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bemildred

(90,061 posts)
Tue Jul 29, 2014, 08:32 AM Jul 2014

The Gaza trap

Whatever the achievements of Israel's superior army and its anti-missile systems, and however appalling the devastation of Gaza, Hamas will survive, if only because Israel wants it to. The alternative — jihadist anarchy that would turn Gaza into a Palestinian Somalia — is simply too unbearable to contemplate.

Hamas leader Khaled Meshal's boastful rhetoric cannot hide the fact that Hamas's military power has been dealt a devastating blow. But, unless Israel is ready to pay an exceptionally high price in terms of its international standing by occupying Gaza and destroying its entire military hierarchy and arsenal, Hamas can still claim victory, having survived yet another onslaught by Israel's colossal military machine.

The superior power in an asymmetrical conflict always has a problem defining its objectives. In this case, Israel aspires to achieve "quiet" with few enough Palestinian civilian casualties to minimize international criticism. But the failure to achieve this goal is precisely where the superior power is defeated in asymmetrical conflicts. Moreover, "quiet" is not a strategic goal; nor is Israel's way of pursuing it — a war every two or three years — particularly convincing.

The real question is this: Assuming that Israel gets the quiet that it wants, what does it intend to do with Gaza in the future? And what does it intend to do with the Palestinian problem of which Gaza is an integral part?

http://www.cnbc.com/id/101873291

55 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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The Gaza trap (Original Post) bemildred Jul 2014 OP
Op-Ed: IDF, Don’t Take Your Foot Off the Gas Pedal bemildred Jul 2014 #1
This message was self-deleted by its author ann--- Jul 2014 #11
Gaza Cease-Fire: Unlike Iraq, Iran, Libya and N. Korea, Israel Has Impunity from Defying UNSC bemildred Jul 2014 #2
The Children of War: A Humanitarian Catastrophe Unfolds in Gaza bemildred Jul 2014 #3
Zionism and Its Discontents bemildred Jul 2014 #4
Violence in Gaza as world calls for truce bemildred Jul 2014 #5
Teen girl 'live tweets Gaza bomb attack' bemildred Jul 2014 #6
Danish PM refuses to sign Nordic letter on Gaza: media bemildred Jul 2014 #7
Could Israeli soldiers, not civilians, be the target of the attack tunnels? bemildred Jul 2014 #8
United Nations Workers Killed as Israel Steps Up Gaza Attacks bemildred Jul 2014 #9
Israel targets UNRWA car, kills 2 bemildred Jul 2014 #35
Hits the nail on the head oberliner Jul 2014 #10
Well, we've known that for a long time. bemildred Jul 2014 #15
I liked Cohen's piece too, very close to my sentiments. nt bemildred Jul 2014 #16
Not really solution-focused though oberliner Jul 2014 #29
No, just hand-wringing. bemildred Jul 2014 #31
Palestinians 'offer one-day truce' in Gaza bemildred Jul 2014 #12
Israel brushes aside 24-hour truce offer as 'not serious' bemildred Jul 2014 #26
Hamas rejects cease-fire proposal in Gaza bemildred Jul 2014 #43
Belgium Urges Labeling Israeli Settlements’ Products bemildred Jul 2014 #13
. nt bemildred Jul 2014 #14
What a show down, Bibi is going for no resistance and permanent occupation: Jefferson23 Jul 2014 #17
He is in deep shit, I think. That's an interesting piece. bemildred Jul 2014 #18
Yea, when things are not going well, and they are not, you can't know what other Jefferson23 Jul 2014 #19
Casualty figures are hard to come by, but the drift I get is much too close to even, bemildred Jul 2014 #20
I haven't read anything yet on additional pressure coming from the White House and it is Jefferson23 Jul 2014 #21
Palestinian journalists under fire bemildred Jul 2014 #22
Pull out troops or give army new mission, IDF officer says bemildred Jul 2014 #23
Bibi the idiot, only surpassed by his cabinet. n/t Jefferson23 Jul 2014 #38
That is an interesting comment, isn't it? nt bemildred Jul 2014 #46
Yes. I guess the thing to watch for now is if Bibi agrees with Kerry's help ( which he allegedly Jefferson23 Jul 2014 #47
The first thing is to stop the shooting. bemildred Jul 2014 #49
I agree. I have, like many people, have more questions for the latest round of violence too. Jefferson23 Jul 2014 #50
Congress Throws Full Support Behind Israel As Gaza Death Toll Passes 1,000 bemildred Jul 2014 #24
Israel orders residents of Zaytoun in central Gaza to evacuate bemildred Jul 2014 #25
Authority: Gaza power plant damage needs at least year to repair Jefferson23 Jul 2014 #27
Netanyahu convinces Israelis of existential threat Jefferson23 Jul 2014 #28
The answers to the questions this article poses are obvious. stranger81 Jul 2014 #30
Yup Shaktimaan Jul 2014 #51
Nothing secret about it. stranger81 Jul 2014 #52
Oh great. Shaktimaan Jul 2014 #53
Yes, it has, as a matter of fact. stranger81 Jul 2014 #54
You sure? Shaktimaan Jul 2014 #55
Israel asks for US help on Gaza truce bemildred Jul 2014 #32
Susan Rice is 'dismayed' at Israeli criticism of John Kerry cease-fire attempt that left the White H bemildred Jul 2014 #33
Israeli TV says 'all parties agree to Gaza ceasefire' bemildred Jul 2014 #34
Israeli PM has asked for US help on Gaza truce: John Kerry bemildred Jul 2014 #36
Kerry shrugs off Israeli criticism bemildred Jul 2014 #40
Report: Israel and Hamas reach agreement to end Gaza hostilities bemildred Jul 2014 #37
Better than nothing. n/t Jefferson23 Jul 2014 #39
Israeli tv retracts report of Gaza ceasefire bemildred Jul 2014 #41
I hope it stops, now. n/t Jefferson23 Jul 2014 #44
Kerry: Netanyahu Asked Me to Help Broker Gaza Ceasefire bemildred Jul 2014 #45
Jewish Leader Lambasts Israel's Spokesman for Brazilian Criticism bemildred Jul 2014 #42
Analysis || Egyptian cease-fire proposal could end up pressuring Israel, not Hamas Jefferson23 Jul 2014 #48

