Netanyahu to Gaza flotilla: Did you mean to sail to Syria?

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

http://972mag.com/netanyahu-to-gaza-flotilla-didnt-you-mean-to-sail-to-syria/108241/

The “Freedom Flotilla III” is due to approach the Gaza coastline in a matter of hours, sometime overnight Sunday. Its declared mission is to non-violently challenge Israel’s nine-year blockade of the Strip by bringing in medical equipment and other humanitarian aid. It is not expected to actually reach Gaza, as Israel plans to stop the four boats, just as it has done in previous attempts in 2011 and the infamous Mavi Marmara in 2010, which ended with the killing of nine people on board.

Prime Minister Netanyahu published a letter Sunday night that he intends to present to all the participants, in which he sarcastically mocks those aboard (my translation):

"It appears you made a wrong turn. Welcome to Israel. Maybe you intended to sail somewhere not too far from here: Syria, where the Assad regime is massacring his people daily, with the support of the lethal Iranian regime."

---

Netanyahu states that there is no blockade while at the same time declaring that Israel will prohibit the flotilla from reaching Gaza. It is the IDF’s naval blockade of the Strip – deemed legitimate by international law – that enables Israel to force the ships to revert to docking in the port in Ashdod. It is the blockade that allows Israel to shoot at Gaza fisherman on a regular basis. Also, what does the blockade of 1.8 million Palestinians have to do with Syria?

[oberliner]

1. Palestinians in Syria facing ‘imminent threat’: PLO

Some 150,000 Palestinian refugees in four camps on the outskirts of Damascus face severe threats due to ongoing fighting in the Syrian conflict, a PLO official said Thursday.

“We are deeply concerned about refugees in Khan al-Sheikh camp, which is the closest to ongoing fighting between the Syrian army, rebels and the al-Nusra Front," Ahmad Majdalani, a PLO Executive Committee member, said.

"Refugees from Danoun, Mirjan and Sayyida Zeinab are all within range of the ongoing events,” he added.

The majority of Palestinians in those camps are originally from Yarmouk refugee camp, which has been on the front-line of the Syrian conflict and severely affected by fighting.

Around 7,000 Palestinian refugees remain in Yarmouk, Majdalani said, with the situation there growing "worse and worse."

The PLO official said that refugees in Ein el-Hilweh camp in Lebanon are also under threat due to fighting between Salafist groups, the Lebanese army, and Hezbollah, with several groups trying to involve refugees in the fighting.

Yarmouk, in southern Damascus, was once a thriving neighborhood home to some 160,000 residents, both Syrians and Palestinians.

But the camp has been ravaged by Syria's conflict, with a government siege and fighting between regime and rebel forces making life inside virtually unlivable for residents

http://www.albawaba.com/news/palestinians-syria-facing-‘imminent-threat’-plo-712048

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

2. It's too bad that some refuse to acknowledge that ROR would help this problem go away

But please deflect from the OP.

Remember the OP? Flotilla, Gaza, Netanyahu.

[oberliner]

4. The OP you posted is about Bibi telling the flotilla to sail to Syria

In fact that is in the title so I am not sure how responding to that comparison "deflects from the OP" when the situation in Syria and how or why it is related to the flotilla is directly contained within the content of the OP.

In response to the OP, I would argue that anyone who cares about Palestinians ought to be doing as much as possible to bring attention to their plight in Syria. Certainly they are facing (at the very least) an equally serious crisis as the Palestinians in Gaza. Most, I think, would argue that it is an even more acute and more significant crisis being faced by Palestinians in Syria.

Is that not a reasonable position to take, in your view?

Further, to respond to your claim that "ROR would help this problem go away" I would also point out that Abbas rejected a conditional Israeli offer to let Palestinian refugees in Syria resettle in the West Bank and Gaza in 2013 saying it would be better for them to die in Syria than accept the Israeli conditions, which, regrettably, many of them since have.

