How the boycott hurts Palestinians

[Fozzledick]

In this small West Bank town, business with Jewish settler neighbors is crucial for economic survival. Calling for a boycott may be fashionable, but these everyday Palestinians are the people who will get hurt.

The push by BDS leaders has made the boycott the most fashionable way for Europeans and Americans to protest against the Israeli occupation. But for Palestinians, this is a problem, to say the least.

How much contact do boycott proponents have with average Palestinians, not those who work in offices in Ramallah? If they were to come to Husan and dozens of other villages like it in the West Bank, the European and American activists would find that Palestinian entrepreneurs and workers want and need more contact with Israelis, not less.

"We small-time entrepreneurs in Palestine cannot survive without working with Israelis, and the benefits are mutual," Samir states. "For us, the boycott, the moukata'a, is ridiculous. Nobody here likes the Israeli occupation, but cutting ties would be a death wish."

It appears to many Palestinians - and to this journalist - that most BDS proponents in the West either have never been to Israel and Palestine, or do not know much about the ties between the two peoples that exist for better or worse. Or perhaps they care more about trying to damage Israel than they do about improving Palestinians' lives.

http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-1.664969

[guillaumeb]

1. My reply to this "rationalization for occupation" follows.

How the boycott hurts South Africans:

In this small Bantustan town, business with Afrikans settler neighbors is crucial for economic survival. Calling for a boycott may be fashionable, but these everyday blacks are the people who will get hurt.

The push by BDS leaders has made the boycott the most fashionable way for Europeans and Americans to protest against the Afrikaner occupation. But for blacks, this is a problem, to say the least.

How much contact do boycott proponents have with average black South Africans, not those who work in offices in Cape Town? If they were to come to my village, and dozens of other villages like it in the Bantustan, the European and American activists would find that black entrepreneurs and workers want and need more contact with Afrikaners, not less.

"We small-time entrepreneurs in Bantustan cannot survive without working with Afrikaners, and the benefits are mutual," Sam states. "For us, the boycott is ridiculous. Nobody here likes the occupation, but cutting ties would be a death wish."

It appears to many blacks - and to this journalist - that most BDS proponents in the West either have never been to South Africa or do not know much about the ties between the two peoples that exist for better or worse. Or perhaps they care more about trying to damage the Afrikaners than they do about improving black lives.



And articles like the original were quite common in the western press during the time of the BDS movement that was directed against the Afrikaners in South Africa. Similar articles were written for the press in the southern US during the slave days. An oppressor can always rationalize the oppression as having benefits for the oppressed.
http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-1.664969

[Kelvin Mace]

2. Be sure to forward this to HRC

now that she has promised right-wing billionaires that she will help them combat the BDS movement.

[guillaumeb]

4. Regrettably, I am NOT on her calling list, or I would do so.

What is sad, and interesting, is that generally the IS Congress is nearly 100% supportive of Israeli actions. No matter what the actions are, no matter how illegal, it is rare to see a US politician stand up for the law and against Israeli state aggression.

I feel that articles like this are nothing more than rationalizations for the occupation.

[Kelvin Mace]

7. Sorry,

meant my remark for the OP, not you. I agree with your view.

[Fozzledick]

3. So you got nothing but cheesy name calling and false analogies.

So what else is new?

[guillaumeb]

5. I rewrote the article to highlight that it is an apologia for occupation.

When I added my opinion, which was:
"And articles like the original were quite common in the western press during the time of the BDS movement that was directed against the Afrikaners in South Africa. Similar articles were written for the press in the southern US during the slave days. An oppressor can always rationalize the oppression as having benefits for the oppressed. "

I was writing about what actually happened. Please enlighten me and point out the falseness of the analogy.

[Fozzledick]

6. Actually, I think you've demonstrated the authors point.

It appears to many Palestinians - and to this journalist - that most BDS proponents in the West either have never been to Israel and Palestine, or do not know much about the ties between the two peoples that exist for better or worse. Or perhaps they care more about trying to damage Israel than they do about improving Palestinians' lives.

