Israel/Palestine
Related: About this forumReport: Jeremy Corbyn Led Campaign to Free Israeli Embassy in London Bombers
Jeremy Corbyn, the front-running candidate for the leadership of the British Labour Party, was one of the main activists behind the campaign to free the two people convicted of bombing the Israeli Embassy in London and a Jewish charity, the Jewish Chronicle reported Tuesday.
Corbyn reportedly raised the case for the two bombers in Parliament on several occasions and backed their numerous unsuccessful appeals and attempts to overturn their convictions, calling them a miscarriage of justice.
14 people were injured on July 26, 1994 when a car bomb packed with 20 to 30 pounds of explosives exploded in front of the Israeli Embassy, causing great damage. A car bomb went off at the offices of the United Jewish Israel Appeal (UJIA) the next morning in Finchley in North London, injuring another six people.
Two Palestinians educated in Britain, Jawad Botmeh and Samar Alami, were found guilty of "conspiracy to cause explosions" and sentenced to 20 years in prison in 1996. They were arrested while holding five pounds of explosives, similar those used to make the bombs, as well as a large cache of weapons.
http://www.haaretz.com/news/world/1.673988
Same guy who called the death of bin Laden a "tragedy."
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Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)Every OTHER candidate for the Labour Party leadership is a total reactionary who wants to move that party even further to the right.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)who actually supports terrorists and Holocaust deniers is a bridge too far.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)And there is no reason for anyone with a Bernie Sanders icon to be attacking the only candidate for the Labour leadership who isn't basically a Tory.
All of the others want to make the party indistinguishable from the Conservatives. All of the others want the party to be pro-austerity and to continue to keep ordinary Labour party members powerless to affect what that party stands for.
shira
(30,109 posts)I expected all of Israel's most vicious critics to support him.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)He favors a peaceful solution to the Israel/Palestine crisis that would leave both communities living in peace and security. And everyone else seeking the Labour Party leadership agrees with the Tories on all major issues.
None of the others would do anything as prime minister that a Conservative government wouldn't do.
shira
(30,109 posts)In fact, I'm not sure Corbyn has met a fascist leader he didn't adore.
He's a POS and no different than the most Rightwing Fascists.
That you don't see it that way is unreal.
===============
Seriously, how can an alleged progressive like Corbyn promote and support extreme rightwing fascists?
How is that fucking possible?
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)He doesn't even want Israelis dead(you're an American, not an Israeli). He doesn't want ANYBODY dead. He wants the killing to stop.
Corbyn wants the end of the oppression of the Palestinians-something you yourself don't want ended(because you can't defend the occupation and want anything good for the Palestinians in their future.
And everyone else in the Labour Party leadership campaign is essentially a Tory. None of them want anything changed from what Cameron is doing. They've all proved this by supporting the benefit cap and making it clear they won't repeal Thatcher's anti-worker laws or end the continued privatization of the British economy.
King_David
(14,851 posts)They don't need the division he would cause in the Labor party... He's the last person they should be voting for if they got any hope of ever gaining power again.
T_i_B
(14,745 posts)For one thing, Corbyn's 3 rivals for the Labour leadership don't look any more electable than he does. Albeit for very different reasons.
For another thing, the electability at all costs mentality of the Blairites has backfired in recent years. Leaving Labour shorn of purpose and positive message.
Also, whilst Labour lost ground to the Tories in England, they were wiped out in Scotland by the SNP campaigning from the left. Ultimately, many of Labour's biggest problems are things that go beyond left/right arguments.
shira
(30,109 posts)Those fascists want me & my family dead.
Full stop.
I ask again, how is it possible for an alleged progressive like Corbyn to promote & support the most hideously fascist leaders in the world?
And again - name a fascist tyrant Corbyn hasn't adored & admired.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)Jeremy also supported the Arab Spring, which was the only chance that ever existed to get rid of most of the tyrants of the Middle East(if it weren't for that, Mubarak, who was just as much a tyrant as the Saudis, Saddam, and the Assads would still be in power and then his sons would have succeeded him and ruled forever.)
You don't have to support Western military intervention in the Middle East to be against Middle Eastern tyrants. Such intervention has made nothing better at all in Iraq and Afghanistan, and wouldn't make anything better in Syria.
Oh, and the only reason he said Bin-Laden's death was a "tragedy" was that he wanted Bin-Laden in the dock for crimes against humanity. It actually didn't achieve much of anything kill the bastard...he was irrelevant by then.
shira
(30,109 posts)So you have something there to be proud of, right?
Thing is, Saddam Hussein funded the fascists of Hamas just as Assad funded the fascists of Hezbollah. And we know Corbyn is a big fan of both Hamas and Hezbollah. But I'll give you the victory for that one nonetheless. A pretty hollow one, considering...