In any case, it seems self-evident that anyone who cares about the plight of the Palestinian people would be as focused on what is going in Syria as what is going on in Gaza, if not moreso considering the immediacy of the crisis in the former situation.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

15. And you, like King Bibi, attempt to make it aout Syria when it is about Gaza!

[shira]

16. The OP is about Gaza vs. Syria. Obie's on point, you're deflecting.

So tell me, why do BDS'ers totally ignore the situation for Palestinians in Syria?

It's because they don't give a shit about Palestinians & never have.

You have a better answer than that?

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

24. You show impeccable taste at being wrong 100% of the time.

[azurnoir]

3. Ah the Syria diversion again

the tragic situation in Syria is used to divert attention away from Gaza, the West Bank, and most of all Israel.

What should be known is that when Ban Ki Moon requested Israel allow some of the Palestinian refugees from Yarmouk into refugee camps in the West Bank , Bibi/Israel cynically claimed they would only allow it if the refugees signed papers limiting their future freedom of movement , the Israeli press quickly got into the act making claims it was Abbas that asked and that there were claims that Abbas at some alleged meeting with Egyptian reporters supposedly said albeit direct eyewitnesses seem quite lacking,the refugees were better off dead in Syria, Israel's hasbara team quickly spread the story like manure on fallow field. and nothing more was heard about it or Bibis attempt at blackmail

[oberliner]

5. Palestinians being slaughtered in Syria is "a diversion" to some

That really says a lot. The fact that you see the situation there as a diversion rather than as the primary concern for all who care about Palestinians gives quite a window into where you are coming from.

And, of course, you neglect to mention that the Abbas comments were reported by the Associated Press (Mohammed Darghameh):

Palestinian leader rejects deal on Syria refugees

Abbas said Ban was told Israel "agreed to the return of those refugees to Gaza and the West Bank, but on condition that each refugee ... sign a statement that he doesn't have the right of return (to Israel)."

"So we rejected that and said it's better they die in Syria than give up their right of return," Abbas told the group. Some of his comments were published Thursday by the Palestinian news website Sama.

http://news.yahoo.com/palestinian-leader-rejects-deal-syria-refugees-105551580.html

But I guess to some even Palestinian journalists working for the AP are part of some kind of "hasbara team".

[azurnoir]

6. you edited out the part about Abbas statement being hearsay here is the snip in full

and you neglect to say that in reality Mohmmed Daraghmeh is a writer for the Rightwing Times of Israel

Abbas said he asked U.N. chief Ban Ki-moon last month to seek Israeli permission to bring Palestinians caught in Syria's civil war to the Palestinian territories. The request came after fighting between Syrian troops and rebel fighters in Yarmouk, the largest Palestinian refugee camp in Syria. About half of the camp's 150,000 residents have fled, according to a U.N. aid agency.

Abbas told a group of Egyptian journalists in Cairo late Wednesday that Ban contacted Israel on his behalf.

Abbas said Ban was told Israel "agreed to the return of those refugees to Gaza and the West Bank, but on condition that each refugee ... sign a statement that he doesn't have the right of return (to Israel)."

"So we rejected that and said it's better they die in Syria than give up their right of return," Abbas told the group. Some of his comments were published Thursday by the Palestinian news website Sama

http://news.yahoo.com/palestinian-leader-rejects-deal-syria-refugees-105551580.html

but do keep diverting from the Gaza Flotilla

[oberliner]

8. Did you read the OP? Syria is in the title

Have a look at this statement from the UNWRA:

Being a Palestine refugee in Gaza means being a victim of a blockade that affects every aspect of one’s life and being dependent on food aid while being educated and wishing to be self-sufficient. Being a Palestine refugee in Aida camp near Bethlehem means living under the fear of daily incursions and detentions, as well as the anguish of denied access to opportunities. Being a Palestine refugee in the Yarmouk refugee camp in Damascus means being a resident trapped by a merciless siege and bombardments and violence, deprived of regular access to water, food, electricity and basic health,” Mr. Krähenbühl declared.

http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=51173#.VZCUP-uprzI

It is really simple to express concern for all Palestinians, be they in Gaza or Syria.

