The Palestinians Must Put an End to Suicidal Hamas

[shira]

One message from the current crisis over Gaza is clear: the Palestinians have to get rid of Hamas. No one else can do it: The Israelis, vastly superior in military terms, only strengthen Hamas politically by wantonly raining death and destruction on Gaza. But the fanatics of Hamas, who seem to believe that they can resist Israel militarily—along with the even more radical Islamist groups that run around in Gaza—do incalculable damage to the Palestinian cause.

In this case, I agree with Bret Stephens, who wrote today in the Wall Street Journal, concerning Israel and Hamas, “If you must have a nemesis, better it be a stupid one.” Stephens, a neoconservative hawk who is a blind supporter of Israel, certainly doesn’t qualify as sympathetic to the Palestinian plight. But he’s right here: Israel has no stupider enemy than Hamas. And the people of Gaza, entrapped in a hellish, prison-like entity—where conditions of despair give rise to the nihilist, Islamist radicalism of Hamas—have once again to endure the pain of Israel’s bombardment. And for what? Already in Gaza Israel has struck nearly 1,500 separate targets and killed more than 200 people, including civilians and children....

....Making matters worse, and perhaps leading to a full-scale assault on Gaza, Hamas arrogantly rejected a workable ceasefire plan that was proposed yesterday by Egypt and apparently accepted by Israel’s government—though not without criticism of Netanyahu’s agreement to the ceasefire from even more militant Israeli factions. The Egyptian proposal also had the support of Secretary of State John Kerry, although the United States could do a lot more, including strong condemnations of Israel’s indiscriminate bombing of civilian homes in Gaza. (Apparently, the White House believes that Israel’s use of force is not disproportionate.) But it boggles the mind to think what Hamas believes it is accomplishing by continuing a suicidal campaign against Israel’s overwhelming might.

In Gaza, supporters of Hamas are chanting, “Ya Qassam, ya habib. Strike, strike Tel Aviv!” Do they live on another planet?

http://www.thenation.com/blog/180648/palestinians-must-put-end-suicidal-hamas#

[HooptieWagon]

3. Exactly.

The Palestinians struggle to get through each day. Expecting them to fight Hamas is unrealistic.

[The Green Manalishi]

27. If you see someone getting ready to launch a rocket

right outside your door,

shoot them.

That's about what it will take.

unless Palestinians start using non violent protest against Hamas.

In a weird sense, as an American I can slightly identify - I am hated by others in the world because of what a violent, fanatical, thuggish kleptocracy running the country did/does. About a billionth as severe, if even that, but I expect that average Gazan has as much frustration with Hamas as we did with GWB (just infinitly more immediate and lethal results).

[King_David]

45. Yep

[PDJane]

2. No.

They live in a world where Israel has blockaded them, restricted their food supply, dumped their sewage on Palestinian fields, reaped the harvest that Palestinians have planed, indulged in 'price tag' attacks, demolished their homes, stolen their lands, denied right of return, taken their children from their beds, bombed them every time they can find an excuse, and subjected them to a brutal occupation for 48 years.

What planet do you live on?

[shira]

4. No, what? Palestinians must support suicidal Hamas?

There are better ways for Palestinians to resist, rather than supporting the genocidal lunatics from Hamas.

[PDJane]

6. Really? What would those be?

What do you think that a people who are being shunted into smaller and smaller portions of their own land are supposed to do? How many Palestinians have been killed or jailed for peaceful protests on their own lands?

What in the name of all that's just do you suggest?

[shira]

8. So u believe there is no better option....

....for Palestinians than what Hamas is doing right now, rejecting the ceasefire, continuing the war...?

[aranthus]

11. Look at what she wants.

Read her list of things Israel has done that need to be rectified. She wants the end of the Jewish state. If that's what you want, then violence is the only option. This isn't Masada; the Jews aren't going to kill themselves.

[shira]

19. True. n/t

[COLGATE4]

28. Absolutely correct. In all the noise about terror

attacks with rockets and retaliation, the overall point is (sometimes deliberately, I believe) lost - that most Palestinians reject the idea of Israel in any way, shape or form and will only be content when the last Jew is driven into the sea. And, as you point out, there will be no repeat of Masada this time. So until the Palestinians abandon their pipedream of a Jew-free Palestine this crap will continue generation after generation. You can't make a deal with someone who doesn't want to do it.

[PDJane]

46. That, my dear colgate, comes under the heading of damn lies.

What the palestinians want is their lives back. Their farms, their lives, their water table back.

If Israel weren't killing Gazan children at the rate of more than 2 per week for the last fourteen years, and annexing so much land that there is decreasing room for them in their own land, there would not be rockets and extremism. Read the history of the occupation, understand what is done to the Palestinians, and realize that they are being subjected to war crimes.

What Israel is doing is illegal under international law.

[PDJane]

42. You aren't listening.

And that is wrong. What I want is an equal footing for the Palestinians; either give them the lands that they own back, give them right of return and learn to live with them, or divide Palestine on a fair basis, and provide the Palestinians with a peaceful land of their own....stop destroying homes and orchards and fields and let them live in peace as well.

