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Jefferson23

(30,099 posts)
Sat Nov 28, 2015, 11:11 AM Nov 2015

B’Tselem to PM: Your silence permits street executions

Published:
25 Nov 2015

B’Tselem sent a letter to Israeli PM Benjamin Netanyahu, demanding a cessation of the use of lethal force against people who either harmed, tried to harm, or were suspected of trying to harm others, once they no longer posed any danger. The letter demanded an end to the horrific string of summary street executions.

In the letter, B’Tselem Executive Director, Hagai El-Ad, wrote:

“Your government permits – and encourages – the transformation of police officers, and even of armed civilians, into judges and executioners. The disparity between words and actions is a stark one. It has been claimed that there has been no change in open-fire regulations and that security forces are employing reasonable force not exceeding that required to thwart perpetrators. It is ostensibly taken for granted that it is unlawful to shoot an injured person who poses no danger. Yet in practice, full support for the documented instances of unlawful killing reflects a completely different reality and grants it legitimacy. During your term of office, a new pseudo-normative reality has effectively emerged, in which a “shoot to kill” approach must always be adopted, no matter the circumstances, even when the suspect no longer poses any danger whatsoever. This reality is a direct consequence of inflammatory statements by senior members of your government, who draw support from your silence. The upshot is that there can only be one outcome in cases that combine an individual with Arab appearance and a knife: execution on the street. […]

The day before yesterday a police officer in Jerusalem shot N.'A., a 16-year-old girl from Qalandiya as she lay injured and immobile on the ground. Her 14-year-old cousin, Hadil, was also shot in the same incident even after she had already been hit by gunfire and had fallen to the ground. Hadil was killed. The day before, soldiers shot dead Ashraqat Qatnani, a 16-year-old girl from Nablus, after she had already been injured when hit by a car. In October, Basel Sidr and Fadi ‘Alun were shot dead in Jerusalem; the gunfire did not stop even after they had already been hit and injured. In each of these five cases, even though the individuals involved had already been “neutralized,” they were shot at again. Of the five, four were killed and one seriously injured. Whether or not these individuals had been attempting to perpetrate attacks is a matter that cannot obscure the harsh reality at hand: these instances constitute public, summary street executions, without law or trial. And there is reason for concern that there are other such cases as well. […]

The death penalty for murder was abolished in Israeli criminal law in 1954, over 60 years ago. And never was a death sentence a possible penalty for attempted murder or grievous assault. Regardless, even if the death penalty were on the books in Israeli law, the decision to impose it would rest with the courts. […] Remaining silent when security forces operate outside the boundaries of the law cannot absolve one of responsibility. You will not be able to claim that your ears did not hear of this or that your mouth did not command it. Your protracted silence in the face of such events, while at the same time speaking in general commendation of the work of the security forces, make it all too clear what policy you advocate and support. Your silence in the face of Minister of Public Security Gilad Erdan’s saying that “every terrorist should know that he will not survive the attack he is about to perpetrate” is tantamount to consent to this unlawful policy. Your silence following the implementation of this policy constitutes retroactive support. […]

The wave of attacks against Israelis is appalling. Security forces must protect the public. They must use the force necessary under the circumstances to achieve this goal. However, police officers and soldiers must not act as judges and executioners. The person who actually pulls the trigger bears responsibility for his or her actions, but the prevailing “spirit” is determined by the commander. As prime minister, you bear ultimate responsibility.”


http://www.btselem.org/press_releases/20151115_letter_to_pm_on_extrajudicial_killings

20 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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B’Tselem to PM: Your silence permits street executions (Original Post) Jefferson23 Nov 2015 OP
Why does an Israeli organization choose English to communicate with Israel's PM? 6chars Nov 2015 #1
The enablers of the occupation, the US. Jefferson23 Nov 2015 #2
The letter itself is wanting 6chars Nov 2015 #3
Yeah yeah yeah ...... Israeli Nov 2015 #5
I remember that one. 6chars Nov 2015 #6
No, they understand the law and the threat..thus the letter. Israeli policies have deligitimized Jefferson23 Nov 2015 #7
Arm chair quarterbacks. 6chars Nov 2015 #8
I have no problem with a crazy murderer young dude about to stab an elderly person King_David Nov 2015 #9
No, they understand the law, and those who do not adhere to laws are as lawless as those Jefferson23 Nov 2015 #11
Security forces are keeping civilians safe. 6chars Nov 2015 #12
Lawless Israeli policies, some are good with that..just not human rights groups. Jefferson23 Nov 2015 #13
Lawful 6chars Nov 2015 #15
No they don't, that would be you..they substantiate their work, the laws are ignored Jefferson23 Nov 2015 #16
* sigh *..... Israeli Nov 2015 #4
Never trust fraudulent HR groups who advocate the destruction of the Jewish state.... shira Nov 2015 #17
This message was self-deleted by its author 6chars Nov 2015 #18
And they're virtually against EVERY defensive measure Israel takes against terror. shira Nov 2015 #20
B'tselem is almost entirely funded by foreign donations. shira Nov 2015 #19
In an age of suicide bombers I can understand why it happens. nt hack89 Nov 2015 #10
WATCH: Rabbi Ascherman on Israeli TV on punitive home demolitions Jefferson23 Nov 2015 #14

6chars

(3,967 posts)
1. Why does an Israeli organization choose English to communicate with Israel's PM?
Sat Nov 28, 2015, 11:18 AM
Nov 2015

Who is the real audience for this "letter"?

