians what is rightfully theirs...and there will be
no amount of effort by any BDS group/individual who will then be able to garner support for
boycotting Israel.
shira
(30,109 posts)You keep deflecting because you know BDS's racist position on Jewish settlement is indefensible.
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)15 jurists on the world court have defined the whole of the WB including EJ is OPT.
Disgusting propaganda is what you are cheering for, a bantustan is not a viable state.
shira
(30,109 posts)
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)who is not of the left...that you place yourself even further to the right than he is, is
well..people can decide for themselves how to interpret that.
The irony is rich, when a guy like this speaks rationally about the threat of BDS and
accepts where the problem is, Israel's own citizens and their supporters..you're to
his right.
You crack me up.
shira
(30,109 posts)...and advocate for it?
And you didn't answer. Will the W.Bank be a viable state for Palestine with Jews living in it?
Goldberg is left-wing.
You know, "right-wing" does not mean anyone you disagree with.
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)It is their business what they do, with their land. I think the question you need to ask
yourself is under what conditions would people who have lived under occupation and
seen their loved ones jailed and killed for the main reason they wanted a state of their
own.
The WB does not belong to Israel, nor does EJ.
shira
(30,109 posts)You're the one crying about Bantustans as if you know what a future Palestine requires in order to be viable.
All of a sudden you have no opinion of your own, choosing to go with whatever the Palestinians decide (even if it's 100% racist).
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)You would need to be ignorant of what is necessary to ensure a viable state to agree with you and I know
for a fact they will not be able to have that with Israel keep those blocs. Israel keeps the arable land
and water resources BY DESIGN. They did not make those land choices by coincidence.
My opinion is that they have a right to decide, you don't like my answer, too bad.
shira
(30,109 posts)Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)have any obligation to do as you suggest and if they don't accept it as YOU define it, they're
racist?
They have been the victims of an unjust occupation for decades, I do find your posts offensive
to the extreme. They have no military nor political power, have lived under the thumb of Israel
and you have the nerve to call them these heinous things.
If by any chance in hell Israel gets out of the WB, they decide not you.
shira
(30,109 posts)Call it whatever you wish - not allowing settlers to live there - but the end result (as well as desired result) is no Jews allowed on their historic homeland.
to the extreme. They have no military nor political power, have lived under the thumb of Israel
and you have the nerve to call them these heinous things.
If being victims entitles a people to be as racist and fascist as they want, then it should be just as "understandable" if Jews decided to have a Palestinian free state due to being victims of unrelenting terror & threats of ethnic cleansing & genocide since before 1948.
Correct?
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)shira
(30,109 posts)....even one Democratic representative in power who isn't rightwing.
They all oppose BDS so they're all rightwing in your view.
Comical.
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)shira
(30,109 posts)....for rightwingers.
Is that correct?
What's wrong shira, you don't want to call AIPAC?
shira
(30,109 posts)That makes them rightwingers in your view, but you vote for them regardless.
Correct?
No deflections this time, please.
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)Do you think they spend time and money b/c they have nothing better to do?
Do you think there is some huge block of Palestinian voters in the US calling on their
reps?
Do you follow any politics in the US that is not about Israel? I doubt that you are even
aware of what is going on with TPP and fast track. Are you suggesting that each
Democrat including the president has agreement on policy from all his fellow Democrats?
As I said, you crack me up.
shira
(30,109 posts)Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)Tell me shira, how successful have they been? Don't you think they'll tell you?
shira
(30,109 posts)...called him out on it.
"I don't know," Hagel replied. "I didn't have a specific person in mind."
"So you agree that it was a dumb thing to say?"
"Yes," Hagel admitted. "I've already said that."
Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/chuck-hagel-lindsey-graham-jewish-lobby-2013-1#ixzz3dHCucIGE
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)No, I told you to call them and get clarification on the US Congress.
Tell me shira, how successful have they been? Don't you think they'll tell you? ( end )
Why don't you call them directly and report back. How successful have they been?
They don't need a lobby at all?
shira
(30,109 posts)Only to deny any such connection.
I'll tell you what: You call your senator or congress critter & ask them why they don't grow a pair and stand up to the dreaded "Lobby".
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)clarification on the US Congress.
