Obama admin refuses to call Jerusalem Israel's capital

[azurnoir]

A long-standing point of contention between Israel and the US (one of the few that exists) is the fact that while Congress and the vast majority of American citizens recognize Jerusalem as the capital of the Jewish state, the White House refuses to do so.

The Obama Administration's position on Jerusalem took center stage this week when a State Department spokeswoman refused during a press briefing to accept that the city, even the non-contested and Jewish dominated western half, is the capital of Israel.

Early in the week, the Washington Free Beacon political blog discovered that a State Department communication posted online had identified "Jerusalem" and "Israel" as separate Middle East entities. Following that revelation, the State Department quickly altered the communique to list only cities and not countries.

At Wednesday's weekly press briefing, a reporter asked State Department spokeswoman Victoria Nuland to comment on the issue, to which she replied, "Our policy with regard to Jerusalem is that it has to be solved through negotiations. We are not going to prejudge the outcome of those negotiations, including the final status of Jerusalem. ...That's all I have to say...”

http://www.israeltoday.co.il/News/tabid/178/nid/23174/language/en-US/Default.aspx

[Lionessa]

1. Good! Because it isn't nor should be.

I hope he can continue to hold his ground on these Israeli matters. If he can't, perhaps it proves some long standing opinions about which country is puppet-mastering the other. Seems we have been held hostage to Israel's finely tuned demands way too long.

[Riftaxe]

4. It has been since 1980

In what reality is it not?

[Lionessa]

6. Well I guess that's news to a lot of negotiators.

[azurnoir]

12. In the reality that is the rest of the world

Israel's annexation of East Jerusalem is not recognized by any other country including the US

[Lionessa]

13. No thank you. I'll continue to be on the side

of the underdogs, not the overlords.

[Shaktimaan]

16. overlords?

Suit yourself. Personally, I'm going to form my opinion based on research and learning as much as I can about the convoluted history surrounding this conflict.

By picking sides according to who is weaker/stronger you will likely find yourself in some truly odious company.

By the way, if West Jerusalem isn't part of Israel then that implicitly must mean that East Jerusalem isn't part of Palestine yet either, right? Meaning that Jews should have every right to live there without being derided as "settlers?"

[Shaktimaan]

17. puppet-mastering eh?

Last edited Tue Apr 3, 2012, 04:07 AM - Edit history (1)

So, how exactly are we held hostage to Israel's demands? Do you have any examples?
Because the idea sounds downright ridiculous to me.

Funny how you can just pick a random issue like this Jerusalem thing and use it's outcome to definitively prove "some long standing opinions" (i.e., ancient prejudices that you secretly believe in.)

[LeftishBrit]

32. Whatever one thinks of the Jerusalem question...

or of the I/P issue in general, Israel is not 'puppet-mastering' America or 'holding it hostage'. How can a country of 7 million hold a country with 300 million 'hostage' -especially as it is Israel that depends financially on America. One might think that the two collaborate too much; that America is biased in favour of Israel; and/or that Israel's financial dependence is unhealthy, but to talk of puppet-masters and hostages is to buy into some very unrealistic, and ultimately very right-wing, theories.

[Lionessa]

33. How? The same way the 1% do. Money. Grow up

and see the realities of our bought and paid for pols.

[LeftishBrit]

34. Money? According to that criterion, America's buying Israel.

Do you seriously think that the Israeli government are spending their money on bribing American politicians? More like the other way round, I'd say.

[Lionessa]

40. AIPAC.

[denverbill]

2. Why didn't GWB move our embassy from Tel Aviv if Jerusalem is the capital?

[shira]

3. Why can't the western half be recognized as such? n/t

[shaayecanaan]

5. For the same reason Obama opposes the recognition of the West Bank as Palestine...

As was made clear by the White House response, Obama opposes both unilateral recognition of the State of Palestine and of Jerusalem as Israel's capital. According to him, the status of Jerusalem is a matter to be resolved via negotiations between the two parties.

If he did recognise West Jerusalem as the capital of Israel, you can be sure that numerous countries will respond by recognising East Jerusalem as the capital of Palestine, and it will be very difficult for Obama to mount any sort of principled argument against such a move. Personally, I wouldnt mind seeing that as an outcome, but I am not sure that you would.

If the Israelis want the Palestinians to stop asking the UN to confer them with all sorts of recognition they would do well to stop pursuing the same strategy with the US Congress.

[oberliner]

9. Barack Obama: "Jerusalem will remain the capital of Israel, and it must remain undivided."

Wanna hear him say it?

#t=90

[azurnoir]

10. well it was a nice 2008 campaign speech

but where is the US embassy in Israel located? Will it be moving? He made a statement to AIPAC almost 4 years ago that goes against his present policy on the I/P issues, now if you wish to state he was being dishonest back then. by all means say so

[shaayecanaan]

14. He backtracked from those remarks almost immediately

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/44/2008/06/obama-backtracks-on-jerusalem.html

Facing criticism from Palestinians, Sen. Barack Obama acknowledged today that the status of Jerusalem will need to be negotiated in future peace talks, amending a statement earlier in the week that Jerusalem "must remain undivided."

Again, I would be quite happy for Obama to recognise Jerusalem as Israel's capital given the likely consequences, but I am not sure if our hasbarado friends have thought this one through.

[oberliner]

8. This is the "Jews for Jesus" news site

Though they use the PC "Messianic" term.

[azurnoir]

11. 'Odd" you seem not to feel it necessary to mention that in the numerous times it has been used here

Last edited Mon Apr 2, 2012, 09:09 PM - Edit history (1)

prior to this, why is that? Thanks for informing us of that, if quite belatedly

[oberliner]

19. The numerous times it has been used here?

Direct me to one such time if you would be so kind.

