'Deadliest day': children killed in Gaza air raids

[bemildred]

November 19, 2012 - 7:16AM

Ruth Pollard in Gaza City

http://www.smh.com.au/world/deadliest-day-children-killed-in-gaza-air-raids-20121119-29ks4.html

---

Gaza toll rises under air campaign

Early on Sunday, Israeli aircraft hit two media centres in Gaza City, wounding at least eight journalists, one of whom lost a leg, health ministry spokesman Ashraf al-Qudra told AFP.

---

On Sunday, at least 125 rockets hit Israel, while scores more were intercepted in mid-flight by the Iron Dome defence system, the army said.

Throughout the day, two were fired at Tel Aviv, triggering air raid sirens in the commercial metropolis for the fourth day. Iron Dome intercepted both, police said.

---

Since the start of its Operation Pillar of Defence, launched after the killing of Hamas military chief Ahmed Jaabari in an air strike, the Israeli army says it has struck more than 1,100 targets in Gaza as militants have fired more than 800 rockets over the border.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/in-depth/middle-east-in-turmoil/well-hit-you-harder-israel-tells-hamas/story-fn7ycml4-1226519281924

[azurnoir]

1. at this point in time

Israeli forces continued to bombard the Gaza Strip on Sunday evening after the bloodiest day in Gaza since the last war, Operation Cast Lead.

Israel bombed the Tel al-Hawa neighborhood of Gaza City, killing two men, and earlier hit the al-Safina building in the city killing one man on Sunday evening, bringing the day's death toll to 27.

..........................................

Some 75 Palestinians have been killed since Israel launched Operation Pillar of Cloud on Wednesday, after assassinating Hamas military commander Ahmad al-Jaabari.

http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=539239

the toll is likely to go up it is 11:22 pm in Gaza at this writting and it seems the heaviest bombardment takes place at night

[bemildred]

2. Beggars description, it does.

I can't think of anything that I am inclined to say, any comments or analogies, that would not offend somebody or another, probably everybody, now that I think about it.

Well, I'll risk one: I'm having echoes of the 2nd Lebanon War here, a bit, in the sense of motives, strategy, dynamics.

[azurnoir]

6. True that

longer range rockets on Hamas part

and there is a banner at the top of Ma'ans homepage that reads 3 Palestinians killed in airstrikes on Rafah


http://www.maannews.net/eng/Default.aspx

[bemildred]

7. That's part of it.

The "restore deterrence" vs "demonstrate a credible counter-threat" goals, and also the "decisive victory" vs "not defeated" asymmetry, and all those politicians who have painted themselves into a corner again. Barak was neck deep in that one too, maybe this will end his career.

But anyway, I expect Hamas strategy derives from that war, they seem ready to keep shooting rockets for a while yet, I sort of wonder without wanting to find out if there are other surprises laying around, and I really do hope they don't invade Gaza.

[azurnoir]

22. well it's up to 115 now

Family killed in new Israeli airstrike

Israeli airstrikes on the northern Gaza Strip killed a family of four on Monday, as Israel continued to bombard the coastal enclave for a sixth day, Ma'an's reporter said.

Foad Hijazi, Amna Hijazi and their two children Suhaib and Muhammad were killed when their home in Beit Lahiya was hit by an airstrike.

.........................................

Israeli attacks on Gaza have killed 115 people and injured over 900 since "Operation Pillar of Cloud" began on Wednesday.

http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=539830

[bemildred]

28. Boy, can I call them or what?

"Barak was neck deep in that one too, maybe this will end his career. "

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014316994

[azurnoir]

29. yes you can at that

so this leaves Likud Beiteinu with a clear playing field as if they didn't have one anyway

[bemildred]

30. A clear playing field and no fig leaf to cover their ass on the left.

This could get very interesting. I don't believe for a minute that Bibi "acceded" to Obama's "request" willingly.
Elections have consequences.

[oberliner]

4. Dradels? The tribe?

What a disgusting post.

[subsuelo]

8. In a thread about dead children, and that is what you find disgusting?

[oberliner]

9. Absolutely

No one on DU killed any children as far as I know.

If someone made a post saying that they were pleased that children were killed then I would find that disgusting - but no one has to my knowledge. If they did I would hope/think it would be quickly hidden and the poster removed.

Posts like this, however, are made by DUers, and do stand, apparently without much objection.

I find it really disgusting.

[subsuelo]

10. OK

For me, children being killed (by either side in this conflict) is by far the most disgusting, abhorrent thing.