That you deny their efforts and do not want to ask them what has been their success
in advocating for Israel is telling enough....more than enough.
Never heard of a lobby that worked so hard to only to be told they should not bother,
they don't need a lobby according to you. Let AIPAC know of your revelation.
You're amusing that way.
shira
(30,109 posts)You were right all along. The gig is up.
The enemies have been scheming for a long time, and they have consolidated their schemes, in order to achieve what they have achieved. They took advantage of key elements in unfolding events, and accumulated a huge and influential material wealth which they put to the service of implementing their dream. This wealth (permitted them to) take over control of the world media such as news agencies, the press, publication houses, broadcasting and the like. (They also used this) wealth to stir revolutions in various parts of the globe in order to fulfill their interests and pick the fruits. They stood behind the French and the Communist Revolutions and behind most of the revolutions we hear about here and there. They also used the money to establish clandestine organizations which are spreading around the world, in order to destroy societies and carry out Zionist interests. Such organizations are: the Freemasons, Rotary Clubs, Lions Clubs, B’nai B’rith and the like. All of them are destructive spying organizations. They also used the money to take over control of the Imperialist states and made them colonize many countries in order to exploit the wealth of those countries and spread their corruption therein. As regards local and world wars, it has come to pass and no one objects, that they stood behind World War I, so as to wipe out the Islamic Caliphate. They collected material gains and took control of many sources of wealth. They obtained the Balfour Declaration and established the League of Nations in order to rule the world by means of that organization. They also stood behind World War II, where they collected immense benefits from trading with war materials and prepared for the establishment of their state. They inspired the establishment of the United Nations and the Security Council to replace the League of Nations, in order to rule the world by their intermediary. There was no war that broke out anywhere without their fingerprints on it: “
Maan News will run with this big scoop tomorrow, for sure!
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)shira
(30,109 posts).....in reference to Article 22 of their charter.
Isn't that what you wanted me to confirm with AIPAC?
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)You don't want to, evidently. I wonder why not..seems like a safe way to know what their
success has been..go to the source. I would think they would tell you.
According to you, they're not necessary at all, interesting take you have on it.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)oberliner
(58,724 posts)Is such a combination possible?
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)Israel's illegal, brutal colonization of Palestinian territory, at the point of a gun, is the only tangible that matters.
Any Jewish Palestinian as you call them are actually Israelis...Jews; living in illegal colonies under the protection of the IDF on stolen land.
It's kind of late in the game to ask for sympathy while the rape of a people continues.
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)shira
(30,109 posts)Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)shira
(30,109 posts)Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)you're coming from..the OP certainly did, and I doubt he is alone.
shira
(30,109 posts)Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)at this point. I do appreciate you kicking the OP over and over again..thanks.
shira
(30,109 posts)
Israeli
(4,159 posts)
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)and much to mmy surprise it did, but sadly as it has fallen very deaf or uncaring ears
shira
(30,109 posts)BDS is pure antisemitism.
It's hardly about settlements. That's not what anti-Zionism is about & this article is naive (at best).
There's a reason BDS demonizes & slanders Israel up, down, and sideways 24-7-365 (the country is racist, apartheid, born in sin, etc.). The reason is to end the the Jewish state that they see as wholly illegitimate. A racist, nazi, colonialist, apartheid & imperialist state founded on ethnic cleansing simply has no right to exist in peace. End of story. Full stop. Period. That's the BDS message & it's to lay the groundwork that will legitimize ending Israel's existence by going to war against the bad Zionists (Jews).
BDS does not believe in a 2 state solution that "legitimizes" the Zionist project (the Jewish state). No one in their right mind would ever claim that BDS supports a Jewish state (the racist illegitimate Zionist project). They want it gone & destroyed, with Jews living as a minority population under Hamas/Fatah/Islamic Jihad rule. That is, if they're not massacred wholesale first.
Obama just recently said those who are against the existence of a Jewish state are bigots (given the need for a Jewish state to protect Jews worldwide). BDS is without any question against the existence of a Jewish state. Anyone claiming otherwise is naive or lying.
Ergo, BDS = Jew hate.
Jews are not responsible for Jew hatred.
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)response.
shira
(30,109 posts)....about my response.
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)King_David
(14,851 posts)
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)or anti-illegal settlements, or anti-war crime committers?