bemildred

(90,061 posts)
1. Op-Ed: IDF, Don’t Take Your Foot Off the Gas Pedal
Tue Jul 29, 2014, 08:34 AM
Jul 2014

In recent weeks Israel has been engaged in a real boxing match with Hamas in Gaza. This is the third round in which we are called to face an enemy who will stop at nothing and will attack Israel’s vulnerable point which is - the lives of its citizens.

Israel is now at a decisive turning point and must choose between two options: Either it will deliver a crushing knockout that will destroy Hamas to the point where it will be unable to stand up on its feet in the political and military arena.

Or it will agree to a ceasefire that will enable a ruthless and merciless enemy to recover and rearm.

A ceasefire will grant Hamas terrorists time to reorganize, rearm and equip themselves anew, it will give them time to hide and move the ammunition arsenals that have now been exposed. It will also give them more time to produce new weapons and more time for the global media to de-legitimize Israel which would ultimately dwarf the achievement of Operation Protective Edge.

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Articles/Article.aspx/15414

Response to bemildred (Reply #1)

bemildred

(90,061 posts)
2. Gaza Cease-Fire: Unlike Iraq, Iran, Libya and N. Korea, Israel Has Impunity from Defying UNSC
Tue Jul 29, 2014, 08:40 AM
Jul 2014

The United Nations Security Council is theoretically a sort of sovereign in international law. If it designates a regime like that of Gaddafi in Libya as a threat to international peace, it can deputize the nations of the world to remove it. One major exception to UNSC authority is Israel, which routinely thumbs its nose at the world body while suffering no sanctions or other punishment.

Defying the UNSC can be extremely dangerous and costly. It demanded that Iraq dismantle its chemical, biological and nuclear weapons programs and destroy any stockpiles of such unconventional weapons, in a series of resolutions after the Gulf War. The Bush administration alleged that Iraq’s President Saddam Hussein had declined completely to destroy those stockpiles and so was in violation of international law, and therefore claimed a sort of indirect sanction from the UNSC to invade and occupy Iraq in order to finish the job. (Unfortunately for Bush, the Baath regime in Iraq had in fact destroyed the stockpiles; this had not stopped Bush propagandists from continuing to this day to cite Saddam Hussein’s alleged defiance of the UNSC as a justification for the US war on Iraq.) Saddam Hussein was hanged in December 2006.

