Israel/Palestine
Related: About this forumState Dept.: Israel’s discrimination keeps it out of visa waiver deal
Discrimination against visiting Arab-Americans is the primary reason Israel is not eligible for a program allowing Israeli tourists in to the United States without visas, the Obama administration said.
The Department of Homeland Security and State remain concerned with the unequal treatment that Palestinian Americans and other Americans of Middle Eastern origin experience at Israels border and checkpoints, and reciprocity is the most basic condition of the Visa Waiver Program, Jen Psaki, the State Department spokeswoman, said March 21 in her daily briefing with reporters.
The State Department warns Americans of Arab descent that they may be delayed or even turned back when arriving at Israeli points of entry.
Israel says its rate of refusal of entry for Arab-Americans is not disproportionate and notes that under the Oslo agreements with the Palestinians, foreigners of Palestinian descent undergo a different entry protocol.
Read more: http://www.jta.org/2014/03/25/news-opinion/politics/state-discrimination-keeps-israel-out-of-visa-waiver-deal#ixzz2x31mxLLo
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)azurnoir
(45,850 posts)Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)wants his plan to take hold.
Israeli
(4,151 posts)..when I read this today :
http://www.alternativenews.org/english/index.php/politics/israeli-sosaciety/7925-israeli-right-wing-u-s-denies-visas-to-israeli-officers
Seriously Jefferson23 ....it wont change a thing .
I think Kerry's plan has had it .
read here :
http://www.kibush.co.il/show_file.asp?num=63847
.." A decision is expected this week on whether even these mini-talks should be discontinued as well. If Israel doesn`t release the final group of Palestinian prisoners by this Saturday, the Palestinians say they will withdraw. The release of 104 Palestinians who were arrested prior to 1993`s Oslo Accords was a condition for the resumption of negotiations -- a provision Netanyahu agreed to under pressure from the United States.
Bennett, however, is insisting that the prisoners stay behind bars. `We aren`t going to allow murderers and terrorists to walk again,` he says, speaking in his office. He`s also threatening to allow the government to collapse over the issue. "
.." Bennett, though, is the first to have succeeded in anchoring nationalist-religious ideology in core government ministries. His views have broad support in a Netanyahu cabinet in which nearly half the ministers live on the other side of the Green Line -- meaning in Palestinian territories. "
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)The Kerry plan which is generous to Israel vs the Palestinians ( disturbingly so ) is revealing Netanyahu, who
represents Israel, as the leader who will not co-operate..he essentially would prefer endless occupation.
When I say I don't think they appreciate how determined Kerry is, I mean that literally. Kerry does not
want another failure as he had with Syria awhile back..so it will get interesting going forward, I think.
From what I have read, it seems hard to believe Netanyahu won't go along in the end and part of the
plan is to have Abbas extend talks which will enable Bibi to secure more land..changing more facts on the ground
before any final agreement is signed off.
With that said, events can change in a day and with much more violence erupting already, nothing
is certain. Abbas is not a leader the Palestinians can count on and the pressure is intense from the
US and the EU. I don't believe he can trust the Arab League for much, either.
Thank you for the links, I appreciate them and I read all your posts here...wonderful contribution
for me to read your perspective.
Israeli
(4,151 posts)If the information published is true, and Netanyahu really is preparing to release an additional 400 prisoners, including Israeli Arabs, in exchange for a half-year extension of the talks, then this is a sure sign that Netanyahu is under intense pressure. The prime minister understands the implications of the new situation and is prepared to pay an exorbitant and exasperating price for just a few more months of maintaining the diplomatic status quo. Netanyahu could just have easily skipped the hurdle of this prisoner release, including a delay of the fourth pulse over which all of the debate is now focused, if he would just agree to freeze construction in the settlements. The problem is that right-wing domination of his rule prevents him from choosing that track.
Unlike Netanyahu, the ministers on the right have been showing shortsightedness toward what seems like a diplomatic failure which, in the long term, will turn the State of Israel into a pariah in Europe, even among its closest friends.
On Sunday, March 30, at the start of one of the most critical weeks in the negotiations, Netanyahu looked like he was grasping at straws. He knows what Abbas knows and what the Americans refuse to understand. The negotiations led by Kerry over the past nine months are fast approaching their inevitable crash.
As far as Netanyahu is concerned, the clash between Israels diplomatic interests and the right-wing coalition is not easily resolved. This raises an important question: Will he be ready to take a risk and see whether HaBayit HaYehudi party really fulfills its threat to quit the government if more prisoners are released in exchange for an extension of the negotiations? So far, Bennett and Ariel have only threatened, preferring to contain the previous prisoner releases while clinging strongly to their seats at the Cabinet table.