When I criticize the ISRAELI GOVERNMENT, and it is capitalized to emphasize the point, I am not criticizing Jews in the generic sense. I am criticizing a government that is practicing apartheid, systematically stealing land in contravention of International Law, and doing its best to eliminate any Palestinian presence in Palestine.
When you claim that the object of the BDS movement is to eliminate the Jewish state you are putting your own spin on a movement and equating any criticism of the actions of the Israeli government with de facto anti-Semitism.
And no, Jews are not responsible for Jew hatred, but Israeli citizens are responsible for the government that they supported with their votes.
shira
(30,109 posts)Anyone who truly opposes Apartheid being practiced against Palestinians can look to Lebanon in order to find genuine State Apartheid practiced against Palestinians born there.
What is happening in Lebanon is FAR closer to the definition of Apartheid than anything Israel is doing.
Those who accuse Israel of Apartheid always deny Lebanese Apartheid, and they don't give a damn that it's happening. What this shows me is that they really aren't anti-Apartheid at all. They're just Israel haters.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)Palestinian refugees, a descriptive word that you forgot in your response, by the way, live in Lebanon because they were driven out of Palestine by a campaign of Jewish, later Israeli terrorism.
I have never stated that Palestinians are treated very well by the surrounding countries that took them in, but I also know that the Palestinian diaspora would not have happened save for the terror that was inflicted on the Palestinians prior to and subsequent to the establishment of the Israeli State.
shira
(30,109 posts)There are 3rd, 4th, and 5th generation Palestinians living in Lebanon without rights.
They're not refugees by any definition. Those born there have the right to be citizens of their country, like anyone else born in any other country on earth.
Either you're anti-Apartheid or not, so which is it?
If you believe Palestinians in Lebanon should be denied rights as citizens then you're actually pro-Apartheid.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)When you said:
"There are 3rd, 4th, and 5th generation Palestinians living in Lebanon without rights.
They're not refugees by any definition. Those born there have the right to be citizens of their country, like anyone else born in any other country on earth. "
you forgot to post a link to this interesting bit of information. Is there some sort of law that governs this? I am not aware that people born in any country on earth earn the right of automatic citizenship in that country and automatic disenfranchisement of citizenship in the country of origin of their parents.
shira
(30,109 posts)As to citizenship, look up Article 7 on the Convention of the Right of the Child.
Now do you support or oppose Lebanese Apartheid vs. Palestinians? This should be a no-brainer to anyone claiming to be anti-Apartheid, so why the reluctance to answer?
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)I see there's no need for the mask any longer, shira. Criticism = slander.
Why not just get it out of your system and state that criticism is a blood libel or something as ridiculous.
Israel practices brutal apartheid. There's is no lie in that statement.
I also see that you're also back to the "look every where else first" method of mind control.
So sorry that it's the usual flop along with all your other gimmicks.
Anybody that truly opposes Israeli apartheid will see Israel for the brutal, land sucking, Palestinian killing regime that it is, while the ones that want to play with smoke and mirrors will belch forth everything they can to hide the systematic rape of a people.
shira
(30,109 posts)....the real thing....real genuine Apartheid in Lebanon against all Palestinians born there?
Explain that one please.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)Israel / Palestine forum I try really hard to focus on Israel / Palestine while not making up excuses elsewhere.
Perhaps you might want to try it some time.
I'm glad I could clear that up for you.
shira
(30,109 posts)....in Lebanon?
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)I'm happy to clear that up for you.
BDS.
shira
(30,109 posts)Seems you're trying really hard to avoid the reality there for Palestinians.
Odd behavior for someone claiming to be anti-Apartheid & for Palestinian rights...
============
Jimmy Carter says Israel is a wonderful democracy. So the "real thing" isn't happening in Israel.
But it is happening in Lebanon.
Do you care?
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)
oberliner
(58,724 posts)I guess you don't need a mask either.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)
And seeing how you were calling a report of a video, showing the beating of a Palestinian by the IDF, as propaganda I would suggest that this is your pot meet kettle moment.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)is that the case here?
shira
(30,109 posts)Is he substituting Jews for Israel too?