The UNSC demanded a decade or so ago that Iran mothball its civilian, peaceful nuclear enrichment program, aimed at gaining the capacity to fuel nuclear reactors to produce electricity. Iran refused, citing the pledge in the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty that guarantees all countries the right to close the fuel cycle. (Note that Israel went for broke to develop a nuclear warhead, of which it has several hundred, and never suffered any sanctions at all.)

As a result of the UNSC resolutions against Iran, the Obama administration was emboldened to impose a financial boycott on Iran, having it kicked off all the major banking exchanges and making it difficult or impossible for Iran to get paid for its petroleum. Then the US went around strong-arming countries like South Korea in a bid to force them to stop importing Iranian petroleum. A simple US congressional resolution would probably not have given the US the legitimacy to pursue this financial blockade against Iran, but the UNSC resolutions were much more persuasive, combined with US threats to sanction companies that traded with Iran.

http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/unlike_iraq_iran_libya_nkorea_israel_impunity_defying_unsc_gaza_20140729

bemildred

(90,061 posts)
3. The Children of War: A Humanitarian Catastrophe Unfolds in Gaza
Tue Jul 29, 2014, 08:50 AM
Jul 2014

Ahmed is hungry. Eyes closed, he clutches his mother's breast and drinks, oblivious to everything around him. He ignores the rattling of the ceiling fan, dangling precariously. And he doesn't notice the dull thuds that cause the walls to shake and his mother, Marwat al-Asasma, to cringe. Sometimes his body trembles, and he balls his tiny hands into fists.

Her son now weighs a little over three kilograms (6.6 lbs.), says al-Asasma, 18, and he is healthy and gaining weight. She sounds as if she can hardly believe what she is saying. Ahmed is just over two weeks old -- born in the night when the Israelis sent their first tanks to the Gaza Strip border.

Ahmed is both a child of the war and one of its victims. Ten days after he was born, he lost his father, his grandparents and his home. His mother doesn't know how much is left of the family house. She remembers only dust and smoke, but is trying to forget even that.

She and her siblings used to live in Shejaiya, a suburb east of Gaza City. Now, though, no one lives there anymore. Shejaiya, where entire city blocks were demolished, now lies in ruins. The Israeli army, after identifying Shejaiya as a Hamas stronghold and a center of resistance, sent in tanks and combat units. At least 100 Palestinians were killed there on the Sunday before last. The exact casualty figures are unknown, but the Red Cross expects that there are significantly more dead, people who were burned to death, crushed or buried under the rubble of collapsed buildings, some of which were still smoldering days later. The ongoing fighting has made it difficult to recover the bodies.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/suffering-in-gaza-strip-increases-as-war-drags-on-a-983260.html#ref=rss

bemildred

(90,061 posts)
4. Zionism and Its Discontents
Tue Jul 29, 2014, 08:53 AM
Jul 2014

---

I am a Zionist because the story of my forebears convinces me that Jews needed the homeland voted into existence by United Nations Resolution 181 of 1947, calling for the establishment of two states — one Jewish, one Arab — in Mandate Palestine. I am a Zionist who believes in the words of Israel’s founding charter of 1948 declaring that the nascent state would be based “on freedom, justice and peace as envisaged by the prophets of Israel.”
Continue reading the main story
Continue reading the main story

What I cannot accept, however, is the perversion of Zionism that has seen the inexorable growth of a Messianic Israeli nationalism claiming all the land between the Mediterranean and the Jordan River; that has, for almost a half-century now, produced the systematic oppression of another people in the West Bank; that has led to the steady expansion of Israeli settlements on the very West Bank land of any Palestinian state; that isolates moderate Palestinians like Salam Fayyad in the name of divide-and-rule; that pursues policies that will make it impossible to remain a Jewish and democratic state; that seeks tactical advantage rather than the strategic breakthrough of a two-state peace; that blockades Gaza with 1.8 million people locked in its prison and is then surprised by the periodic eruptions of the inmates; and that responds disproportionately to attack in a way that kills hundreds of children.