This is not the destruction of Israel.

[PDJane]

12. No. But changing international opinion and putting together a coalition governmant

Are not going to happen as long as Israel has the upper hand, and the Palestinians are going to die in silence if Israel has her way.

The rockets are the only way for a captive people to fight back, and the fact that only 1 Israel has died as opposed to hundreds of palestinians are finally coming to the international media.


Is it a good solution? No. But I think it's time to stop making Hamas the boogeyman, that villian in the closet. In fact, there is no reason to put the kidnapping of those three kids on the back of Hamas....there is no proof that the Palestinians kidnapped those kids. There is no evidence about who did it. It's time to stop blaming every damn thing on Hamas.......and stop killing and abusing Palestinians. Period. The occupation has to end.

[shira]

13. "The rockets are the only way for a captive people...

....to fight back".



How's it working out for those people so far? Hamas wants Palestinians dead:

Hamas is enemy #1 to Palestinians.

[PDJane]

31. I think you have your story wrong.

Israel is the #1 enemy of Palestinians, and has been since before the inception of Palestine. Moreover, it's not as though the Palestinians can do anything about them, as long as Israel wants those attacks to justify their own.

[shira]

32. Hamas is trying hard to kill its own people

What would it take for them to do to earn your condemnation?

[PDJane]

33. What would it take for you to admit they aren't the ones killing their people?

They are just an excuse. And, by the way, I'm done with this pseudo-conversation.

[totodeinhere]

47. As long as Hamas remains in power it will just get worse. There has got to be another

way.

[PDJane]

48. If Hamas didn't exist, Israel would have to make them up.

It has not one damn thing to do with Hamas.

Hamas is an excuse, not a reason, to kill Palestinians. It is genocide, and whether Hamas fires rockets or not has nothing to do with the Israeli game. Israel is a master at propaganda.

[totodeinhere]

49. Oh come on. If Israel had wanted to commit genocide they could have killed

every Palestinian already. But on the other hand, if Hamas had the means they would kill every Jew in the Holy Land.

http://www.ijreview.com/2014/07/158572-just-count-number-times-bill-maher-defends-israel-clip/

[azurnoir]

50. ah Bill Maher here's a tweet of his related to that same show

pretty much says it for Mr Bill

[PDJane]

55. Bill Maher is, simply, wrong.

Palestine does have the historical high ground, and the right, under those pesky Geneva Conventions, to self-defense.

[PDJane]

54. Israelis are not all willing to killl at will. Nor are all Jews willing to turn their backs.

Israel hasn't killed every Palestinian because they can't; public opinion means that even Zionists must be careful.

While Hamas is good at rhetoric, most Palestinians would be willing to live on an equal footing with Israel; that means full citizenship, with voting rights, land rights, and peace.

Please don't be more blind than necessary. Hell, the last round of peace talks left Arafat agreeing to the 1969 borders, as long as Palestine was granted autonomy. Israel wouldn't even agree to that.

[Israeli]

14. yes there is shira ...

BDS .

Non violent protest .

.... but you are against that to .

So how would you suggest Palestinains resist the occupation ?

Roll over and let you tickle their tummies ?

[shira]

17. "How would you suggest Palestinians resist...occupation"?

That's what Hamas is doing? They're rocketing Israel to bring about a peaceful 2 state solution?

Really?

[Israeli]

21. Hamas are not interested in a ...

Two State Solution shira .... neither is Bibi .

http://www.timesofisrael.com/netanyahu-finally-speaks-his-mind/

So what now ?

[shira]

24. So rockets are not legit resistance 2 occupation.

We agree, right?

[Israeli]

30. absolutely ....

BDS is the way to go shira .

[shira]

34. BDS calls for an end to Israel, full right of return....

That's a call to war, unlike simply boycotting or divesting from settlement products.

[Israeli]

37. No it does not shira ....

It calls for an end to the occupation ....for the right of the Palestinian people to have their own State as we have ours .

Two States for two people shira .....its that simple .

Hamas dosnt agree ..... Bibi doesnt agree .

So I ask you once again ......what now ?

[shira]

38. 2 short videos on BDS. First one stars Norman Finkelstein….

Last edited Tue Jul 15, 2014, 09:49 PM - Edit history (1)

By no means is Finkelstein some blind supporter of the settlements….

And this one stars the co-founder of BDS, Omar Barghouti as well as other leaders of BDS…

In no way can it be said that BDS is for 2 states or peace. In fact, the founder of BDS, Omar Barghouti, came out today rejecting the ceasefire. Not enuff Palestinian blood being shed, apparently.

http://www.thecitizen.in/palestinians-totally-united-in-rejecting-egypts-pro-israel-proposal-for-ceasefire/

[Larkspur]

22. Israel treats non-violent Palestinian protesters the same as Hamas militants

To Israel and its blind supporters, any one who protests Israels policies, whether its done non-violently or with arms, is a threat to Israel and are brutally suppressed. The Palestinians are in a Catch-22: they are ignored by the US if they protest non-violently and condemned if they protest with weapons. And most always, the US media takes the side of Israel and depicts the 5th most powerful military in the world as vulnerable sheep.