I could point out that Israel is not South Africa and that a defensive military occupation of an obstinate aggressor is not apartheid, but you've already chosen to ignore the facts and there's no point in taking your tired knee-jerk propaganda seriously.

[procon]

9. That's some seriously flawed logic.

So, Israel denies Palestinians the right to govern or even protect themselves under the guise of a unilateral claim to self-defense and then justifies its oppression by labeling it "a defensive military occupation"? That won't change public opinion any more than these one off stories about some unfortunate Palestinian business caught up in the messy politics driving the discrimination and inequality of Israel's apartheid policies that created these problems in the first place.

The Israeli government is rightly concerned about the financial stability of their own business sector as the BDS action grows. However, beyond another opportunity to exploit the long-suffering Palestinians for propaganda purposes, there is no evidence that they are even remotely concerned about economic justice for the Palestinians.

[shira]

10. Palestinians aren't denied the right to govern.

Nearly all Palestinians in Gaza and the W.Bank are already governed by either Hamas or the PA. The only ones not are those living in area C under Israeli administration (at most, 5% of all Palestinians west of the Jordan river).

[procon]

16. If that bizarro fantasy were true then the Palestinians must be agreeable to

the Israeli occupation and welcome the violent invasion and attacks on their land, the confiscation of their properties and the destruction of their own homes, right? Whatever niceties are set to paper to prop up the weak arguments of the defenders of Israeli injustice, they have no relationship to the real world practices of discrimination and oppression that are the hallmarks of apartheid governments and military occupation around the globe.

[shira]

17. It's not possible to have a realistic discussion when you're throwing....

...around terms you have no clue about, like Apartheid.

You can't even acknowledge Hamas and the PA govern in Gaza & part of the W.Bank.

Lemme know when you're willing to have a reality based discussion.

[procon]

19. That was a very poorly framed dodge.

In my reality, world opinion and public attitudes are rapidly changing and already producing profound shifts in government policies. The US is a prime example as activists push to stop businesses, as well as our government and public institutions from using taxpayer money to support a foreign government that codifies policies of discrimination, inequality and injustice. Its too late to prevent it or stop all the ordinary people who oppose discrimination.

These cherished concepts of equality and justice for all are enshrined in our society and culture because they are at the core of our nation's existence. If they are not high on Israel's reality, then we can -- and are -- capable of providing the impetus to bring about a long overdue change.

[shira]

25. There's nothing Israel can really do if the Palestinians....

.....keep saying no to every 2-state proposal, as they've done many times before and since 1948. The situation for Palestinians must not be so bad when Hamas and the PLO feel their situation is better now under "Apartheid" than having their own sovereign state free of occupation and settlements.

The "world" needs to realize the conflict exists due to vile Jew hatred in that part of the world. When that is addressed properly, the conflict ends. It's as simple as that.

Think about it - which other stateless people now (Kurds, Tibetans) would reject their own land and freedom given the chance? The answer is that the Palestinians who are represented by Hamas and the PLO do not want their own state as much as they want Israel gone.

[guillaumeb]

20. If I carefully redact the ad hominen element of your argument, leaving only

the actual point being made, we are left with:









actually nothing. The fact that you, or anyone, can characterize what is a history of constant land theft and violation of International Law as in fact a defensive occupation tells me all I need to know about your position. You can ignore history, and facts, but history has a way of adjusting for such mistakes.

[shira]

8. Nice try, but it's rubbish. Now what exactly do you want BDS to accomplish?

Please, in 3-5 sentences or less.

[guillaumeb]

21. You characterize reality as rubbish. How can I respond to that? eom

[shira]

26. Not sure you're aware of the reality of the situation at all.

BDS isn't necessary when the Palestinians keep saying "no" to every 2 state proposal. The reason they say "no" is because they want Israel gone more than they want their own state. That's reality.

The fact is that Hamas and the PLO prefer the current situation (occupation, settlements, "apartheid&quot to having their own sovereign state alongside Israel in peace.

Again - tell me what you want BDS to accomplish. Please.

[guillaumeb]

34. You have made a claim.

"The fact is that Hamas and the PLO prefer the current situation (occupation, settlements, "apartheid&quot to having their own sovereign state alongside Israel in peace."