This, as a Zionist, I cannot accept. Jews, above all people, know what oppression is. Children over millennia were the transmission belt of Jewish survival, the object of what the Israeli novelist Amos Oz and his daughter Fania Oz-Salzberger have called “the intergenerational quizzing that ensures the passing of the torch.” No argument, no Palestinian outrage or subterfuge, can gloss over what Jewish failure the killing of children in such numbers represents.

The Israeli case for the bombardment of Gaza could be foolproof. If Benjamin Netanyahu had made a good-faith effort to find common cause with Palestinian moderates for peace and been rebuffed, it would be. He has not. Hamas is vile. I would happily see it destroyed. But Hamas is also the product of a situation that Israel has reinforced rather than sought to resolve.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/30/opinion/roger-cohen-zionism-and-israels-war-with-hamas-in-gaza.html?partner=rss&emc=rss&_r=0

bemildred

(90,061 posts)
5. Violence in Gaza as world calls for truce
Tue Jul 29, 2014, 09:01 AM
Jul 2014

GAZA CITY, Palestinian Territories (AFP) ― Bloodshed in and around Gaza surged Tuesday with strikes killing 13 Palestinians, a day after five Israeli soldiers died, shattering hopes for an end to three weeks of violence.

It was a bloody start to the three-day Muslim holiday of Eid al-Fitr which began on Monday, with international demands for an end to the fighting falling on increasingly deaf ears.

“In the name of humanity, the violence must stop,” pleaded U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon after holding long talks with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, urging him to “stop the violence” and heed international calls for a cease-fire.

But Netanyahu appeared determined to press the offensive.

http://www.koreaherald.com/view.php?ud=20140729000524

bemildred

(90,061 posts)
6. Teen girl 'live tweets Gaza bomb attack'
Tue Jul 29, 2014, 09:04 AM
Jul 2014

A 16-year-old girl in Gaza has apparently live-tweeted a bomb attack by Israel.

Farah Baker, was at home with family when the bombardment began. She then seemingly tweeted throughout the night about the sound of bombs and rockets falling nearby, posting comments, audio clips and video footage on social media - including pictures of her six-year-old sister.

Her tweets are not geo-tagged, but they appear to be legitimate. It is believed she has been blogging and tweeting about the current situation in Gaza for the past three weeks.

“This is in my area. I can't stop crying. I might die tonight,” read one message that has been shared more than 10,000 times.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/womens-politics/10997610/Teen-Palestinian-girl-on-Twitter-live-tweets-Gaza-bomb-attack.html

bemildred

(90,061 posts)
7. Danish PM refuses to sign Nordic letter on Gaza: media
Tue Jul 29, 2014, 09:05 AM
Jul 2014

COPENHAGEN, July 29 -- Denmark's Prime Minister Helle Thorning-Schmidt has declined to sign a joint statement with her Nordic fellows that strongly criticizes Israel's actions in Gaza, local media reported Tuesday.

The social democratic leaders of Sweden, Norway, Iceland and Finland all attached their names to a letter which "condemns Israel's use of disproportionate violence" and calls on Israel to end its blockade of Gaza and occupation of the West Bank.

The message also calls on Israel to "stop its settlement policies."

However, as the only social democratic party leader who is also the head of a national government in the Nordic region, Thorning-Schmidt has chosen not to sign on to the strongly-worded message, according to the Danish news agency Ritzau.

http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/n/2014/0729/c90777-8762460.html

bemildred

(90,061 posts)
8. Could Israeli soldiers, not civilians, be the target of the attack tunnels?
Tue Jul 29, 2014, 09:14 AM
Jul 2014

Hamas operatives aim primarily to abduct soldiers and not to penetrate into civilian communities along the border with Gaza, a senior intelligence source said Monday.

“The central objective is to kidnap a soldier,” he said, “to replicate the success of Gilad Shalit.”

The assertion was borne out hours after the interview, when it became clear that a squad of Hamas gunmen had infiltrated into Israel Monday evening, near Kibbutz Nahal Oz, and directed their attack at an army post south of the kibbutz.