6chars

(3,967 posts)
3. The letter itself is wanting
Sat Nov 28, 2015, 11:47 AM
Nov 2015

Basically, it admits that Israeli law - as in any civilized country - does not allow extrajudicial executions, but does allow for the fact that security forces on the ground must make some judgments about the danger of a situation. The unfortunate fact is, if you are a terrorist attacking innocent people with a weapon, you are obviously taking a risk that the security forces will see you as a threat even after you no longer see yourself as a threat. Given that you (not you Jefferson, just the hypothetical person in my prose) choose to be a person who is willing to die in order to kill innocents, security forces will have to take that into account in determining at what point you are no longer a threat. The fact that in the cases where the security forces deemed the threat to be ended they have arrested the terrorist assailants when they could have certainly killed them speaks volumes.

B'stelem just wants to say "Israel engages in extra-judicial executions" because they like to say things like that. It sounds a lot more persuasive in their effort to delegitimize Israel than saying "Security forces use their judgment to ensure that terrorist assailants cannot do more harm."

Jefferson23

(30,099 posts)
7. No, they understand the law and the threat..thus the letter. Israeli policies have deligitimized
Sat Nov 28, 2015, 12:08 PM
Nov 2015

Israel..B'tselem just points it out.

6chars

(3,967 posts)
8. Arm chair quarterbacks.
Sat Nov 28, 2015, 12:27 PM
Nov 2015

Making real time judgments about the momentary intentions and capabilities of crazed murderers is a tricky business. The downside of underestimating the threat is that these terrorist will continue in their killing spree. Security forces are right to ensure that they are fully subdued. I am sure that all of the people saying the terrorists should be given the benefit of the doubt are truly weeping for Israel.

King_David

(14,851 posts)
9. I have no problem with a crazy murderer young dude about to stab an elderly person
Sat Nov 28, 2015, 01:34 PM
Nov 2015

Being shot dead on the spot.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3330254/Two-teenage-Palestinian-girls-shot-stabbing-Jewish-man-SCISSORS-Jerusalem-market.html

Two teenage Palestinian girls shot after stabbing elderly man with SCISSORS in a Jerusalem market

Jefferson23

(30,099 posts)
11. No, they understand the law, and those who do not adhere to laws are as lawless as those
Sat Nov 28, 2015, 05:28 PM
Nov 2015

they rail against. It's not that complicated.

6chars

(3,967 posts)
12. Security forces are keeping civilians safe.
Sat Nov 28, 2015, 05:32 PM
Nov 2015

Terrorists are not.

It's not that complicated.

Although I can understand why some folks are primarily concerned that the streets are safe for terrorists.

Jefferson23

(30,099 posts)
13. Lawless Israeli policies, some are good with that..just not human rights groups.
Sat Nov 28, 2015, 05:34 PM
Nov 2015

There's not much you do understand.

6chars

(3,967 posts)
15. Lawful
Sat Nov 28, 2015, 05:38 PM
Nov 2015

B'tselem makes unsubstantiated accusations. In order to make Israel be more cautious with terrorists. In order to allow terrorists to kill more people. In order to pressure Israel to ... surrender? Not sure what the last piece they have in mind is.

Edited - I know what the last pieces is. For B'tselem to get foreign government money and to feel morally superior.

Jefferson23

(30,099 posts)
16. No they don't, that would be you..they substantiate their work, the laws are ignored
Sat Nov 28, 2015, 05:43 PM
Nov 2015

for the most part by the Israeli government.

 

shira

(30,109 posts)
17. Never trust fraudulent HR groups who advocate the destruction of the Jewish state....
Sat Nov 28, 2015, 05:48 PM
Nov 2015

No more than trusting anyone advocating the destruction of the French, Italian, or German state.

Worse, these con artists run interference for genocidal terror groups like Hamas and Hezbollah.


Response to shira (Reply #17)

 

shira

(30,109 posts)
20. And they're virtually against EVERY defensive measure Israel takes against terror.
Sat Nov 28, 2015, 05:56 PM
Nov 2015

Which kinda gives the game away....

Jefferson23

(30,099 posts)
14. WATCH: Rabbi Ascherman on Israeli TV on punitive home demolitions
Sat Nov 28, 2015, 05:37 PM
Nov 2015
This week Rabbi Ascherman participated in a panel on Channel 2′s morning program on punitive demolitions of the homes of the families of terrorists. It starts at minute 30:06, and is in Hebrew.

Rabbi Ascherman explains in the interview that unlike administrative home demolitions, he would grit his teeth and support this form of collective punishment if he thought it would save human life and that there wasn’t a less harmful way of achieving the same goal. However, he is not convinced that there is any new evidence contradicting the 2005 army study that that found that these demolitions actually increase terror because of the hate and anger they engender. Rather, he suspects that politicians feel that they need to prove that they are doing something.

http://rhr.org.il/eng/2015/11/watch-rabbi-ascherman-on-israeli-tv-on-punitive-home-demolitions/
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