[azurnoir]

21. "direct me to one such time if you would be so kind." here ya go

http://www.democraticunderground.com/11346218

it was here on DU I 'discovered' this site

[shira]

22. Huh? The Times of Israel is a messianic christian J4J site? n/t

[azurnoir]

24. sorry I had David Horowitz's Times of Israel and Israel Today confused

possibly because both are quite rightwing and quite similar in content

[oberliner]

25. That's not the same source

You posted an article from Israel Today, a "Messianic Judaism" site.

The articles at the link you provided are from The Times of Israel.

[azurnoir]

26. yes I aknowledged those 2 things almost 3 hours ago in the post

above yours but still not being one to miss a chance to point out an error, but it is nice to see you do not have an apparent problem with David Horowitz's publication

[oberliner]

28. Not so

There is no acknowledgement or post to me of any kind.

[azurnoir]

29. post # 24 perhaps you need to read the thread a bit more

or did I need to repeat this for you personally?

[Ken Burch]

15. This has been the consistent U.S. position on this issue

As far as I know, NO presidential administration has ever formally recognized Jerusalem as the capital of Israel. No real news here.

The only people in American politics who have seriously suggested such a thing are on the Gingrichian fringe of the other party.

[shira]

20. (Shakti's point) If W.Jerusalem isn't in Israel, then E.Jerusalem isn't in Palestine....

Since E.Jerusalem isn't in Palestine, then why are Jews classified as illegal settlers there?

You can't have your cake & eat it too.

[azurnoir]

27. Doesn't Israel say that Jerusalem is united? apparently Obama is honoring that

guess your right you can't have your cake and eat it too

[Shaktimaan]

30. what makes you think he;s honoring that?

I think you're confused about what that saying means.

[azurnoir]

31. then explain what does Jerusalem is united mean ? n/t

[Shaktimaan]

42. not that saying.

having your cake and eating it too.
If west Jerusalem doesn't count as Israel yet, then what's wrong with having settlers?

[azurnoir]

43. what does the settler mean?

A settler is a person who has migrated to an area and established permanent residence there, often to colonize the area. Settlers are generally people who take up residence on land.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Settler

that's what is wrong

[Shaktimaan]

44. point being?

You are not seriously trying to use the general definition of the word settler to imply that it proves something about any specific use of the term, are you? That's entirely circular reasoning... because we refer to them as settlers that means that they must fulfill the definition as such... so if settlers are part of a colonial practice it must mean that Israel is a colonial state.

That's really horrible logic. If that's your best argument, precisely defining a colloquialism and assuming that meaning therefore follows, then you've become quite desperate.

[azurnoir]

45. so your saying that Israel does not intend permanence when it comes to settlers ?

then why the investment in money, resources, and people?

eta and this

http://www.democraticunderground.com/11347454

[Recursion]

35. The problem isn't that East Jerusalem is "in Palestine"

The problem is that Palestinian people living there were evicted.

[oberliner]

36. There are around 300,000 Palestinian people living in East Jerusalem

That's about ten times the amount that were living there during the Jordanian Occupation which began in 1948.

[Recursion]

37. I'm not sure what post you intended to respond to, but clearly it wasn't mine

Since what you say has absolutely zero bearing on my point.

[oberliner]

38. Oops - must have misunderstood!

Thanks for the correction.

[shira]

39. Jews were ethnically cleansed from E.Jerusalem in 1948.

Jews didn't come back into E.Jerusalem until 1967.

And Palestinians were never evicted from E.Jerusalem. In 1948, E.Jerusalem was taken by Jordan.

[Gurgen4]

18. I'm as pro-Obama as anyone else

But I am really disappointed by Obama's ambivalence towards Israel. Israel is America's best friend and ally in the world, and is the only democracy in the middle east. Moreover Israel is a progressive democratic state despite its imperfections (but what country can claim its "perfect&quot while its neigbhors are islamicst or radical right-wing, reactionary dictatorships. Who should we choose? The country which allows women equal opportunities, and is gay-friendly, and a world leader in science and technology, or backwards theocratic dictatorships run by bigoted bearded mullahs who beat their wives?

[Scurrilous]

46. K & R

[Jefferson23]

47. AIPAC position: Jerusalem is the capital of Israel

It is Israel’s largest city and a dynamic and multicultural metropolis, which has served as the Jewish people’s spiritual and religious capital for 3,000 years. Jews, Christians and Muslims are able to pray and live in the city.

Jerusalem is the capital of Israel. It is Israel’s largest city and a dynamic and multicultural metropolis, which has served as the Jewish people’s spiritual and religious capital for 3,000 years. Jews, Christians and Muslims are able to pray and live in the city.


Talking Points



1. Jerusalem has been the center of the Jewish world for 3,000 years.
King David established the city as the capital of ancient Israel, and his son Solomon built the First Jewish Temple on what became known as the Temple Mount. There are more than 850 references to Jerusalem in the Hebrew Bible and innumerable references to the city throughout more than 2,000 years of postbiblical literature.


2. Israel reunified Jerusalem in 1967, granted all religions access to holy sites.
Between 1948 to 1967, Jordan denied any access to Israeli Jews to the Old City or the Western Wall. After the 1967 Six-Day War, Israel immediately abolished the restrictions on access to the city, allowing people from all faiths to worship at their holy places.


3. Congress: Jerusalem is Israel's capital.
Congress has regularly recognized Jerusalem as Israel’s capital in various resolutions and law.

http://www.aipac.org/issues/jerusalem