The Hamas squad launched an anti-tank missile at an army barracks adjacent to an IDF watchtower and then stormed the position, attempting to drag one of the soldiers into a tunnel. The soldiers in the tower, an army spokesperson said, “identified an attempt to abduct a soldier,” and opened fire, killing one of the attackers.

http://www.timesofisrael.com/soldiers-not-civilians-are-tunnel-infiltration-goals-says-senior-intelligence-source/

bemildred

(90,061 posts)
9. United Nations Workers Killed as Israel Steps Up Gaza Attacks
Tue Jul 29, 2014, 09:17 AM
Jul 2014

wo employees of the United Nation's main agency in Gaza were killed on Tuesday as Israel stepped up its attacks on the enclave. Chris Gunness, spokesman for the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East (UNRWA), declined to provide any further details on the incident. Six U.N. workers have been killed during the ongoing offensive. Israel's nearly three-week incursion into the Gaza Strip has been punctuated by strikes on U.N. facilities and civilian centers. The U.N. has said Israel may have committed war crimes by shelling hospitals and homes where it claims Hamas is hiding personnel and rockets.

Bombing was especially heavy overnight, according to NBC News journalists in Gaza. The Palestinian death toll stands at 1,156, with 71 people killed on Tuesday. Fifty-three Israeli soldiers and three civilians have been killed since the beginning of the operation.

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/middle-east-unrest/united-nations-workers-killed-israel-steps-gaza-attacks-n167346

bemildred

(90,061 posts)
35. Israel targets UNRWA car, kills 2
Tue Jul 29, 2014, 01:29 PM
Jul 2014

Two people were killed on Tuesday by Israeli shelling of a United Nations Relief and Works Agency car in the northern part of the Gaza Strip, a Palestinian Health Ministry official said.

"The shelling left medical doctor Bashir al-Haggar dead along with his brother, Samir," Health Ministry spokesman Ashraf al-Qodra told Anadolu Agency.

Al-Qodra said earlier that ten Palestinians were killed by Israeli strikes on the northern Gaza Strip Jabalia camp.

United Nations personnel and Gaza's medical staff are proving not immune to Israeli strikes as Israel's shelling of the Gaza Strip, on that has been ongoing since July 7, has targeted these categories too.

http://www.aa.com.tr/en/rss/366192--israel-targets-unrwa-car-kills-2

 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
10. Hits the nail on the head
Tue Jul 29, 2014, 09:19 AM
Jul 2014

From the article:

There is only one way out of the Gaza tragedy that can provide justice to its many victims: The parties to the conflict and the regional actors now vying to act as mediators must leverage the ongoing calamity into a grand peace agenda.

This would mean launching a Marshall Plan to upgrade Gaza's infrastructure and improve social conditions. It would also entail lifting the blockade and opening Gaza to the world. The price Hamas would have to pay is complete disarmament and demilitarization of Gaza under international supervision, with Abbas's Palestinian Authority controlling the border crossings into Israel and Egypt.

Simultaneously, negotiations for a two-state solution should resume, with an unequivocal commitment by the United States and the other members of the so-called Middle East Quartet (the United Nations, the European Union, and Russia) to use all possible influence on the parties to prevent another failure.

<End of citation>

This is the answer.

bemildred

(90,061 posts)
15. Well, we've known that for a long time.
Tue Jul 29, 2014, 09:39 AM
Jul 2014

But Hamas is having a good time Bloodying Bibi's nose, and Bibi is not about to quit with a bloody nose, so I expect it will go on for some time yet.

 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
29. Not really solution-focused though
Tue Jul 29, 2014, 11:57 AM
Jul 2014

That's what I like best about your initial OP.

Regrettably, it's a solution not likely to be embraced by the powers that be.

bemildred

(90,061 posts)
31. No, just hand-wringing.
Tue Jul 29, 2014, 01:08 PM
Jul 2014

Yeah, the solution has been laying there pretty much like that for some time now.

bemildred

(90,061 posts)
12. Palestinians 'offer one-day truce' in Gaza
Tue Jul 29, 2014, 09:30 AM
Jul 2014

A senior Palestinian Liberation Organisation official has said that all Palestinian factions, including Hamas and Islamic Jihad, have offered a 24-hour ceasefire in Gaza and "looked favourably" on a further two-day extension.

Yasser Abed Rabbo, a PLO executive committee member, said on Tuesday that the offer was agreed by all Palestinian factions and that a unified delegation could be sent to Cairo to talk about the next steps.

"The factions, including Hamas and Jihad, are prepared for a 24-hour truce and Israel will be held the responsible if it doesn't accept the truce as well," he said. "There is a proposal from the UN to extend the truce to 72 hours. And we look favorably upon that.