Ken, it's not the anti-intervention or social policies that decent people have a problem with. People don't have that big a problem with Corbyn's issues against neo-liberalism.
The problem is that decent people are anti-fascist and Corbyn is demonstrably not. The 2 sides here in the debate aren't right vs. left, but rather Fascist Left and Fascist Right vs. the Centrists & Moderates.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)The simple fact is, military victory is permanently impossible for both the IDF AND Hamas. The only way out if negotiations.
shira
(30,109 posts)Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)T_i_B
(14,745 posts)Having seen him slag off Israel before, I can understand why pro-Israel DUer's are not too keen on him.
shira
(30,109 posts)Most people absolutely hate fascists, and for good reason.
Hence, the backlash...
T_i_B
(14,745 posts)...to take sides one way or the other in the Israel / Palestine conflict without dealing with some pretty awful people.
Corbyn's pro-Palestine views have nowt to do with why he's become the favourite to win the Labour leadership, but the issue will be a problem for him. As will his views on a number of other foreign policy matters. Most notably Ukraine.
snagglepuss
(12,704 posts)snip
In 2000, The Guardian reported ...how former cabinet minister Lord Gilmour was one of Alami’s sureties, and that in addition to Corbyn, support also came from MPs Harry Cohen and Tony Benn – “as well as Jewish and Arab activists.”
Others who supported the pair over the years included Paul Foot, and Gareth Peirce who, a 2004 interview noted, had “campaigned on behalf of Samar Alami and Jawad Botmeh, whom she believes were wrongly convicted.”
snip
Even at Westminster, Corbyn was hardly alone when it came to concern about the pair’s case. The five EDMs that he signed accumulatively attracted the support of a further 71 MPs (including Labour, Liberal Democrat, Plaid Cymru, and even a Conservative). The most popular of those EDMs secured 43 names alone.
In addition, the primary sponsor of all five was not Corbyn, but former Labour MP John Austin (Corbyn, along with others, was a co-sponsor of the most recent). You can find the relevant EDMs online in chronological order here, here, here, here, and here.
https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/blogs/politics/20767-the-latest-attack-on-jeremy-corbyn-is-only-half-the-story
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)It's disgusting that this website would include right-wing attacks on a progressive politician in another country.
grossproffit
(5,591 posts)[quote]The staff and contributors of MEMO include Daud Abdullah, Ibrahim Hewitt and Ben White. One of MEMO's honorary advisers is Tariq Ramadan, an Oxford University lecturer and grandson of Muslim Brotherhood founder Hassan al-Banna.[/quote]
[url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_East_Monitor#Staff[/url]
[quote] Other organisations at Crown House are Middle East Monitor (Memo), a news site which promotes a strongly pro-Brotherhood and pro-Hamas view of the region. Memo’s director, Daud Abdullah, is also a leader of the Brotherhood-linked British Muslim Initiative, set up and run by the Brotherhood activist Anas al-Tikriti and two senior figures in Hamas.
Memo’s “senior editor”, Ibrahim Hewitt, is chairman of Interpal, the Hamas and Brotherhood-linked charity.
Another organisation at Crown House is the Emirates Centre for Human Rights (ECHR), also set up by Anas al-Tikriti. Its website was registered to his wife, Malath Shakir. Its founding director, Abdus Salam, is the husband of Mr al-Tikriti’s sister.[/quote]
[url] http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/11398538/How-the-Muslim-Brotherhood-fits-into-a-network-of-extremism.html[/url]
snagglepuss
(12,704 posts)
JawJaw
(722 posts)No, he's not the guy who called Bin Laden's death a tragedy.
What he actually said in 2012 was
(there has been) no attempt whatsoever that I can see to arrest him and put him on trial, to go through that process.
This was an assassination attempt, and is yet another tragedy, upon a tragedy, upon a tragedy.
The World Trade Center was a tragedy, the attack on Afghanistan was a tragedy, the war in Iraq was a tragedy. Tens of thousands of people have died. Torture has come back on to the world stage, been canonised virtually into law by Guantanamo and Bagram.
Can't we learn some lessons from this? Are we just going to sink deeper and deeper? The next stage will be an attempted assassination on Gaddafi and so it will go on. This will just make the world more dangerous and worse and worse and worse.
Which, by any reasonable assessment means a totally different thing.
The right-wing press in the UK have tried to smear Corbyn with this "tragedy" bullshit. I expected better from a progressive forum.
If you're going to propagate lies, please don't put them in quotation marks.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Seems fairly accurate.
Maybe we could ask his 'friends' (his choice of words) in Hamas and Hezbollah for a clarification.
If it were 1 or 2 isolated incidents, one thing, but Corbyn has long history of canoodling with the creepy-crawlies of the extreme rightwing Islamists, Holocaust deniers and anti-Semites.
