Israel/Palestine
Related: About this forumTo my fellow American Jews
http://mondoweiss.net/2014/07/fellow-american-jews.htmlBecause of you, I am loud and I shout. But Ive noticed you are growing quiet almost silent as an injustice is taking place in Palestine. I think that I know why. I think that as Operation Protective Edge marches onward, you feel your convictions clashing. You, more so than me, were raised to believe that Israel is something it is not: a democracy, with values just like yours, amidst a sea of aggressors. But with each passing day, it becomes harder and harder to close your eyes to a glaring reality.
----
Israel likes to claim that it is acting in self-defense. Putting aside the fact that, according to laws of armed conflict, Israel does not actually have the right to self-defense against a population that it militarily occupies, I still find this a hard pill to swallow. While Netanyahu claims that Hamas has disrupted the calm of the last few years, Ive lived in Palestine and I can tell you that there was no calm. At least not for Palestinians. There is a constant, nagging, never-ending violence. This didnt start with three Israeli teenagers who were kidnapped while hitchhiking home from their schools in settlements through an Israeli military controlled area. Before there were those Israeli teenagers, there were two Palestinian teenagers who were shot in the chest and in the back as they milled around in front of a store in the West Bank. Their murders were caught on camera and yet there was no justice. And there was the systematic and institutionalized arrest and detention of approximately 8,000 Palestinian children since 2000. And there was Israels torture and mistreatment of hundreds of Palestinians who went on hunger strike to protest their detention without charge or trial. And there were Israeli soldiers firing tear gas, sewage water, rubber coated steel bullets and live ammunition at weekly non-violent Palestinian demonstrations against settlements. And before that there was the construction of a Wall that cuts through Palestinian land and isolates families from one another.
I know that you were raised to believe that Israel exists to protect Jews and Judaism. But Israel is killing my Judaism. It is killing the Judaism you raised me with. How can I reconcile stand with the oppressed with supporting an army that drops white phosphorous gas on children? How can I question everything while believing New York Times headlines that blame Gazans for their own deaths? To remain neutral is to side with the oppressor you taught me that. To grow silent is to turn my back on our Judaism a Judaism that speaks of community and love and healing the world. I refuse to do that. I hope you will too.
roguevalley
(40,656 posts)Israel being killed and harmed by bastards. Put all the cowards in charge in a room with ax handles and let them kill each other. All of them.
Response to roguevalley (Reply #1)
cerveza_gratis This message was self-deleted by its author.
oldandhappy
(6,719 posts)Current Jewish behavior has changed me from pro-Israel to anti-Israel. Extermination of your enemy only is rational against cockroaches. The state of Israel has a better chance of lasting if it recognizes it's neighbors. Conservative christians in the U.S. are not helping Israel make sane choices. The Far Right christians are pushing for armaggeden -- sorry I do not know how to spell it.
King_David
(14,851 posts)Nuff said about your post .
NaturalHigh
(12,778 posts)True colors showing.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)locks
(2,012 posts)The Jews I have known and loved worked so hard for peace and civil rights for so many years. I hope they will not stay silent while more Palestinians die.
zentrum
(9,865 posts)....killing real Judaism. Albert Einstein said that even the idea of Zionism was not real Judaism. What Israel is doing to the Palestinians is a massive crime against humanity.
King_David
(14,851 posts)zentrum
(9,865 posts)Called Our Debt to Zionism. He said: "I should much rather see reasonable agreement with the Arabs on the basis of living together in peace than the creation of a Jewish state. My awareness of the essential nature of Judaism resists the idea of a Jewish state with borders, an army, and a measure of temporal power, no matter how modest. I am afraid of the inner damage Judaism will sustainespecially from the development of a narrow nationalism within our own ranks, against which we have already had to fight strongly, even without a Jewish state."
This is but one example of a known concern he had about the damage Zionistic Israel was doing to Judaism itself.
Just as a Christian State would, by definition, destroy the real meaning of Christianity. That's my opinion, not Einstein's, but it makes the point.
King_David
(14,851 posts)King_David
(14,851 posts)With a link :
Debunking Fake Albert Einstein Quotes
http://skepticaesoterica.com/debunking-fake-albert-einstein-quotes/
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)http://www.theguardian.com/world/2005/feb/16/israel.india
But his praise of Zionism was peppered with unease. Traumatised by central European anti-semitism, Einstein was keenly aware of the potential for excess embedded in nationalist ideologies and movements. From early on, he found much to admire in the liberal vision, propagated by some Palestinian Jewish intellectuals, of a binational Arab-Jewish state. Speaking in New York City in 1938, he declared: "I should much rather see reasonable agreement with the Arabs on the basis of living together in peace than the creation of a Jewish state... My awareness of the essential nature of Judaism resists the idea of a Jewish state with borders, an army, and a measure of temporal power... I am afraid of the inner damage Judaism will sustain."
