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Little Tich

(6,171 posts)
Fri May 27, 2016, 11:06 PM May 2016

In huge blow to Israel, Netherlands declares BDS ‘free speech’

Source: Jerusalem Post, 05/26/2016

Declaration comes as Israel pushes Europe to outlaw the movement * Jerusalem: Don’t justify hatred

In a huge blow to Israel, Dutch Foreign Minister Bert Koenders announced Thursday that calls to boycott the Jewish state fall within the limits of free speech, undermining intensive Israeli diplomatic efforts to sway European capitals to outlaw the Boycott, Sanctions and Divestment Movement.

“Statements or meetings concerning BDS are protected by freedom of expression and freedom of assembly, as enshrined in the Dutch Constitution and the European Convention on Human Rights,” Koenders said Thursday during a debate on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict at the Dutch parliament’s Foreign Affairs Committee in The Hague.

He added that the Dutch government has explained to Israel that it opposes any boycott against it, but that BDS endorsement is a free speech issue. Sweden recently made a similar declaration.

His words came just two day after the State Comptroller charged Israel was losing the battle against BDS and delegitimization because of government disorganization and a lack of resources. Dutch Ambassador to Israel Gilles Beschoor Plug told The Jerusalem Post that Thursday’s decision did not reflect a change in government policy. “Supporting BDS by people in Holland is not illegal and therefore it falls within the limits of freedom,” the ambassador said.

Read more: http://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/Politics-And-Diplomacy/In-huge-blow-to-Israel-Netherlands-declares-BDS-free-speech-455162

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King_David

(14,851 posts)
1. That this happened in Sweden is no surprise
Fri May 27, 2016, 11:21 PM
May 2016

But have you been to Amsterdam recently?

Amsterdam used to be a bastion of Gay freedom- I was scared , Gay bashing are even more prevalent than Jew bashing in France .

That's Europe for you.... Gays and Jews best flee to places they protected- like Israel.....

aranthus

(3,385 posts)
2. Hate speech like BDS is still protected.
Fri May 27, 2016, 11:38 PM
May 2016

It's why they haven't outlawed the "N" word. It dpean't make BDS legitimate; just that hatefulness protected.

 

SoCalMusicLover

(3,194 posts)
3. What About Here In The U.S.?
Sat May 28, 2016, 02:25 AM
May 2016

Criticizing is one thing, but wouldn't we have the same Free Speech protection? If so, I guess our policies and laws are as screwed up as theirs. Or perhaps it has something to do with the 1st Amendment.

Little Tich

(6,171 posts)
4. If anything, the EU has stronger laws against hate speech than the US.
Sat May 28, 2016, 05:49 AM
May 2016

In the US, hate speech is permissible unless it will lead to imminent hate violence as it's protected by the First Amendment. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_speech#United_States)

That's why people like Dershowitz and Geller can say anything they want in the US, but have a problem saying the same things in Europe without being prosecuted. As long as BDS isn't anti-Semitic, but rather a protest against perceived human rights violations by Israel, it can't be declared illegal.

King_David

(14,851 posts)
5. Dershowitz?
Sat May 28, 2016, 05:14 PM
May 2016

Can you quote some hate speech of his please?

Or did you mean if someone is a proud Jew and defends the Jewish state they are guilty of hate - a lot of people do actually believe that.... Many more hate Dershowitz for the exact same reason.... Bernie too ( because he's Jewish)

Response to King_David (Reply #5)

King_David

(14,851 posts)
8. Dershowitz's sin here on DU among those that hate him , is that he's Jewish and a Democrat and a
Sat May 28, 2016, 07:43 PM
May 2016

Defender of Jews.

Little Tich

(6,171 posts)
9. I see Dershowitz as a Republican who can't produce a single non-fallacious argument.
Sat May 28, 2016, 11:50 PM
May 2016

Oh, and a pervert too.

When it comes to Dershowitz, there are two kinds of people; those who who believe everything Dershowitz says and those who believe nothing he says. I'm one of the latter, and I believe that Dershowitz actually slides into hate-speech territory when he defends Israel and what he believes should be free speech by attacking Islam, Muslims, Palestinians and just about anyone who doesn't agree with him. I hope the examples below are at enough to at least illustrate why someone would suspect him of promoting hate-speech:


Dershowitz: Radical Islam Is Only Anti-Semitism 'That Matters Now'
Source: Newsmax, Feb 2015

President Barack Obama must admit that radical Islam is the only source of anti-Semitism that really matters right now, Harvard law professor Alan Dershowitz said Tuesday on "America’s Forum."

Read more: http://www.newsmax.com/Newsmax-Tv/islam-extremism-anti-semitism-violence/2015/02/17/id/625195/


Dershowitz calling Norway the most anti-Semitic country in Europe:
Alan M. Dershowitz: Norway Needs a Single Standard Against Terrorism
Source: Scholars for Peace in the Middle East, July 29, 2011, by Alan Dershowitz
(snip)
I was not surprised to hear such ahistorical bigotry from a Norwegian Ambassador. Norway is the most anti-Semitic and anti-Israel country in Europe today. I know, because I experienced both personally during a recent visit and tour of universities. No university would invite me to lecture, unless I promised not to discuss Israel. Norway forbids Jewish ritual slaughter, but not Islamic ritual slaughter.

