The not so progressive Palestinian cause

[shira]

...Far from criticizing this militaristic and nationalistic fervor, leading anti-Israel activists like Ali Abunimah and Max Blumenthal tend to echo and justify it. Abunimah has even gone so far as to object to criticism of summary public executions of accused collaborators by Hamas during the war. Similarly, the fascist genocidal Hamas charter that envisages a society dedicated to “jihad” and the religiously sanctioned killing of all Jews is usually politely ignored by activists.

Indeed, by now it is widely considered as distasteful and ‘right-wing’ to take note of the well-documented daily incitement in Palestinian media and public life. A related New York Times article openly acknowledged a few years ago that the paper of record preferred to ignore this subject. However, the deplorable results of this incitement are reflected in surveys of Muslim opinion conducted by the respected Pew Research Center. In the aftermath of the 9/11 attacks, Pew monitored Muslim public opinion about Al Qaeda and Osama bin Laden for a decade, and the survey results document that throughout this decade, Palestinians remained bin Laden’s most ardent admirers. These results are arguably all the more shocking in view of the fact that survey participants were asked if they had “confidence” in bin Laden “to do the right thing in world affairs.” In 2003, bin Laden actually inspired more “confidence” in Palestinians than their iconic strongman Yassir Arafat....

....Since the “rights and needs of the Palestinian people” are usually understood to include a state of their own, it is remarkable how rarely it is debated what kind of state Palestinians envisage. Perhaps the first noteworthy point of the Palestinian draft constitution is that it arguably undermines Palestinian claims of a distinct identity: Article 2 defines Palestine as “part of the Arab homeland” and identifies the “Palestinian people” as “part of the Arab and Islamic nations.” Article 7 stipulates that the “principles of the Islamic shari’a are a main source for legislation,” while the “followers of the monotheistic religions” are merely granted the right to “have their personal status and religious affairs organized according to their shari’as and religious denominations within the framework of [positive] law, while preserving the unity and independence of the Palestinian people.”

The overwhelming majority of Palestinians are Muslims; according to current estimates, Christians comprise only 1-2% of the Arab population in the West Bank and the Gaza Strip. As documented in a Pew survey from 2013 that included almost 40 000 Muslims in 39 countries, Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank were often among the Muslim populations with the most extremist views about the role of Islam in society: 89% of Palestinians want Sharia law; 66% endorse the death penalty for Muslims who convert to another religion; 76% support mutilation as a punishment for theft, and a shocking 84% want adulterers stoned to death.

“Justice” may be one of the central slogans of the supposedly progressive BDS movement, but in view of the medieval sharia “justice” Palestinians want, it is apparently a demand focused strictly on Israel. “Equality” is another goal BDS professes to pursue, but again, there is probably a highly selective interpretation, because Palestinians are definitely not keen on equality for women, let alone for gays. Like the vast majority of Muslim populations everywhere, 89% of Palestinian Muslims regard homosexuality as morally wrong; only 1% is prepared to see it as morally acceptable. When it comes to so-called “honor killings”, less than half (about 45%) of Palestinian Muslims reject these murders as never justified. And like in most Muslim societies, the vast majority of Palestinians – 87% – insists that a wife must always obey her husband. Only 33% of Palestinian Muslims believe a wife should have the right to divorce her husband, and only 43% think that sons and daughters should have equal inheritance rights. Finally, the other main BDS slogan – freedom – also seems to be a demand that isn’t necessarily meant to apply to the state Palestinians supposedly want: when asked if they prefer democracy or a strong leader, just 55% of Palestinian Muslims chose democracy, while 40 % preferred a strong leader; when asked how much political influence religious leaders should have, 29% wanted religious leaders to have a lot of political influence, and another 43% wanted religious leaders to have at least some political influence....

http://www.jpost.com/page.aspx?pageid=13&articleid=406652

[Little Tich]

1. Seems like an attempt to justify racism by cherrypicking statistics.

The author of the OP has written more articles where she likes to prove that muslims as a group are bad and hold extreme views, and that Palestinians are the worst of the lot.

[oberliner]

2. Extremists of every religion hold extreme views

That's what makes them extremist.

Extremists can be found among Jews, Christians, and Muslims.

Nothing to do with race at all.