"All groups, including Hamas and Jihad, have agreed to send a unified delegation, which includes representatives from all of the Palestinian parties, to Cairo to talk about the next period.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2014/07/palestinians-offer-24-hour-truce-gaza-2014729123737270157.html

bemildred

(90,061 posts)
13. Belgium Urges Labeling Israeli Settlements’ Products
Tue Jul 29, 2014, 09:35 AM
Jul 2014

Belgium advised retailers on Tuesday to clearly label the origin of products made in Israeli settlements that are in occupied territories where Palestinians seek statehood.

The non-binding recommendation has nothing to do with escalating conflict between Israel and Palestinian militants in the Gaza Strip, the Belgian Economics Ministry said, noting that Britain and Denmark already had similar labeling in place.

“It's a non-binding advice to state on labels that products originating from occupied territories come from there,” a ministry spokeswoman said. “We don't see this as a sanction against Israel, but EU rules stipulate that consumers have to be informed of the origins of products.”

The ministry planned to send a letter to retail federations Tuesday recommending the use of such labels. Belgian retail federation Comeos and the Israeli Embassy in Brussels said they would not comment before the letter was issued.

http://www.voanews.com/content/belgium-urges-labeling-israeli-settlements-products/1967198.html

Jefferson23

(30,099 posts)
17. What a show down, Bibi is going for no resistance and permanent occupation:
Tue Jul 29, 2014, 09:51 AM
Jul 2014
Netanyahu's vision for Gaza: Internationally supervised demilitarization

The prime minister is in talks with world leaders over a mechanism that would ensure that funds and materials allocated toward rebuilding Gaza don't sponsor terrorism, Israeli official says.

By Barak Ravid | 10:20 29.07.14

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu wants to establish an international framework for demilitarizing the Gaza Strip, supervising entry of people and goods into the enclave and preventing smuggling, a senior Israeli official said Monday. This mechanism will oversee the use of funds, building materials and arms in Gaza, in order to ensure that they are not used for terror.

According to the official, Netanyahu asked several foreign leaders for ideas on how the international community could assist in implementing these goals.

“Dismantling the tunnels is a first and necessary step toward demilitarizing the Strip,” Netanyahu said in a statement to the media on Monday. “A mechanism for preventing the rearmament of terror organizations and a demilitarization of Gaza has to be part of any solution. The international community should forcefully insist on this.”

Netanyahu delineated three areas in which international supervision can be involved. The first addresses Israel’s concerns that when hostilities cease, an international fund will be established, through which billions of dollars will be channeled from Arab states and Western countries toward rebuilding Gaza.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/.premium-1.607768

bemildred

(90,061 posts)
18. He is in deep shit, I think. That's an interesting piece.
Tue Jul 29, 2014, 10:00 AM
Jul 2014

I'm not going to comment today much, a lot of things are still murky.

However, Gaza must be rebuilt, lest Israel have it's own little Somalia next door. Bibi does not want to pay for it, as he has to pay for the war already, though no doubt the US Congress will help generously.

Jefferson23

(30,099 posts)
19. Yea, when things are not going well, and they are not, you can't know what other
Tue Jul 29, 2014, 10:03 AM
Jul 2014

shit will hit the fan...but you know it's coming.

bemildred

(90,061 posts)
20. Casualty figures are hard to come by, but the drift I get is much too close to even,
Tue Jul 29, 2014, 10:14 AM
Jul 2014

once you leave out the civilians. This is starting to look like the Second Lebanon War (2006).

Jefferson23

(30,099 posts)
21. I haven't read anything yet on additional pressure coming from the White House and it is
Tue Jul 29, 2014, 10:26 AM
Jul 2014

worrisome about Iran and Hizbullah.

bemildred

(90,061 posts)
22. Palestinian journalists under fire
Tue Jul 29, 2014, 10:27 AM
Jul 2014

Following 22 days of a conflict in which 1,100 Palestinians as well as 47 Israeli soldiers and three civilians have been killed, the Israeli Defence Forces at dawn on 29 July, bombed the headquarters of Al-Aqsa TV, the Hamas channel, located in the Nasser neighbourhood, northeast of Gaza City. Despite the destruction of some equipment and material, the station continued broadcasting via clandestine studios.