[holdencaufield]

11. Antisemitism ...

... has caused a lot more dead children than what is currently happening in Gaza.

And don't kid yourself -- he believes he's being coy, but everyone knows what he's saying.

[subsuelo]

12. 1 killed child is infinitely worse than any ignorant belief system n/t

[holdencaufield]

13. This particular "ignorant belief system"

led directly to the deaths of a few MILLION children. Your trivialization, and tacit acceptance, of it says a lot.

[subsuelo]

15. a belief is not an act

The action of killing is always infinitely worse than any belief that led to it.

I haven't trivialized anything.

[intaglio]

16. Agreed, as long as you remember that Palestinians

speak one of the languages legendarily derived from Shem as well and that if it carries on then the death rate will rapidly escalate

[holdencaufield]

17. Too late ...

... the term antisemitism has already been assigned. It was created specifically by European racists to describe the hatred of Jews -- not other ethnicities from the Middle East. That has been the accepted definition for 150 years and it is disingenuous to pretend otherwise.

The agreed upon term for anti-Islamic hatred seems to be "Islamaphobia". So, if you see me, or anyone else, defending the persecution of Muslims as a group or inferring Muslims are in any way less scrupulous, have undue political influence, or have divided loyalties to the US, they you are free to call out that example of Islamophobia. But, it isn't antisemitism.

True, it may not be semantically accurate but, Remember, not all words are semantically-accurate. Remind yourself of that the next time you watch a "sunset" if you have don't realize the sun isn't ACTUALLY setting.

[intaglio]

21. Actually it has a variety of meanings

and it amuses me to see the defenders of an indefensible Zionist government deny the shared ancestry, linguistic and genetic, that they have with the Palestinians. Like many others I wish to return the actual sense of the word as is contained within its structure and history.

It is also of note that the most hateful antisemites of recent history, the Nazis, saw no difference between the Jews and the inhabitants of Palestine and regarded both as untermensch - along with many other cultures too.

[Mosby]

24. no one is denying semitic history

That's just some stupid strawman argument you threw up.

Considering that hitler himself met with the leader of the Palestinian arabs and promised him that together they would finish off the Jews tends to make me think that the nazi scum thought differently about Jews and Arabs.

[intaglio]

25. The Nazis also set Slavs against Slavs

homosexuals (in the SS) against homosexuals and Jew against Jew (the Capos in the concentration camps). Your point is?

Hitler also wanted some Jews shipped to Palestine, as long as they left their wealth behind. Hitler and his sickening crew were always seeking to unbalance their enemies and would use any method to do so.

[Shaktimaan]

32. His point?

It is also of note that the most hateful antisemites of recent history, the Nazis, saw no difference between the Jews and the inhabitants of Palestine

I'd imagine his point is simply that your above statement is untrue. Nor do your examples support it like you seem to think they do.

The reality is that the Nazis industrialized genocide primarily as a means of destroying the Jewish people in its entirety. Jews were put into camps and eventually killed. The Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, the Palestinian leader at the time, was an ally of Hitler's who met, strategized and worked with him towards their common goal of Jewish annihilation. The Palestinians were not in the camps with the Jews. They were having tea with the furhur.

Hitler also wanted some Jews shipped to Palestine, as long as they left their wealth behind.

No, Hitler had every opportunity to allow Jews to leave instead of killing them and his policy decision there was clear. Hitler wanted the Jews killed, both in Palestine and in Europe and he worked in both regions to that effect.

Like many others I wish to return the actual sense of the word as is contained within its structure and history.

The term simply never meant what you are implying. What could the reason for your wanting to include Arabs in this term possibly be, anyway? The only time I see this absurd argument being made is in the service of minimizing instances of real anti-semitism by implying that since Arabs are semitic they can not be perpetrating it. As laws against anti-semitism are finally being written into UN bylaws we are seeing these efforts at twisting the meaning as to make the new laws effectively toothless at protecting its intended recipients. In some cases we have even seen the perversion of using these new rules to prosecute Jews when their supposed victims of anti-semitism are Arabs.

[intaglio]

33. The restriction on the Jews entering Palestine came from the Mandate Authorities

The British and the French.

[Shaktimaan]

34. That's true, in a matter of speaking.

And it was only the British, the French had nothing to do with it. However, while it WAS the British who published the white paper of 1939 which restricted the immigration of and land sales to Jews, it was entirely at the demand of the Arab population, who were only persuaded to end their violent 3 year old revolt when promised this.

