Israel and ICC on a collision course

[Little Tich]

Source: Jerusalem Post

The UNHRC report on the 2014 Gaza war and Jerusalem’s response suggest a clash between Israel and the ICC is becoming much more likely.

It turns out this week might just have been the midday sun shower before the much more violent downpour.

Monday’s long-awaited UN Human Rights Council report on last summer’s Operation Protective Edge was by far the most significant event that has occurred in the 10-month legitimacy battle being waged by Israel and the Palestinians over whether war crimes were committed when over 2,100 Palestinians and 73 Israelis lost their lives.

Yet it had only a fraction of the global resonance of the UNHRC’s 2009 Goldstone Report on the 2008- 2009 Gaza conflict.

Read more: http://www.jpost.com/International/Rule-of-law-On-a-collision-course-407174

[deathrind]

1. Good

Israel needs to be held accountable to its actions.

[shira]

2. People are cheerleading this effort, but it's a prescription for more war....

Hamas sees this as a victory. They will continue to attack Israel every 1-2 years the same way, and why not? They get exactly what they want each time with PR wins & the making of Israel into a pariah state. They have nothing to lose & will fight to the last drop of Palestinian blood if need be.

Meanwhile, Israelis look at this & remember the Gaza pullout. What'd they get for that? Rockets & war-crime allegations ever since. What will they get for getting out of the W.Bank? Even more war & this time much deadlier for Israelis as all it will take are a few mortar rounds into Tel Aviv and Jerusalem to ignite a war. And then of course in response, more war-crimes allegations if the IDF dares act in self-defense to that. Gee, what great motivation to get out of the W.Bank!

[Little Tich]

3. Do you have any comments on the OP? n/t

[shira]

4. Like Goldstone, this recent report is a fraud & the ICC doesn't have enough....

....to go on to prosecute Israelis. The only genuine expert analysis aside from the IDF's own investigations that the ICC will have at its disposal is the recent report from military experts that shows Israel exceeded legal standards during the war.

http://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-did-not-commit-war-crimes-in-gaza-says-multi-national-military-group/

With no other military experts to rebuff that expert testimony, the ICC has nothing to go on.

================

This is all a waste of time and resources better served for real human rights offenses worldwide. Anyone sane should agree with that, considering the UNHRC record for the past 10 years.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1134&pid=107589

Do you actually believe that a UN human rights commission with a record like that has any legitimacy at all?

Keeping that record in mind....

Consider that Hamas was never singled out once in this report (or in the fraudulent Goldstone Report). How can the ICC hold Hamas responsible when they're never once implicated in the report? It's a total hoax where only Israel is to blame.

Anyway, this is why sane people don't take the UN seriously.

[shira]

5. With military experts saying Israel exceeded legal standards in Gaza....

...the only way the ICC can convict Israel is to delegitimize all those experts.

Good luck at that.

They're not Israelis (Hasbarabots) who the UN, Media, and NGO's can dismiss so easily as biased, lying propagandists.

This is going nowhere.

Top Generals to U.N.: Israel Exceeded Legal Standards in Gaza War
http://www.worldjewishdaily.com/generals-israel-gaza-war.php

Israel exceeded legal standards during last year's war in Gaza, often endangering its own soldiers and civilians in order to protect Gaza citizens.

That is the conclusion of a report by a group of top former military commanders and government officials on the conduct of Israel's army during last year's Operation Protective Edge. Their report was submitted to the United Nations Human Rights Council, which is soon expected to release a report on the Gaza war.

We examined the circumstances that led to the tragic conflict last summer and are in no doubt that this was not a war that Israel wanted. In reality Israel sought to avoid the conflict and exercised great restraint over a period of months before the war when its citizens were targeted by sporadic rocket attacks from Gaza. Once the war had begun, Israel made repeated efforts to terminate the fighting. The war that Israel was eventually compelled to fight against Hamas and other Gaza extremists was a legitimate war, necessary to defend its citizens and its territory against sustained attack from beyond its borders.

Our overall findings are that during Operation Protective Edge last summer, in the air, on the ground and at sea, Israel not only met a reasonable international standard of observance of the laws of armed conflict, but in many cases significantly exceeded that standard. We saw clear evidence of this from the upper to the lower levels of command. A measure of the seriousness with which Israel took its moral duties and its responsibilities under the laws of armed conflict is that in some cases Israel’s scrupulous adherence to the laws of war cost Israeli soldiers’ and civilians’ lives.

It probably won't make a whit of difference to the UNHRC, which has a pronounced anti-Israel bias, but its good to know that expert impartial observers agree with what the IDF has been saying all along.

[6chars]

6. Is there any reason Israel would not trust ICC's sense of justice?

[Little Tich]

7. The ICC hasn't been wrong in the past, so I trust the ICC to make the right decision.

If the allegations of war crimes are untrue, their investigation will show that. Whichever way it goes, it's good for all parties involved to know where the legal parameters lie, and hopefully all the allegations will be either dismissed or dealt with.

[shira]

9. The problem is that the ICC needs military experts to make their case....

Last edited Sun Jun 28, 2015, 05:51 PM - Edit history (1)

The UNHRC had no military representation on the team that generated the McGowan-Davis report.

The only way the ICC can convict would be purely political & not based on actual military practice & expertise. Not unless they find other experts to refute the world's top Generals.

Fat chance of that happening.

So sure, if you're looking for a purely political verdict against Israel then that can definitely happen. The ICC is part of the same UN that has passed more resolutions & condemnations against Israel over the past decade than the rest of the world combined.

It's all an act & as you know, a complete farce.

And the world's worst oppressive regimes are loving it, as a constant & obsessive political focus on Israel keeps the spotlight off them.

[6chars]

12. can't icc just do what it wants

to some degree they are concerned about their legitimacy and moral authority, but i don't think there is any recourse if they make an unjust decision. what would be the recourse? take them to the icc? and i am not sure how much it would harm their legitimacy if they, hypothetically, declared israel a war crime in a kangaroo court. as far as i can tell, they lay off big countries anyway.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

8. Israel will be the author of its own undoing.

[shira]

10. Nah, there's literally nothing Israel can do other than commit....

Last edited Sun Jun 28, 2015, 05:50 PM - Edit history (1)

....national suicide to satiate the majority of the world's nations (mostly fascist).

If Israel were to give the Palestinians everything they want - but Israel stays intact - the world would still go after Israel and pass more resolutions & condemnations against it than all other nations combined.

The delegitimizers would see to it, wouldn't they?

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

11. "The delegitimizers would see to it, wouldn't they?"

Nope. Hope you get that myopia checked out soon, though.

[shira]

13. No? That's what BDS is all about. Inciting hatred, isolating the Jewish state......

Being against the very existence of Israel.

It's not even about actual BDS. It's about delegitimizing Israel every which way they can with the most outrageous hateful propaganda. Through the media, UN, etc. If BDS becomes a reality, great. But if not, the bad press & continuous demonization does the trick.

This is a fact that isn't even debatable among objective people.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

14. "Being against the very existence of Israel." No, shira.

BDS is a global movement to end Israeli apartheid.