[azurnoir]

11. I read the OP and the tragedy in Syria is being used as diversion, a look over there

[oberliner]

12. Read that statement from the UNWRA

People like Netanyahu want you to ignore the first two and focus only on the third.

People like these flotilla activists want you to ignore the third and focus only on the first two.

People who truly care about and work to help Palestinians as their job believe that it is important to address all three.

If you actually want to help, please consider making a donation here:

http://www.unrwa.org/donate

[shira]

17. You got it backwards. Israel is the diversion for what's happening in Syria....

The UN makes Israel a diversion to cover for crimes in Syria, N.Korea, Venezuela, Russia, China, Iran, etc.. when they pass more resolutions & condemnations against Israel than all other countries combined.

You know that.

So why the pretense?

[azurnoir]

7. moreover it was well over 2 years ago January of 2013

what has vveen done since?

[shira]

18. Not a peep from the BDS "peace" camp other than condemning....

....Israel for requiring Palestinians in Syria to sign off on a RoR that has no legal basis.

There was absolutely no condemnation of Abbas for signing the death warrants of thousands of Palestinians.

It's because the hostile anti-Israel contingent doesn't give a shit about Palestinians.

You have a better explanation?

[azurnoir]

26. first off Abbas had nothing to do with it the request came from Ban Ki Moon not Abbas

the rest is hearsay published by a rightwing Times of Israel staffer

[shira]

42. Enough of the denial. Abbas refused to allow Syrian Palestinians in....

Last edited Wed Jul 1, 2015, 08:26 AM - Edit history (1)

Here's Ramzy Baroud (no rightwing Zionist) writing an article about it....
http://www.internationalpolicydigest.org/2015/04/15/the-tragedy-of-yarmouk/

Baroud used Arab media when he linked to the confirmation that Abbas refused Israel's offer...
http://www.aawsat.net/2013/07/article55309528/attempt-to-secure-return-of-palestinian-refugees-in-syria-fails

Here's the "rightwing" Al-Arabiya reporting the same thing as AP...
http://english.alarabiya.net/articles/2013/01/10/259678.html

And finally, your fave Ma'an also reporting on it...
http://www.maannews.com/Content.aspx?id=557940

Of course, you're the only one in denial because you know better. FFS, why aren't you condemning Abbas for signing the death warrants of thousands of Palestinians in Syria?

How hard would it be to call Abbas out for that? Who are you defending? Abbas or Palestinians?

[oberliner]

20. When they try to give medical aid to injured Syrians they are accused of "supporting ISIS"

It's kind of a lose-lose situation for Israel.

[azurnoir]

27. i've read the 'Syrians' Israel is aiding belong to al Nusra Front an al Qaeda offshoot

I'm not sure about the relationship with ISIS

[MisterP]

13. isn't Israel on an-Nusra's side now?

[Little Tich]

14. Let's just pretend that there is a mistranslation, and that Bibi never meant those hateful things.

[shira]

19. He's wrong on an awful lot of shit, but Bibi is right on this one....

Why aren't the so-called humanitarians of BDS concerned about Palestinians in Syria?

Abbas said it's better they die in Syria than sign-off on a RoR. Israel would've allowed them safe passage into the W.Bank. Abbas refused.

What say you?

[Little Tich]

22. What do you think about the hidden post?

Complete change of subject...

I would have voted do not hide on that one. While I disagree completely with the sentiment expressed in the post, I do think that the sentiment is shared with at least some on the pro-Israeli side. Attacking the policies of Israel can be seen as being an attack on Israel. While it isn't, it should be OK to express a wide range of misgivings about it.

[shira]

23. It shouldn't have been hidden.

What do you think Right-of-Return would mean for the Jewish state?

[Little Tich]

32. I think that giving the right of return to Palestinians is OK.

After all, Jews in Israel will still have the same rights, live in the same place, have the same jobs and lose nothing, if right of return for Palestinians were implemented. In a way, Israeli citizenship is a birthright for Palestinian refugees, as their ancestral homeland is in Israel. I believe that everyone has a right to live in their ancestral homeland. I'm unable to understand how equal rights is a bad thing, but I know that many seem to think that.