Now back it up.

[azurnoir]

11. saw a thread that might be fitting here to some degree

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026948294

[Fozzledick]

12. I don't see how.

Are you saying that the "S" in "BDS" stands for slavery? I thought it was just "slaughter".

Are you going full Orwellian with "Slavery is Freedom"? That makes about as much sense as "Self defense is apartheid".

Or are you just throwing mud and hoping it will stick?

[azurnoir]

13. I didn't think you would but that's okay

however it's simple it points out another situation in which the perpetrators a ridiculously bad situation for a group of people are attempting to make it seem somehow beneficial to the intended victim-in the case of the linked thread the intended victim is having none of it

[Fozzledick]

14. Nah, that's neither fitting nor accurate, but I can see why you want to divert

from the original point that BDS actually hurts Palestinians more than Israelis, but its supporters don't really care.

[azurnoir]

15. Not really but you're entitled you're to your opinion-IMO post #1 dd that nicely

[azurnoir]

23. .................

Here is what BDS's goals are from their own website

The campaign for boycotts, divestment and sanctions (BDS) is shaped by a rights-based approach and highlights the three broad sections of the Palestinian people: the refugees, those under military occupation in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, and Palestinians in Israel. The call urges various forms of boycott against Israel until it meets its obligations under international law by:


Ending its occupation and colonization of all Arab lands occupied in June 1967 and dismantling the Wall;

Recognizing the fundamental rights of the Arab-Palestinian citizens of Israel to full equality; and

Respecting, protecting and promoting the rights of Palestinian refugees to return to their homes and properties as stipulated in UN Resolution 194.

The BDS call was endorsed by over 170 Palestinian political parties, organizations, trade unions and movements. The signatories represent the refugees, Palestinians in the OPT, and Palestinian citizens of Israel.

- See more at: http://www.bdsmovement.net/bdsintro#sthash.zJueEoVN.dpuf

[shira]

27. And anyone honest knows a full RoR means the end of Israel....

Nevermind the fact there is no such thing as a full RoR for millions of Palestinians based on International Law.

If BDS gets its way, Jews would again be a minority within their homeland (as they've been for 2000 years - with pogroms, inquisitions, holocaust). If becoming a minority under a Hamas/PLO government doesn't result in Apartheid and ethnic cleansing at best (genocide at worst) then how do you honestly think Jews would fare?

[azurnoir]

28. No anyone reasonable knows that the cocurts will tied up for years and years as each and every claim

is disputed and that is fact, the rest is IMO paranoid or disingenuous fantasy

[shira]

29. Bullshit. n/t

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

31. Care to elaborate?

[Mosby]

35. what does un res 194 talk about?

And do you think it's OK for Israel to have a secure border?

[guillaumeb]

22. More than fitting Azurnoir.

But I fear that the point would be wasted. Far too many people prefer to live with the imaginary history, or mythstory, that they have been taught. It makes it easier to ignore the war crimes if one rationalizes every offensive move as a purely defensive reaction.

A very good letter, by the way.

[Fozzledick]

24. Yes, I notice you do that a lot.

[guillaumeb]

33. You are very good at setting up straw people and knocking them down.

I am still waiting for a substantive rebuttal or refutation of my comments.

[CanadaexPat]

30. I don't want to hurt Palestinians, therefore I support Israel.

[sarcasm]

[Little Tich]

32. For me, it's a moral imperative to boycott apartheid.

It's true that black South Africans suffered from the boycott during the apartheid era, but they got their rights in the end.

[Mosby]

36. so collective punishment is OK sometimes?

The end justifies the means even if Arab Israelis and others are hurt in the process?

[Little Tich]

37. In a way, it does.

Without the boycott, there's a definite risk that the apartheid in the West Bank may still be in place next year, or even in perpetuity. Apartheid is a special case, and the previous boyott of apartheid in South Africa was a success.

This boycott isn't permanent, it will only stay in place until the settlements are removed or the Palestinians in the West Bank and Jerusalem receive Israeli citizenship. Hopefully, it won't take too long for the Israeli people to choose which.