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)among other things you've claimed about that interview
shira (25,308 posts)
34. Obama was obviously targeting BDS'ers with this comment....
Obama: You know, I think a good baseline is: Do you think that Israel has a right to exist as a homeland for the Jewish people, and are you aware of the particular circumstances of Jewish history that might prompt that need and desire? And if your answer is no, if your notion is somehow that that history doesn’t matter, then that’s a problem, in my mind. If, on the other hand, you acknowledge the justness of the Jewish homeland, you acknowledge the active presence of anti-Semitism—that it’s not just something in the past, but it is current—if you acknowledge that there are people and nations that, if convenient, would do the Jewish people harm because of a warped ideology. If you acknowledge those things, then you should be able to align yourself with Israel where its security is at stake, you should be able to align yourself with Israel when it comes to making sure that it is not held to a double standard in international fora, you should align yourself with Israel when it comes to making sure that it is not isolated.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1134&pid=104599
shira
(30,109 posts)Obama: You know, I think a good baseline is: Do you think that Israel has a right to exist as a homeland for the Jewish people, and are you aware of the particular circumstances of Jewish history that might prompt that need and desire? And if your answer is no, if your notion is somehow that that history doesn’t matter, then that’s a problem, in my mind.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)shira
(30,109 posts)Play games all you want by denying it, but it's there.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)leftynyc
(26,060 posts)The delusional thinking here is that the US is just seconds away from signing onto that odious BDS movement when, if anything, support for Israel (not bibi, but Israel) has never been stronger. We have the miscreants in hamas to blame for that. The unity Palestsinian government has resigned:
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/06/palestinian-unity-government-resign-150617060429981.html
because even they can't deal with that terrorist organization. Let the Europeans crow about supporting Palestinians and their cause - it'll be sound and fury signifying nothing. I'm very much looking forward to my vacation in Israel in October.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)and recommend this OP..my many thanks.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Something tells me you might sour on him rather quickly if you do.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)While the Israeli Defense Force were storming into Gaza the streets of Europe were overrun with demonstrators. There were virtual riots outside of the Israeli embassy in London, tens of thousands of people marched there in support of Palestinians as they did in Paris, Madrid and elsewhere. With every march came cries that the IDF were perpetrating a massacre in Gaza. The pictures of dead Palestinian children filled Facebook feeds.
There is simply a sad, deafening silence.
It’s not as if people don’t know what’s happening in the largest Palestinian refugee camp in Syria, Yarmouk. The story took pride of place on Sky News, it has been published by every major newspaper around the world. Yet there is no action. The heat, the friction, the activism of the Summer is nowhere to be found.
In the United Kingdom there is no shortage of organizations dedicated to the Palestinian cause. The Palestine Solidarity Campaign, was the main organizer of the demonstrations and of a boycott campaign against Israel and yet the cause of Palestinian suffering in Syria is noticeable only for its absence from their website. There are no events planned, there are no calls for aid, there are no plans to lobby Members of Parliament to take action.
There is silence.
There was no massacre of Palestinians at the hands of the IDF last Summer. But in Syria there is. Right now as you read this. But you would be forgiven for being unaware of it. For this time there aren’t tens of thousands demonstrating on the streets. There are no demonstrations at all. There are no rallies. There are no screams of massacre. There are no demands on governments to take action.
And I want to know how this is possible. How can it happen that when Israel defends herself thousands take to the streets, the activists with their megaphones go marching, the whole machinery of campaigning and letter writing and the demands for action from politicians swing into action but when a real massacre of Palestinians happening there is silence from the very organization which exists to campaign on behalf of Palestinians.
This is a bizarre state of affairs indeed. But then perhaps they are only following the example set by Mahmoud Abbas, the Palestine Authority President. His words concerning Palestinians in Syria from 2013 are proving to be truly prophetic today;
It’s better they die in Syria than give up their right of return”
Perhaps the silence regarding Palestinians in Syria and elsewhere in the Middle East comes from a belief that it is only worth demonstrating when a Palestinian is killed by an Israeli. Even if that means throwing around words like massacre when there isn’t one and ignoring a real one while it happens.
We’re constantly told that the Israel Palestine conflict is what radicalises young Muslims in the West. So what happens when those radicalised Muslims from the West start beheading Palestinians while wearing the uniform of the Islamic State?