Nice try.
Shaktimaan
(5,397 posts)AE disapproved of nationalism as a general concept, not Zionism in particular. It bears noting that he wasn't religious nor did he believe in god; his relationship with Judaism was a cultural one and his comments should take these beliefs into account before extrapolating on them.
It should be convincing evidence of Israel's legitimacy wrt arab intransigence that AE's views on Zionism changed over time as events in Palestine convinced him that his idealistic dream of co-existing peacefully proved impractical. His work on Israel's behalf eventually led to an invitation to be Israel's first president, a position he declined.
AE was famously critical of aspects of political Zionist movements but don't confuse him as being an overall opponent of Zionism or Israel. He was anything but.
zentrum
(9,865 posts)"Judaism" means to AE. It's cultural (intellectual, social, philosophical, inclusive, progressive democratic) importance. That's what I'm saying. He thought the values of cultural judaism would be destroyed by nationalism. Which is in fact the case.The reason he refused the invitation to be Israel's first president is obvious.
The removal of Palestinians from their traditional homes was the first act of intransigence. Let's not rewrite history to fit the Bible. You don't really think God gave Jews that land as "the Chosen People" --do you? If the so-called "homeland" of the Jews keeps behaving the way it does, it will eventually cause a larger war---so what's the use? NYC, LA and Chicago are perfectly fine, naturally grown "homelands" and a boon to any country where cultural judaism is allowed to flourish.
But go ahead, you can have the last word. I'm done.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)I haven't seen that in a while.
mountain grammy
(26,621 posts)I'm a non believer. My mother was blindly pro Israel, like most Jews her age. She died in 1988 and was already beginning to be uncomfortable with some of Israel's policies.
burrowowl
(17,641 posts)ellenrr
(3,864 posts)both are valid sources of information
and in fact, often carry the same posts -
so ask yourself, why is one allowed, and one hidden?
What is the administrator afraid of?
Or is it simply anti-Arab bias?
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)Mosby
(16,311 posts)shit without DU I wouldn't know that I'm a Bad Jew.
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)Response to Jefferson23 (Reply #11)
Mosby This message was self-deleted by its author.
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)Star Member Mosby (4,089 posts)
12. fuck you.
King_David
(14,851 posts)Everyone else here like you guys do.
Mosby just happens to be part of the community and of course you guys know better than all of us .
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)seem to believe.
The "you guys" is a sad tactic for you to depend on.
King_David
(14,851 posts)Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)King_David
(14,851 posts)This group are in fact not Jewish.
Go figure.
LOL
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)an opinion on the conflict?
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)Be specific. Cite examples.
If you aren't up to it then I have no other recourse except to call you on your antics.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)of accusations with nothing inside.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)Really? Do tell.
King_David
(14,851 posts)And see how many recs it gets there .
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)resonate with many within DU.
You shouldn't get upset over that inasmuch as might give you time to think the article through.
King_David
(14,851 posts)In the Golah as being results of actions in Israel .
http://www.democraticunderground.com/113468222
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)King_David
(14,851 posts)What's my agenda ?
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)King_David
(14,851 posts)The OP was directed to myself.
Was it directed to you?
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)at the poster who you are attempting to support. That derailing.
King_David
(14,851 posts)You realize there's a link ?
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)King_David
(14,851 posts)Seems that most response and recs is not coming from his "fellow American Jews"
Response to King_David (Reply #27)
Post removed
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)subject being addressed?
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)They're frightened of the truth.
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)am seeing here. Sad stuff.
King_David
(14,851 posts)Belongs together with this other classic preaching to American Jews :
http://www.democraticunderground.com/113468386
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)the big picture.
I would imagine that one with your background would be more open to new ideas, but I guess that not all medical professionals are enlightened.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)The only way that you pretended it was by adding "Israel" in your own comment to the article.
Well, it's too bad for you that the author of the article is writing about Israel.
broiles
(1,367 posts)R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)author through Mondoweiss.
It takes a lot of courage to say these things, and there are a lot of ugly posts that would try and derail such courage.
McCamy Taylor
(19,240 posts)Don't let any country or company co-opt your religion.
stonecutter357
(12,697 posts)Israeli
(4,151 posts)Great post .....almost restores my faith in American Jews .
I hope you dont mind but I would like to add another link to here ....in a similar vein :
An open condolences letter to the family of Mohammad Abu Khdeir and the Palestinian people
http://eng.haokets.org/2014/07/16/an-open-condolences-letter-to-the-family-of-mohammad-abu-khdeir-and-the-palestinian-people/
BTW never seen a post on here get so many recs ....now I just have to find out how I add mine .