[shira]

34. Jews would then become a minority within Israel....

And we know how history has turned out for Jews who were minorities in other countries. In this case, it would be far worse. Think France, but 100x worse. Why would anyone sane call for that?

If Palestinians want to live in their ancestral homeland, they have Gaza, the W.Bank and Jordan which are all part of historic Palestine. The vast majority of refugees are already living there & are at most displaced persons, not refugees. There's no reason they must live in Israel if they're already within historic Palestine but just a few miles out of Israel. After a peace deal they could always apply for citizenship within Israel if that's what they want.

In any case, there is no legal RoR for the vast majority called refugees. At best, that right only goes to the original 1948 refugees, not all their descendants. Even the original refugees must be willing to live "at peace" within Israel. This "right" of return is nonsense & is only used as a weapon by Arab leadership. It's an absolute crime that so many Palestinians haven't gotten on with their lives since 1948, and it's the world who is responsible for that - not Israel.

[Little Tich]

36. The white peeps are not in majority in the US anymore, and there's no problem with that.

I don't see how giving ROR for Palestinians would be different.

But why on earth would the Palestinians go to Jordan? What's the connection?

[shira]

38. Wow - you really have no idea what goes on in that part of the world

How do you think Jews fare throughout the rest of the mideast? From Egypt to Iraq & Iran....it's not good. Historically, it hasn't been good but it's just gotten worse in the past century.

You know who Hamas and the PLO are? What makes you think they'd treat a minority of Jews any better than Egypt or Jordan (the only 2 countries who've made peace treaties with Israel)? In Jordan, there are no Jews & selling land to Jews is illegal there. In Egypt, I'm not sure there are more than 100-200 Jews total. In Gaza there are 0 Jews. In the W.Bank, Abbas has called for no Jews there either.

Are you seriously unaware of this? Did you know that the last time Jews and Arabs lived together before 1948 in that area, there was a civil war (1947) that preceded the Arab invasion of 1948? What makes you think the 2 peoples would get along fine, like whites and blacks in America?

Now look at France and how their Jews are trying to escape the country. What makes you think Jews would fare better within a majority Arab state of Israel than in France? At least Jews in France can go to Israel. It would've been nice if the Jews of the WW2 era had Israel as a choice of destination back then. Where would Jews go when shit hits the fan within a majority Arab Israeli state?

Have you not thought this through? Seriously?

Within an Arab majority state, Hamas, Islamic Jihad, and the PLO would be the preferred government. Not anything liberal or progressive. That's bad news not only for women, christians, gays, and bahai, but in particular Jews.

[Little Tich]

41. Your point is well argued, but you are wrong.

Palestinians that immigrate to developed countries don't stand out as extremists to my knowledge. The theory of a race war hasn't exactly been proven either, although it's a common theme in certain circles. Palestinian ROR wouldn't be much different than Mizrahi immigration.

You're simply trying to demonize Arabs.

BTW, I disagree somewhat with your sig line. I think Zionism is a racist political ideology like all other nationalist ideologies.

[shira]

43. Actually, due to Hamas/PLO brainwashing, Palestinians have more extreme views.....

....than other Arabs throughout the mideast.

They support Bin-Laden more than anyone else in that region...
http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/poll-palestinians-retained-highest-support-of-osama-bin-laden-since-2003-1.359453

When Palestinians are always bombarded in their media and schools by Hamas & the PLO, with propaganda showing admiration for Hitler and Holocaust denial, that constant 24-7-365 brainwashing tends to shape opinions. Making Hitler's agenda seem appealing...
http://www.palwatch.org/main.aspx?fi=655

Even if you want to close your eyes & assume the 2 links above are racist & untrustworthy, only 10% of Palestinians support a secular 1-state progressive democracy...
http://www.washingtoninstitute.org/uploads/Documents/other/PalestinianPollingReport_June2014.pdf

Meaning that 90% are okay with a sharia-based law system similar to other failed governments throughout the mideast. All of which are hostile to Jews.