Apparently nothing at all.
http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/when-muslims-murder-palestinians/
shira
(30,109 posts)....the mass murder of Palestinians in Syria?
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)THe quote when traced back turns out to be what someone said someone said Abbas supposedly said when speaking to Egyptian reports, nothing first no actually proof just a convient cover story for Israel demanding Palestinian refugees from Syria sign away their futre freedom of movement in order to be sheltered in the West Bank
But actually, the journalism of the TOI isn’t the story. The story is this: Humane Israel, the same Israel that boasts about how it sends field hospitals to quake disasters before everybody else, now sets conditions (and right on their own border, not thousands of miles away!) for refugees in physical danger of their lives.
The first thing that popped to my mind was how it sounded like a “deal with the devil.” “Sure, we’ll let you in, save your lives – but first, sign here on the dotted line…”
The comparison to that ‘deal with the devil,” who eventually gets the victim’s “soul,” could not be more appropriate considering that the right of return is one of the most cherished, valued principles a Palestinian refugee holds dear to their hearts. Even Abbas, who although said to Channel 2 that he “has no right to live in Safed,” could never agree to imposing such a ridiculous condition on other Palestinians.
If Israel wants to show any kind of humanity, it should let those people through without holding a virtual gun to their heads. God knows they’ve suffered enough already.
http://972mag.com/a-humane-israel-sets-conditions-for-palestinians-fleeing-syria/63592/
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Maybe better to stick to 972mag and Mondoweiss and avoid Times of Israel bloggers if you want to stay on message.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)because I was curious as to whether the title was click bait or what, your chosen piece from last April was a predictable piece at best
shira
(30,109 posts)Are you denying this?
So obviously he believes they really are better off dead than signing off on a right-of-return that doesn't exist.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)their lives in order to avoid negotiations
shira
(30,109 posts)....is that Abbas made the right decision to let Palestinians remain in Syria.
Correct?
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)shira
(30,109 posts)Wow...
Good to know.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)shira
(30,109 posts)Israel did nothing wrong. There is no such thing as a right-of-return for descendants of refugees who should be citizens in their host countries (like everyone else there).
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)they were, don't remember many takers
shira
(30,109 posts)Abbas wouldn't allow them to choose for themselves.
I thought you were all for Palestinians choosing for themselves whether they want RoR.
Change your mind?
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)the entire stunt was a PR move by Israel there was never any intention of allowing a single refugee into the West Bank
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)they fell right into Israel's trap then. Just another situation where the failures of Palestinians are foisted upon Israel because of supporters like you. You will defend anything. I find it pathetic and counter productive but whatever.
King_David
(14,851 posts)LOL
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Same author.
King_David
(14,851 posts)
4now
(1,596 posts)then they must be anti-semitic.
shira
(30,109 posts)
Little Tich
(6,171 posts)It's the settlements that's the problem, and whatever some people claim, BDS is only about the settlements. This is a battle Israel can't win. The settlements are deeply immoral, and as long as they exist, there is a reason for BDS.
Israeli
(4,159 posts)Little Tich
(6,171 posts)Israeli
(4,159 posts)....addresing .....referring to ?
Not to all settlers Little Tich.....many of whom are there because of economics and not politics .
He was referring to the Greater Israel messianic madmen who's very foundation has always been one state .
You want to learn .....start with studying Gush Emunim.....they were the foundation of today's religious Right wing proponents of one State .
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)officials true intention, they are what they are. So yea, BDS is picking up speed.
shira
(30,109 posts)I'll help you save some time.
You won't find such a person as they don't exist.
They're all advocates for an end (destruction) of the Jewish state, and we all know damned well what that means for Jews not only in Israel but worldwide.
Wake up.
Little Tich
(6,171 posts)shira
(30,109 posts)....shill who spews Hasbara. He is an extremely harsh critic of Israel; a Leftwing insider who has been involved in the movement for decades.
Israeli
(4,159 posts)He is not Left wing BTW .....but he nails it never the less ........
Did it ever occur to you for a second that the Palestinians you read about in the papers perpetrating terror attacks aren’t representative by any means of the whole?