How many stories of non-violent Palestinian protest do you see report in the US Media? 0 at last count. But as soon as the rockets flare from Gaza, the US Media can't get enough of the action.

[shira]

26. You upset Hamas rejected the ceasefire? n/t

[Warpy]

35. Hamas is a little more complicated than you think it is

They also administer the hospitals and oversee things like food distribution and emergency housing.

The bureaucrats have got to find a way to rein in the hotheads.

However, hotheads in the Middle East have never been reined in by anything or anyone. Even the desert god they all blame has not been up to the job.

[redgreenandblue]

5. White people: "Blacks must reject ghetto culture."

That is what it boils down to.

Israel is simply yet another place where a racist white privileged class blames dark skinned people for the results of decades of systemic oppression.

[shira]

7. Yeah, except most Israelis aren't white.

Bill Maher:

What I find so ironic is that after World War II, everybody said, ‘I don’t understand the Jews. How could they have just gone to their slaughter like that?’ OK, and then when they fight back: ‘I don’t understand the Jews. Why can’t they just go to their slaughter?’ It’s like, ‘You know what? We did that once. It’s not gonna happen again. You’re just gonna have to get used to the fact that Jews now defend themselves -- and by the way, defend themselves better.

[redgreenandblue]

9. Bill Maher is a white privileged bigot.

That he would side with people like him is no surprise.

[azurnoir]

10. How old is Maher, how does he know what "everybody" said about Jews after WW2

quite frankly Maher and I are the same age and really not once have I ever heard anyone say something like that, such clap trap is designed for an audience that knows no better

[hack89]

16. His mother was a Hungarian Jew

I suspect he knows better than most.

[azurnoir]

18. yes I am quite aware of that albeit Maher was not until he was a teenager

is she a Holocaust survivor or simply a Jewish American of Hungarian background?

[hack89]

20. Don't know

but considering that two thirds of the Jews in Hungary died in the Holocaust, it is not hard to imagine that he had relatives on his mothers side that were killed.

[azurnoir]

23. I would 'imagine' that virtually every Jew in the US had relatives that died in the Holocaust

that said it would depend on the length of time said family had been in the US as to whether or not they actually knew or had contact with any of these relatives, and while a large number of Ashkenazim came to the US between 1880 and 1914 there was a sizable population that arrived between 1830-1879 and most of those from the earlier group had by WW2 lost connect with their European relatives there was more contact in the later group in fact the more recent the arrival the likely close relations were, but once you move past the first generation the more distant the families become BTW I've seen this first hand so to speak

[hack89]

25. ok nt

[PCIntern]

43. Then given your subject line,

you therefore must understand, if you have an I.Q. above room temperature, why Jews just ain't gonna listen to everyone else about where they can live, eat, sleep, and go to school in peace.

Never, ever, again.

[azurnoir]

52. really in the US? is that what you're speaking of? that was the subject

is there somewhere in the US where Jews are not allowed to live, eat, sleep, and go to school in peace?

[Warpy]

36. Excellent parallel. I also see it's going over most DU heads.

I just wanted you to know somebody got it.

[bravenak]

53. I see this too.

Conquistadors.

[hack89]

15. “If you must have a nemesis, better it be a stupid one.”

that says it all right there.

[shira]

29. Stupid fanatical enemies tend to self-destruct...

...eventually. History is replete with examples where they eventually overreach.

[enid602]

51. Bibi

The Palestinians have to get rid of Hamas while the Jews get to keep 'Bibi the Butcher?' Doesn't seem fair . . .

[wellst0nev0ter]

57. Israel Helped Empower Hamas

As I’ve written repeatedly over the years, in the 1970s and 1980s Israel’s intelligence service—especially after the rise of the Likud government of Prime Minister Menachem Begin in 1977—helped Hamas organize and gain power. The Israelis aided Islamists on the West Bank and in Gaza, including the Muslim Brotherhood (of which Hamas is a branch), in the belief (correct, as it turned out) that Hamas would be a bitter enemy of the Palestinian nationalist movement. Indeed, back then the early supporters of Hamas clashed with moderate and left-wing Palestinian groups throughout the occupied territories. Decades later, Hamas has emerged as the perfect foil for Israeli rightists and advocates of Greater Israel, such as Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.

Indefensible.

[shira]

58. The Gaza people voted for Hamas. Their choice. And here you are deflecting...

...from what Hamas does to its own people so you can bash Israel.

You're part of the problem, not the solution.

=======

Are you even aware, can you even acknowledge what Hamas does to Gazan civilians?

[wellst0nev0ter]

59. So You Admit That The Israelis Helped Bring About Hamas

Indefensible.