I think Kerry has brought Pollard's release to the table to give Bibi a way out with HaBayit HaYehudi .....if he has he has played the joker in the pack too soon ...and I doubt it will work .
see : http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4505534,00.html
Israeli
(4,151 posts)Source says spy to be released before Passover; Kerry meets with Netanyahu as talks teeter on brink of collapse, said set to return Wednesday for Abbas meeting.
Roi Kais and Agencies Published: 04.01.14, 11:29 / Israel News
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4505574,00.html
Israeli
(4,151 posts)I'm prepared to bet that Marwan Barghouti is part of this deal :
Associated Press/Y-net - In Kerry`s emergency visit to Israel, attempting to prevent the imminent collapse of his mediation efforts, the issue of releasing Israeli spy Jonathan Pollard was raised - after many years when the US completely rejected the idea. Gaining Pollard`s freedom would be a political coup for Netanyahu in Israeli politics. However, in return Netanyahu would have to make significant concessions - including the release of more Palestinian prisoners beyond those he already committed to eight months ago, possibly prominent names such as Marwan Bargouthi, as well as a settlement construction freeze. Pollard himself is close to the Israeli extreme right, which for many years championed his cause, and Minister Uri Ariel of the Jewish Home Party asserts that he would not want to be released under such terms; however, the decision might not be taken out of Pollard`s own hands.
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)his dissenters on the prisoner releases,as you say. That is a big deal, the US did not want to give him up.
You have waged a fair bet about Marwan,..but I worry that will cost Abbas a great deal
in concessions in return.
This is a worry:
*In return, the Palestinians would continue to abide by their obligation to refrain from applying to UN and other international bodies for the duration of the talks.
As it is now, the US/EU and Israel are walking all over him. I have always been skeptical of BDS
and its ability to make a difference, but it is ironic that Kerry and the EU have threatened Netanyahu
with it, but it also seems to be coming to the forefront, on its own merits, more than I would have expected.
Israeli
(4,151 posts)see :
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4505791,00.html
The Palestinians were really pissed off....
The report claimed that Palestinian negotiators who met with US Secretary of State John Kerry Tuesday night, including Saeb Erekat, expressed their anger at reports Pollard would go free as part of the deal, and said they would agree to extend the talks only if Israel frees another 1,000 prisoners, including political heavyweights as well as female and ill prisoners."
That was probably the last straw .
Well.......its not a worry anymore .
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)But in a good way..so we'll see.
In solidarity, for peace.
Israeli
(4,151 posts)Honestly, never thought it had a chance from day one ....but kept on hoping .
You want to see the true face of this Gov ?
Here it is in all its glory :
http://www.timesofisrael.com/ministers-threaten-retaliation-over-abbass-un-move/
Deputy Knesset Speaker Moshe Feiglin (Likud) called for Israel to announce the cancellation of the infernal [Oslo] agreements and to exercise Israeli sovereignty over all the territory.
Threats and more threats ....their answer to Abbas is to annex their beloved Judea and Samaria .
Bibi has lost control ....Kerry and Obama have given up .
Nothing good about any of this that I can see Jefferson23.
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)Let the process proceed through the UN agencies.
The Palestinians were not going to receive enough for a viable state through the Kerry plan, regardless.
Yesterday was a turning point for Palestinians, more to come.
Israeli
(4,151 posts)I'm extremely pessimistic right now .... I think we are looking at the end of a two State solution .
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)Feiglin ect always shoot their mouths off at times like this, political opportunism, however Bibi is still in charge and he's not going to do something as stupid as annexing the West Bank or even area c, that would lead to political difficulties that perhaps even the US could not over come
Israeli
(4,151 posts)next elections could change everything ....but what if next elections Bibi is out and Feiglin , Naftali Bennett and co .....and Avigdor Lieberman are in ?
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)my most pessimistic view of this is that Bibi thinks he can hunker down and weather the political storm, until the next quite possibly more friendly US administration comes to power , in which case the 2 state solution was DOA anyway, the question is does Bibi think he can keep the status quo going indefinitely-my thought is yes quite possibly he does
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)framework was not going to provide enough for a viable state. It is one thing to negotiate and not
receive everything that you are legally entitled to..but this was nuts.