Do you really wonder why it is that Palestinians hate Israelis when they spend their entire lives living under our occupation, subject to our military law? How would you feel if you lived in perpetual fear of that knock on the door? Do you really think Palestinians are going to love Israel while living under our regime? Is that your standard for whether the occupation should stop? Are you mad?
Again and again so-called Israel advocates make the mistake of thinking they should be defending settlements for the good of the country when for the good of the country they need to be asking why it is the government insists on building them.
Last week Jerusalem Mayor Nir Barakat begged Washington DC to recognise Jerusalem as the capital of Israel. But they won’t. Nobody will. As long as all any country sees is Israeli belligerence they won’t grant any recognition of Jerusalem as Israel’s capital. Surely you know this is true.
This little piece of dirt that Israelis are now tied to because every rock has significance from thousands of years ago will ensure the end of the Jewish national project.
This little piece of dirt the Jordanians fled from is, for some reason, considered vital for Israel’s security needs. This piece of dirt that the IDF took in a day has hills. 2,000 years ago that might have been important, of course now with helicopters and an awesome air force the definition of “high ground” is rather different.
But we’re not being led by the Godfathers of Israel any more. We’re led by pygmies. Products of Zionism gone mad. People who look at the West Bank but don’t see Palestinians in it, they see obstacles. Increasingly when they look at the state of Israel they don’t see loyal citizens in it, they see traitors. That is why Breaking the Silence, a non governmental organisation with all of 60 members would seem to be such a threat that it requires a change to the law.
That is why a movement whose biggest successes are convincing a couple of musicians to cancel performances in Israel and a few companies to leave the country now takes centre stage as enemy number one.
Every time an Israeli diplomat talks about settlements and defends Israel’s right to build them their membership swells, every time another Jewish leader calls BDS anti-Semitism they enjoy phone calls from newspapers asking them for op-eds countering the claims.
The truth is simple and one you will continue to ignore, to the detriment of the country you claim to love so much.
People join BDS because they don’t like seeing the racism the occupation breeds, they join BDS because they hate the stink of lies coming from a government who argues on the one hand the Palestinians pose a huge threat and on the other that the only way to counter them is to move women and children into their land and build schools and infrastructure next to their population centres.
So if you support settlement at least tell the truth. Say you support it because your Zionism dictates that anywhere a Jew once lived a Jew must live now. Don’t pretend building houses is in some way necessary for Israel’s future and don’t pretend that the greatest threat to Israel is BDS or Breaking the Silence. Not only does that make you nothing more than the object of ridicule it makes the very enemy you’re attempting to fight go from strength to strength.
The real enemy to Israel isn’t the BDS movement. It’s you.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)How do you know?
Israeli
(4,159 posts)Or are you and KD going to deny that I am Israeli yet again ???
Good luck with that BTW .
oberliner
(58,724 posts)I have never denied that you were Israeli. I have no idea why you would claim that I did.
I am just asking how you know this guy isn't left wing. He says he is left wing on his personal blog and on his twitter account.
Israeli
(4,159 posts)...a few times .
Define " left wing " oberliner.
You tried soooooo hard to prove that he wasnt .....now you are trying to convince me that he is .
Just take his message and digest it ....does it matter if he is Left or not ????
oberliner
(58,724 posts)You must be confusing me with another poster. I have never done that. If you have evidence to the contrary, please share it.
Define left wing? How about a Meretz supporter/voter? Is that a reasonable baseline definition?
When did I try to prove he wasn't left wing? Again, I think you may be mixing me up with some other poster.
I definitely take and digest his message. He raises good points.
Israeli
(4,159 posts)...I might be 65 but I am not senile ...yet .
I could waste my time searching through countless posts for " evidence to the contrary " and share it ....as you suggest .
But to be brutally honest ......I have better things to do.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)I would appreciate an apology from you for doing so.
A simple apology will take a lot less time than searching through posts for something that does not exist.
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)makes his case more compelling.
Thank you for your response...you're always welcomed here.
King_David
(14,851 posts) Jefferson23
(30,099 posts) oberliner
(58,724 posts)He says that he is.
Here is a quote from another of his Times of Israel blog posts:
I look forward to to an Israeli leadership willing to roll up its sleeves and grapple with the issues that have seen poverty rise, racism exacerbated, occupation further entrenched and international isolation.
http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/hoping-for-a-better-israel/