Read more: http://spme.org/spme-research/analysis/alan-m-dershowitz-norway-needs-a-single-standard-against-terrorism/10118/


Dershowitz defending Pamela Geller:
Dershowitz Clashes with CNN Guest After Saying Only Radical Muslims ‘Threaten’ Speech Mediaite

Source: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0xkZCpPCIvHsSXVdZ0JF2A


Are Radical Imams Going to Redefine Freedom of Speech?
Source: Gatestone Institute, September 19, 2012, by Alan Dershowitz
Now there are threats of violence directed against France for the publication of a cartoon depicting the prophet Mohammad in violation of Islamic law. This is simply the most recent manifestation of a worldwide effort to censor freedom of expression and make it conform to the most radical interpretation of Islamic tradition. The bounty on the head of Salman Rushdie was recently increased and this distinguished author remains in peril. Theo Van Gogh was murdered for violating Islamic Law. And numerous people have been killed as the result of cartoons being published in Denmark and a video shown on YouTube.

Read more: http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/3355/radical-imams-freedom-of-speech



The chilling effect of 'lawfare' litigation
Source: The Guardian, 10 February 2010, by Alan Dershowitz and Elizabeth Samson
Radical Islamic groups in the US are intimidating the media with the cost of defending defamation suits in order to stifle criticism

(snip)
But even as Britain attempts to prevent frivolous libel suits, the battle continues in the US. American courts are being utilised by radical Islamic groups to stifle writers through "lawfare" – the use of law as a weapon of warfare – a tactic that has had a "chilling effect" on free speech. In contrast to the British laws, American libel law favours defendants. However, plaintiffs in the US have learned to sue their critics for defamation, not with the intent to win the case, but with the hope of imposing an unaffordably high cost on criticism of their actions.

Read more: http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/libertycentral/2010/feb/09/libel-reform-radical-islamic-groups


Dershowitz lends his name to promote anti-Palestinian revisionism:
Icon of Evil
Source: Wikipedia
Icon of Evil: Hitler's Mufti and the Rise of Radical Islam is a 2008 book by David G. Dalin and John F. Rothmann initially published by Random House; the 2009 version of the book by Transaction Publishers has an introduction by Alan Dershowitz. It is a biography of Haj Amin al-Husseini (1895–1974), who was the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem during the British Mandate period. Some reviewers were critical of its "overtly propagandistic" style, citing numerous factual errors and criticizing its thesis that a direct line can be drawn from the Mufti to modern-day Islamic leaders as unconvincing and lacking evidence. Other reviewers praised the book, one describing it as "the first serious biography of the mufti to appear in 14 years".

Read more: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Icon_of_Evil


Dershowitz promoting collective punishment:
New response to Palestinian terrorism
Source: Free Republic, 3/11/2002 (Original article in Jerusalem Post)
(snip)
Following the end of the moratorium, Israel would institute the following new policy if Palestinian terrorism were to resume. It will announce precisely what it will do in response to the next act of terrorism. For example, it could announce the first act of terrorism following the moratorium will result in the destruction of a small village which has been used as a base for terrorist operations. The residents would be given 24 hours to leave, and then troops will come in and bulldoze all of the buildings.

The response will be automatic. The order will have been given in advance of the terrorist attacks and there will be no discretion. The point is to make the automatic destruction of the village the fault of the Palestinian terrorists who had advance warnings of the specific consequences of their action. The soldiers would simply be acting as the means for carrying out a previously announced policy of retaliation against a designated target.

Read more: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/644063/posts

Note: Yes, it's a link to Freeperland, but I couldn't find the text of the original Jerusalem Post article anywhere else...

aranthus

(3,385 posts)
7. You're wrong BDS is protected even though it is antisemitic.
Sat May 28, 2016, 06:45 PM
May 2016

The Netherlands didn't say it wan't hate speech; only that it was protected speech.

Little Tich

(6,171 posts)
10. Actually, anti-Semitic speech is prohibited in the Netherlands:
Sat May 28, 2016, 11:57 PM
May 2016
Hate speech
Source: Wikipedia
(snip)
Netherlands
The Dutch penal code prohibits both insulting a group (article 137c) and inciting hatred, discrimination or violence (article 137d). The definition of the offences as outlined in the penal code is as follows:

Article 137c: He who publicly, orally, in writing or graphically, intentionally expresses himself insultingly regarding a group of people because of their race, their religion or their life philosophy, their heterosexual or homosexual orientation or their physical, psychological or mental disability, shall be punished by imprisonment of no more than a year or a monetary penalty of the third category.

Article 137d: He who publicly, orally, in writing or graphically, incites hatred against, discrimination of or violent action against person or belongings of people because of their race, their religion or their life philosophy, their gender, their heterosexual or homosexual orientation or their physical, psychological or mental disability, shall be punished by imprisonment of no more than a year or a monetary penalty of the third category.

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_speech#Netherlands

King_David

(14,851 posts)
12. Not for long - Gay bashing has become a huge problem in the Netherlands
Sun May 29, 2016, 08:31 AM
May 2016

Just recently.

Amsterdam is the Gay-bashing Capital of Europe

https://gayspeak.com/showthread.php?t=13912


So nothing here in the OP is surprising- at all.

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