Surveys of Christians in the US, for instance, reveal some very extreme and hateful views among high percentages of their most fervent followers. The same can be said for fundamentalist Israeli Jews or Palestinian Muslims.

It seems reasonable to criticize the folks who respond that way to survey questions without being accused of justifying racism.

Looking through this person's other writings it seems that they focus their attentions only on the extremism within one group (Palestinians/Muslims) making them a mirror image of Max Blumenthal, Philip Weiss, or Ali Abuminah who direct the focus of their ire on Israelis/Jews.

[Little Tich]

3. There is a very thin line between focus and racism.

If one isn't a racist though, that line isn't easily crossed. When it comes to Weiss, I don't see that line being crossed. I do think that he's sloppy when he omits the almost mandatory disclaimer. "Six Jews sitting in the White House" is a good example of what happens when he doesn't give a shit and just writes down what's on his mind.

I have no informed opinion about Max Blumenthal or Ali Abuminah.

[King_David]

8. A member of our group thought that was a good article to post here on IP

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1134107243

[Little Tich]

12. I don't think that article was anti-Semitic.

I think it's an attempt to explain the very deep unease that some of Jewish people in the US feel for people like Oren. Oren demands that Jews in the US must be PEP, and support everything Israel does, even if it clashes with their sensibilies.

Using anti-Semitic imagery isn't necessarily anti-semitic or a manifestation of anti-Semitism. I think that is was unwise by Philip Weiss to use anti-Semitic imagery in his article. There should be other ways to get the argument across, or else the argument probably wasn't very good anyway.

[King_David]

13. The article was clearly OTT

And agree with Lithos about there being a "fixation " that is "unpalatable " as he said is putting it mildly.

mondoweiss is considered a hate site by some and I don't think that article should ever have been posted here on DU.

Mondoweiss clearly has its issues .

[Little Tich]

14. If there is a valid case against Mondoweiss, please bring it on next time

there's an OP from that site.

I don't like anti-Semites, and would really like to know if mondoweiss is promoting anti-Semitism.

[shira]

16. Phil Weiss said Jews should understand their role in the Holocaust....

Last edited Sat Jun 27, 2015, 10:59 AM - Edit history (1)

...due to all the power they had.

Jews need to “understand our role” in causing the Holocaust because of the “power” we had. Weiss now elaborates that he’s talking about Jewish economic power, as if the German Jew who started as a peddler and built his business into a chain of department stores wasn’t simply an individual Jewish businessman who found success, but instead part of a cabal of Jews using their “power” to undermine the Gentiles, who retaliated via the Holocaust.

Doesn't get more obvious than that.

It's the Protocols of Elders of Zion, Mondoweiss style.

Jews have this evil collective power in controlling the banks, hollywood, governments, foreign policy....

[guillaumeb]

5. Very well said on every point.

The article is a textbook example of how one demonizes the enemy by presenting them as the embodiment of intolerance and evil, while avoiding any reference to the actual circumstances or history of the conflict.

Again, well said.

[oberliner]

6. Glad we can agree

It is encouraging.

[shira]

4. No, it's what BDS & Hamas apologists support as a "just" solution to the conflict.

Another sharia-based, theocratic, totalitarian state in a sea of failed inhumane states throughout the mideast region that brutalize, oppress & butcher their own citizens.

Not progressive.

Unless progressive = totalitarian, theocratic, fascist.

[shira]

7. So you think the author of the OP has more bigoted views towards Muslims....

....than Phil Weiss has towards Jews. At least that's what it seems like.

Fascinating.

I couldn't disagree more with you.

[Little Tich]

9. I still don't know your position on the author of the OP.

Petra Marquardt-Bigman is a racist?

Yea or nay?

[shira]

10. No, not in the least. n/t

[Little Tich]

11. I was hoping that we could agree on that one, but alas...

I don't really know how to proceed from here.

[shira]

15. So let's compare Phil Weiss to Petra...

Both are highly critical of the countries or people they focus on. There's nothing wrong with that unless you want to argue they're being obsessive. In that case, both would have the same problem.

The difference IMO is that when someone deliberately lies, exaggerates, & demonizes a certain people, using bigoted tropes - THAT indicates hatred. I see that with Weiss practically all the time. I don't see that with Petra at all.