Forty-five minutes later, the Hamas radio station, Al-Aqsa, came under fire. Located in the Al-Shourouq building, in the Rimal neighbourhood of downtown Gaza City, the station went off the air after the attack. No employees were wounded.

The building houses a number of media bureaus, many of them damaged. The offices of Al-Aqsa TV in Burj Al-Shourouq had been hit by Israeli rocket fire two days earlier, on 27 July.

As the IDF Operation “Protective Edge” proceeds, a rocket hit the 15th floor of the building in Burj Al-Shurouq, in the Al-Rimal neighbourhood of Gaza City, that houses the station, according to Sa’ad Radwan, the station’s director general. The attack caused considerable physical damage including the destruction of some station equipment.

http://en.rsf.org/palestine-palestinian-media-including-hamas-29-07-2014,46716.html

bemildred

(90,061 posts)
23. Pull out troops or give army new mission, IDF officer says
Tue Jul 29, 2014, 10:31 AM
Jul 2014

After three weeks of fighting in Gaza, the Israeli military has attained the goals set out for it, and the country’s political leadership needs to give it a new mission or pull troops out, a senior military official said Tuesday.

The unnamed officer, quoted in Israeli media reports, said it was unlikely Israel had found or would find every tunnel in use by Hamas to infiltrate into Israel — the stated goal of the ground operation — but the army had destroyed “the ability to use the tunnels.”

“We have reached the goals that were defined for us,” the officer said in media reports. “The political leadership needs to make a decision if we are going in further or pulling out of the Gaza Strip.”

The statement came a day after ceasefire efforts seemed to be pushed back as a several-day easing of hostilities gave way to heavy fighting, with multiple casualties on both sides. On Monday night, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said the country should be prepared for a prolonged conflict.

http://www.timesofisrael.com/pull-out-troops-or-give-army-new-mission-idf-officer-says/

Jefferson23

(30,099 posts)
47. Yes. I guess the thing to watch for now is if Bibi agrees with Kerry's help ( which he allegedly
Tue Jul 29, 2014, 01:54 PM
Jul 2014

reached out for) what that looks like, and if Hamas rejects it and why.

bemildred

(90,061 posts)
49. The first thing is to stop the shooting.
Tue Jul 29, 2014, 03:41 PM
Jul 2014

Once that happens there will be recriminations and investigations. The main thing I would want to know is whether anything substantive is addressed as a consequence this time.

And I also am curious about Hamas, in Gaza, what will they settle for? Will they get anything? They are really in control, weak as they are, at the moment. Nobody can make them stop shooting rockets, until they run out, and nobody really wants to go down in the tunnels after them.

Jefferson23

(30,099 posts)
50. I agree. I have, like many people, have more questions for the latest round of violence too.
Tue Jul 29, 2014, 05:55 PM
Jul 2014

Namely, what will change, and will it be for the greater good..has all this death
and devastation brought the powers involved a means to bring this to an end
once and for all? I too want to see what fall out there will be from all
the investigations. I do not see how Israel skates away from this like last
time, how many Goldstones can you rely on at the conclusion of these
reports and no one cries fowl?

The agreement to cease violence that Israel wanted no part of by Kerry, was that
rejected because they saw it as a means for Hamas to negotiate big ticket
items for information on the tunnels? If so, Israel will do all it can to diminish that
possibility, even though they know they can't penetrate it in the way
that would satisfy them. So, will the cease fire allow for penetration of
the tunnels without concessions from Israel that Hamas will agree to?
I say, hell no. Worrisome is, at what point Nasrallah and Iran would
enter the equation, if at all..no idea but they have gone on the record.

Meshal agrees to disarm, so how is it possible to reject this? Unless you are
willing to take the chance that you'll destroy enough of Gaza that brings the
people to their knees to disown Hamas..there seems to be an unclear affirmative
the people of Gaza will do that. They have lived in such horrific conditions, and
from what source were they to draw hope? Abbas, the US, the Arab League, Israel?