So yeah, the British enforced the restriction on Jewish immigration, but only because they were strong-armed into doing so by the Palestinians.

Regardless, do you have a point that you're leading up to here, or was this just included as a neat bit of trivia?

[oberliner]

14. Children being killed is absolutely horrible

If anyone says differently, and I read the post, they will receive my disapprobation.

Other nasty comments, though, will also be commented on when and if I come across them.

[Scootaloo]

18. I look forward to seeing your commentary

...being directed at the horrible shit that often falls from the mouths of the "pro-Israel" brigade.

You know. Like arguments that Palestinians are "getting what they desire," or that Hamas being in power makes the deaths of these kids okay, or that Palestinians are all nazis, you know, the regular stuff.

Or maybe you could talk about ah, certain posters' love affair with using right-wing islamophobic hate sites as primary sources?

I haven't seen it yet, but since you're such a fair-minded, even-handed, compassionate individual, I'm sure it must be because you just haven't read it... even in the threads you've posted on. (your ophthalmologist might need to reconsider your current prescription?)

[oberliner]

19. You must be new

Show me a post that says "Palestinians are all nazis" - just one.

Or maybe you are seeing things that aren't there?

[Scootaloo]

26. Or maybe you just regularly defend the indefensible?

Just one?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014309265#post45
Wellspring, insisting that Palestinians equate nazis and that's why they deserve to be blown up.You posted in that thread, I guess you saw nothing amiss!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021837652#post11
Pasaran, insisting that Palestinian children deserve to die because he claims their parents are all shooting missiles at Israel. You might have missed this one, since I don't see you in there justifying him.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/113421161#post31
Mosby, making almost the same argument. You appear to only be interested in mocking another poster who claims to have had rough interaction with the Israeli right.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014309650#post31
NutmegYankee, insisting the Palestinians are "getting what they desire." Maybe you missed this one, too.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1134&pid=21000
Shira, utilizing a right-wing islamophobe blog to make her OP. You're present on the thread, but only to claim there is nothing resembling Israeli oppression in Gaza.

These are just some off the top of my head, Oberliner. I'm sure you're going to find some ridiculous justification for why these are all perfectly okay, or not worth your input or opposition. But the plain fact is, you don't deem this shit "nasty" enough to warrant your disapprobation. Since the only difference between the posts you levy your condemnation on, and the ones that pass under your radar is that the first involves Israelis and the second involves Arabs...

[Shaktimaan]

31. None of those examples actually support your accusations about them.

Wellspring, insisting that Palestinians equate nazis and that's why they deserve to be blown up.

No, that was wellspring drawing comparisons between Nazis and Palestinians to make his point, that no one ever questions the Allies use of violence against the Nazis the way they do with Israel, that Israel is held to an unfair standard. NOT that all Palestinians are the equivalent of Nazis who deserve to be blown up, a phrase that was insinuated nowhere in his post.

Pasaran, insisting that Palestinian children deserve to die because he claims their parents are all shooting missiles at Israel.

Again nope. This is Pasaran suggesting that the missiles shot at Israel are the CAUSE of the deaths of Gaza's children. Nowhere does he suggest that they deserve death.

Mosby, making almost the same argument.

Hardly. Mosby made an observation that the current situation can be traced back to decisions made by the Palestinians themselves. Decisions that he surmises they might now regret. Again, this is articulating causes, not making value judgements.

Shira, utilizing a right-wing islamophobe blog to make her OP.

Nothing in her post was anti-Arab, there's nothing wrong with it. No one said anything like "that Hamas being in power makes the deaths of these kids okay, or that Palestinians are all nazis" regardless of your repeated assertions. You simply have not proven your more outlandish accusations to have any validity.

[Bluenorthwest]

20. Why no cites to prove the hyperbolic

characterizations of DU posts you foist here? You say it is 'the regular stuff' but I don't see that. You don't show any evidence of your pronouncements at all. If such things are 'the regular' you should be able to show them with ease and in great numbers. But ya don't.
Is baseless accusation part of the value system you support? I find it morally absent and ethically craven to do that sort of thing. Just so you know. When a person types up a bunch of crap and then claims others said it while refusing proof, I figure that person is full of it on all levels. No reason to assume otherwise.

[Scootaloo]

27. Then you might be interested in examining these threads:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/113422334
Archae, claiming that people are running around "defending" Hamas. For evidence, he presents fucking nothing.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/113421813
Shira, flying off half-cocked with "There must be some way to spin this one into "PURE EVIL. THIS IS PROOF THEY LEARNED WELL FROM THEIR MASTERS IN THE CAMPS 70 YEARS AGO!"