If Abbas had agreed to continue the talks, even if he had received some prisoners..it is the
land that continues to be seized by Israel and why they want the extensions to "talk". The US has
done nothing of substance to stop the settlements. The US is learning that even when they are generous
to Israel, they get crapped on anyway...which brings us to the reality of our toxic alliance with each other.
Abbas would have been a fool to have agreed to any extension with prisoners as the pay off,
I was relieved to see him push back.
I do hope he can stand strong going forward.
shira
(30,109 posts)http://www.the-american-interest.com/articles/2014/04/01/dont-do-it-mr-secretary/
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)oh BTW luvved the Bobby Jindal NRA convention ticket ad mid page-said a bit about the source
shira
(30,109 posts)Seems you're defending anti-Jewish discrimination, which is not very surprising.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)the one doing the 'accusing' is yourself, which is a technique IMO of not actually answering the question
I'll accept that as an answer
Israeli
(4,151 posts)It was with good reason that someone once said the occupation will not end until Israelis are refused entry to the Galeries Lafayette.
By Gideon Levy
Israel is ready to become a fairer country: In exchange for joining Americas visa waiver program, Israel will agree to give equal treatment to U.S. citizens of Palestinian origin at its borders. The Israeli government has declared that in exchange for free entry to the United States in time to catch the sale at Macys and take a stroll down Fifth Avenue, it is ready to stop discriminating, interrogating, abusing and deporting. In exchange for ending the humiliation that comes with having to wait in line at the U.S. consulate, Israel is ready to end the humiliation that comes with being profiled in the security inspection at Ben-Gurion Airport. No more security threats, no more danger of terrorism lurking within every Palestinian, even if theyre American.
It turns out that there is something that trumps our cult of security and the hush-hush god of secrecy: a visa waiver. Now what will the Shin Bet, our guardian on the wall, have to say now that the gates are open at Ben-Gurion, and every Mohammed from Virginia and Ahmed from California can walk right in? Security has been the justification for profiling and discrimination; what will become of security now?
This poetic justice was achieved thanks to none other than Deputy Foreign Minister Zeev Elkin, who knows a thing or two about discriminating against Arabs. It was him, the right-wing nationalist, believe it or not, who made this happen and all in exchange for realizing the American dream, which is of course much bigger than most Israeli dreams. This irony should teach other nations around the world a thing or two about dealing with the stubborn, condescending state in the Middle East.
What is Israel asking for, anyway? To save its citizens a two-hour wait at the consulate and having to fill out some online forms. Humiliation? Perhaps, but it pales in comparison to the lengths others must go to in order to gain entry into Israel, a nation that has refused entry to European parliament members as well as American intellectuals because of their opinions, even Jewish ones like Noam Chomsky and Norman Finkelstein. Israel, the country where peace activists arent welcome, and where every person bearing an Arab name is considered a suspicious object, no matter their citizenship, is now ready to change its policies in exchange for a few visa waivers. The message is clear: Hit them in their pockets, or at least their visas. Thats the only way.
The only thing that would bring about change is if Israeli citizens received the same treatment throughout the world that Israel dishes out to others. Imagine the worldwide scandal if an Israeli intellectual were refused entry to the United States over articles hed written, or if a Knesset member were turned away from a European country over her opinion. Imagine if settlers needed approval to visit London, or IDF officers to visit Berlin, amid suspicions that theyve broken international law. Imagine if Thailand treated Israeli tourists the same way Israel treats Thais who want to visit. An Israeli is of a mind to go to Jordan ahlan wa-sahlan. A Jordanian wants to come to Israel? Forget it. Imagine if Israeli backpackers were subject to the same kinds of degrading, scandalous interrogations young Europeans are put through their computers are scanned, also their private parts, and theyre made to fill out ridiculous questionnaires asking intimate details, including where theyve slept and with whom.
When Israelis start to feel all of this, perhaps theyll understand how their country abuses those who wish to come see it. It was with good reason that someone once said the occupation will not end until Israelis are refused entry to the Galeries Lafayette. We should give it a try. Its better than bloodshed.
In the meantime, it turns out that a long line on Hayarkon Street perturbs Israelis enough that theyre willing to give up discriminating against Arabs, the joy of their hearts and rock of their existence. It turns out that if the Americans want it to be so, even a broom can shoot: If Israel is willing to sell its security in exchange for the carrot of visa waivers, what will Israel do when it faces the stick of sanctions and boycotts? Ask Elkin. When he says, Israelis arent suckers, he knows what hes talking about.
Source : http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-1.586954