He's essentially George Galloway v.2.0
JawJaw
(722 posts)So, do you believe Corbyn thinks that
A. The use of state-sponsored assassination instead of capture and trial was a "tragedy"?
or
B. The death of that nice Mr Bin Laden was a "tragedy"?
I have a fairly accurate feeling that I know which option you're going to choose.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Bin Laden wasn't assassinated, he got shot.
John F. Kennedy was assassinated.
Patrice Lumumba was assassinated.
Martin Luther King Jr was assassinated.
Bin Laden got killed by the people upon whom he waged war.
JawJaw
(722 posts)Very conveniently "got shot".
Very conveniently "got dropped out of the helicopter", too, huh?
You have to admit; the whole thing's a bit fishy.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)JawJaw
(722 posts)Does seem strange that they haven't released any footage of the actual assass....um "shooting", doesn't it?
Did the SEALs forget to charge-up their bodycams, or what?
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)operation.
JawJaw
(722 posts)He's explained his use of the words "friends" in reference to Hamas and Hezbollah, already. Again you choose to selectively distil his comments down to a single word smear. How come?
Corbyn's response to the "friends" smear:
I'm saying that people I talk to, I use it in a collective way, saying our friends are prepared to talk.
Does it mean I agree with Hamas and what it does? No. Does it mean I agree with Hezbollah and what they do? No. What it means is that I think to bring about a peace process, you have to talk to people with whom you may profoundly disagree.
There is not going to be a peace process unless there is talks involving Israel, Hezbollah and Hamas and I think everyone knows that.
I spoke at a meeting about the Middle East crisis in parliament and there were people there from Hezbollah and I said I welcomed our friends from Hezbollah to have a discussion and a debate, and I said I wanted Hamas to be part of that debate. I have met Hamas in Lebanon and I've met Hezbollah in this country and Lebanon.
The wider question is Hamas and Hezbollah are part of a wider peace process. Even the former head of Mossad says that there has to be talks involving Hamas.
I've also had discussions with people from the right in Israeli politics who have the same view possibly that the state of Israel should extend from the river to the sea, as it is claimed people from the Palestinian side do.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)But there's a pattern with this guy, not only the aforementioned, but his embrace of Paul Eisen, Raed Salah, and other monstrosities.
Not to mention his direct comparison of the United States to ISIS.
Yeah, I'm sure Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi is shaking in his boots at the thought of dealing with Jeremy Corbyn.
JawJaw
(722 posts)Casually smearing the man whilst deliberately omitting his side of the story.
"There's a pattern with this guy"
Jesus - Are you a scriptwriter for O'Reilly?
In response to your other examples, Corbyn's already said that
I have no contact now whatsoever with Paul Eisen and Deir Yassin Remembered. I did attend a number of events concerning Deir Yassin Remembered some years ago, I think two or three of them.
Fifteen years ago [Eisen] was not a Holocaust denier - Had he been a Holocaust denier, I would have had absolutely nothing to do with him. I was moved by the plight of people who had lost their village in Deir Yassin
Holocaust denial is vile and wrong. The Holocaust was the most vile part of our history. The Jewish people killed by the Nazi Holocaust were the people who suffered the most in the 20th century.
Corbyn was also asked about having met Raed Salah, saying he had been unaware that the cleric had been convicted of racist incitement involving the medieval blood libel that Jewish people use the blood of children to make bread.
We had quite a long conversation and I made my views very clear. He did not at any stage utter any antisemitic remarks to me. Had he been convicted at that time then I’m surprised the Israeli government allowed him to travel.
The comparison of the US to ISIS probably makes a lot more sense if you lived in Fallujah during the massacre of November 2004.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)by radical Islamists and Holocaust deniers.
Paul Eisen was a holocaust denier when Corbyn canoodled with him in 2005 and attended his event in 2013.
01. Raed Saleh is a very well-known Jew-hating virulent bigot and has been for decades. Jeremy Corbyn was objecting to the UK excluding this foul bigot--WITHOUT EVEN READING HIS WIKIPEDIA PAGE? Sorry, that's nonsense.
Jeremy Corbyn described as an "honored citizen" the bigot who said:
Either Jeremy Corbyn is perfectly cool canoodling with extremist bigots, or he's a fucking moron.
He did not live in Fallujah, and note that he wasn't making the comparison in order to condemn the US military, but rather to deflect criticism from ISIS. "Well, yeah they've done some bad things, but so has the US."
Does this guy really see radical Islamism and ISIS as major threats to be addressed?
HIGHLY doubtful, given his pronounced and repeated willingness to give that crowd the benefit of the doubt.
grossproffit
(5,591 posts)I'm marking this date down. It's a special day, for me, at least. 
shira
(30,109 posts)Last edited Wed Sep 2, 2015, 06:08 PM - Edit history (1)
It's a damned shame I feel I have to state that on a Liberal Democratic board.