You've got eyeballs, chief. Try using 'em!

[Shaktimaan]

35. Why? They are accurate.

Archae, claiming that people are running around "defending" Hamas. For evidence, he presents fucking nothing.

Carter defends Hamas all the time.

Former President Jimmy Carter will urge the Obama administration to remove Hamas from the terrorist list, FOX News has learned.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/06/16/carter-obama-remove-hamas-terror-list/#ixzz2DUk2J6Yl

There is bipartisan condemnation of Carter's meeting, but Carter has a long history of support for Hamas. This is what Carter said on Nov. 28, 2006, on pbs: "Since August of 2004 [Hamas] has not committed a single act of terrorism that cost an Israeli life, not a single one."

Carter spoke out on behalf of Hamas and against the secular party Fatah last year at the very time that Hamas thugs were throwing Fatah members to their death from Gaza rooftops.

http://www.usnews.com/opinion/mzuckerman/articles/2008/04/18/the-damage-of-jimmy-carter

Here's a DU poster defending terrorism from Hamas:

Tell me then, what should the Palestinians do here? Their land is being stolen by these people, who are visiting violence upon the Palestinians around them with, to use the word, disturbing regularity. The Palestinians can't count on the Israeli government to handle this problem ,even though the culprits are Israelis. The Palestinians can't rely on their own government to do anything about it, since the Palestinian Authority is too busy bowing and scraping for the Israeli government. And even if the Palestinaisn could get close enough to a settlement without getting gunned down in order to ask the colonists to leave, those people would likely tell the Palestinians to fuck off.

So what are the options here, Oberliner? It seems to me that the Palestinians can either fight, or they can retreat. And my own people's experience tells me that retreat just means you'll be retreating next week when they build next to you again, and the week after that, and the week after that... Until you have nowhere else to go.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=124x331744

Here's another legitimizing terrorism and war crimes:

If Israeli troops were here and set up Martial Law, patrolled our streets all armored up carrying automatic weapons with back up from armored vehicles and aircraft, breaking down our doors with impunity, stopping anyone at will, stealing our land and bull dozing our homes. I'd be angry enough to start killing them too. Rockets landing in their back yards would be the least of their problems!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/113421813

Shira, flying off half-cocked with "There must be some way to spin this one into "PURE EVIL. THIS IS PROOF THEY LEARNED WELL FROM THEIR MASTERS IN THE CAMPS 70 YEARS AGO!"

Again, people say it all the time...

They learned well from their tormenters. And it can't be called a Holocaust, because that is something done TO Jews, not BY Jews.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/11348649

Looks like Israel learned the wrong lessons from the Holocaust, and have decided to adopt the same tactics the Germans used on Occupied Europe.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x2409402

I guess you could say that the Israelis learned their lessons well from the Nazis.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=124x3563

------

Consider your assertions de-bunked.

[TheMadMonk]

5. Why insist on telling us how great God is, and works...

...done in his name are, when history and the Bible both tell us otherwise, over and over and over again.

The God who is sweetness and light doesn't exist outside of wishful thinking, in the real world God is a convenient excuse for one person to attempt to impose their will on another, or to take from another what is rightfully his.

God is NOT love. God is what ligitimises time and time again the VERY WORST OF HUMAN BEHAVIOUR.

[Ken Burch]

23. These lyrics, from a song by the English musician Robb Johnson, seem appropriate

I've been watching my tv,
It's the least that I can do
Paying my respects
To a girl who lived in Poland
All her hopes and dreams...
All she left behind...
Was the diary of a girl
killed in Auschwitz.

I'm trying to find the word,
The word that could describe,
What happened to this girl
When she died.

I've been following this link
It's the least that I can do
Paying my respects
To a girl who lived in Palestine
All her hopes and dreams...
All she left behind...
Was the picture of a girl
killed in Gaza

I'm trying to find the word
The word that could describe
What happened to this girl
When she died.

This world has lots of words
Like "Holocaust" and "slaughter"
What their mathmetics means
is mothers lose their daughters.
The least that I can do,
Is to add another song,
for that little pile of shoes
In Auschwitz...in Gaza...

I'm trying to find the word
The word that could describe
What happened to these sisters,
When they died.

It's...

Inexcusable...

Inexcusable...

Inexcusable...