There are other polls too...
http://www.jpost.com/Diplomacy-and-Politics/6-in-10-Palestinians-reject-2-state-solution-survey-finds

Asked about the fate of Jerusalem, 92% said it should be the capital of Palestine, 1% said the capital of Israel, 3% the capital of both, and 4% a neutral international city. Seventy-two percent backed denying the thousands of years of Jewish history in Jerusalem, 62% supported kidnapping IDF soldiers and holding them hostage, and 53% were in favor or teaching songs about hating Jews in Palestinian schools. When given a quote from the Hamas Charter about the need for battalions from the Arab and Islamic world to defeat the Jews, 80% agreed. Seventy-three percent agreed with a quote from the charter (and a hadith, or tradition ascribed to the prophet Muhammad) about the need to kill Jews hiding behind stones and trees.

You're grossly misinformed.

[azurnoir]

28. I'll venture a guess that it wasn't the opinion in the title line that got the post hidden

it was the accusation aimed at another DUer that got it hidden

[Little Tich]

29. I think that the general sentiment expressed in the post is shared by others.

It's a legitimate concern that should be addressed, not silenced. I don't want those who oppose my views on the right of return to be forbidden to express their heartfelt sentiments on the subject. After all, there is a widespread view that the Jewish state needs a Jewish majority. The jury decision wasn't clear cut either, with 4-3 voting to hide.

I don't know, perhaps the sentiment could be expressed in a more polite way?

[azurnoir]

30. did you read the entire post?

[Little Tich]

31. I'm not going to champion a post I don't even agree with.

I just don't think it was rude enough to deserve to be hidden. If it would have been directed at me, which it well could have been, I wouldn't have been too bothered.

[shira]

40. The problem is the pretense, lies, & deception....

Anyone who knows anything about RoR knows that would end Israel & end the Jewish state.

It would result in chaos & war.

With an Arab majority (like anywhere else in the mideast) Jews would be 2nd or 3rd class citizens at best. At worst, ethnically cleansed or massacred. Like in Egypt or Jordan, Jews wouldn't feel safe there & would move elsewhere.

Ergo, the end of Israel.

[shira]

21. The Flotillists want Hamas to be able to arm itself unimpeded

This mission had nothing to do with humanitarian concern. In fact, the boat that was stopped had no aid in it whatsoever.
http://www.timesofisrael.com/defense-minister-denies-humanitarian-crisis-in-gaza/

Fact is, Gazans get everything they need through Israel. Egypt's blockade is far more severe.
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/talking/62_Blockade.html

That's not enough for the Hamas apologists who support & encourage Hamas' war against Jews, and worse, against their own people in Gaza. Down to the last Palestinian if need be.

Bunch of hateful losers & assholes.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

25. "Bunch of hateful losers & assholes."

BDS is winning the war, shira.


The end game is coming soon to Israeli apartheid.

[Little Tich]

33. If there was no contraband on the boat, why was it stopped?

It seems as if the blockade is meant to make the lives of ordinary Gazans miserable, not hindering the flow of weapons into Gaza.

[shira]

35. If it's not stopped, then the blockade is over & all ships could then get in....

...with whatever cargo they choose, including weapons.

[Little Tich]

37. That system seems to work in the rest of the world.

If a ship is suspected of carrying illegal arms, it's boarded and inspected. If nothing suspicious is found, the ship is allowed to continue on its journey.

I don't get it. What's so special with Gaza?

[shira]

39. Are you not aware of the Hamas agenda? To kill Jews, destroy Israel?

Hamas & their Islamic Jihadi friends are absolute psychopaths. They not only make genocidal threats, they act on them.

I'm not aware of any other country under the same threat as Israel that will just inspect & allow ships to continue their journey into enemy territory. And what are we talking here? Allowing ships originating from Iran & Qatar into Gaza after inspection? Why waste time and resources on that?

If you're worried about Gaza getting food and humanitarian supplies, Israel already allows all that in so the reality of the situation is that there is no blockade of Gaza. Else, Israel would prevent that.