So what is left for a strategy that keeps the IDF from coming further into Gaza
and the tunnels with their booby traps? The IDF are only at the the border,
for now, they have not gone in further. The tunnels are evidently more sophisticated
than they were led to believe. It is striking that Hamas has an edge, but who
will help them parlay that into an agreement. Say what you will about them, but
I will go on the record, they look to be the one right now who may work for a lasting
deal. I would think their argument later regarding the settlements could be, look, you
have the info on the tunnels, we're disarmed, tell us why again the WB is
for your state? Those settlements just so happen to involve the precious land
and water resources..really< no coincidence there?

If Hamas does not get support by some influential means, and Israel gets enough
of what is reflected in that OP I posted earlier...about Bibi's plan for
permanent occupation? I'm sure you remember Friedman's piece many years
ago, how Gaza was going to be the Dubai on the Mediterranean, well we all
know how that turned out for Gaza. If Bibi gets his way, that same end result could
very well be the future of all of Palestine.

I don't want to imagine the types of resistance that could rise up from that, but
if I had to, I would venture Hamas will pale in comparison.




bemildred

(90,061 posts)
24. Congress Throws Full Support Behind Israel As Gaza Death Toll Passes 1,000
Tue Jul 29, 2014, 10:36 AM
Jul 2014

WASHINGTON (AP) — As the war in Gaza escalates, U.S. lawmakers are pressing the Obama administration to take no action that puts pressure on Israel to halt its military campaign against Hamas.

Many even have criticized the administration's effort to stop violence that has killed more than 1,100 Palestinians, mostly civilians, and more than 40 Israeli soldiers and three civilians this month.

"At times like this, people try to isolate Israel," House Speaker John Boehner, R-Ohio, said Monday. "We are here to stand with Israel, not just as a broker or observer but as a strong partner and a trusted ally.

"What does that mean? Well, it doesn't mean issuing vague, on-the-one-hand, on-the-other-hand statements. No, it means backing up our words and showing solidarity with our friend."

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/congess-full-support-israel

bemildred

(90,061 posts)
25. Israel orders residents of Zaytoun in central Gaza to evacuate
Tue Jul 29, 2014, 10:37 AM
Jul 2014

GAZA CITY (Ma'an) -- Israel ordered residents of Zaytoun in central Gaza to evacuate, adding to more than 400,000 people who have been issued evacuation orders in the last two days.

http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=716804

Jefferson23

(30,099 posts)
27. Authority: Gaza power plant damage needs at least year to repair
Tue Jul 29, 2014, 11:30 AM
Jul 2014
GAZA CITY (Ma'an) -- The only power plant supplying electricity to the Gaza Strip was knocked out of commission by Israeli shelling and will need at least a year to repair, deputy director of the energy authority in the Palestinian territory said Tuesday.

"Gaza's sole power plant has stopped working due to Israeli shelling last night, which damaged the steam generator and later hit the fuel tanks which set them on fire," Fathi al-Sheikh Khalil told AFP.

The power authority also said that the damage could take up to a year to fix, meaning that already severe power outages in the besieged coastal enclave could be worsened even further.

As a result of an eight-year Israeli siege on Gaza that limits the supply of fuel into the Strip, power is only allotted in eight-hour stretches, with frequent cuts.

http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=716829

Jefferson23

(30,099 posts)
28. Netanyahu convinces Israelis of existential threat
Tue Jul 29, 2014, 11:34 AM
Jul 2014
On July 21, I claimed that Israel’s political leadership was suffering an abysmal failure in its campaign to win over Palestinian public opinion, or what the defense minister calls being “etched in their consciousness.” More than 1,000 dead, 6,200 wounded, and tens of thousands of people homeless and cut off from water and electricity failed to persuade Hamas to raise the white flag of surrender. Hamas members opposed to the reconciliation with Fatah are taking credit for the growing number of dead and wounded, for stopping foreign airlines from flying to Israel’s main airport and for the enormous toll this campaign is taking on Israel, both economically and on its image. Protest marches by thousands of West Bank Palestinians to the Qalandiya checkpoint, the uprising in East Jerusalem and demonstrations by the Israeli Arab sector all indicate growing support for the struggle Hamas is waging against Israel.


Even if the Israeli establishment is displeased with this campaign's success over the Palestinian consciousness, it can take comfort in its impressive achievements in Israeli perceptions. Reports and commentary in the local media (and also to some degree in the foreign media), as well as bumper stickers, billboards and especially the dialogue on the social networks testify to the government's policies enjoying overwhelming support among the general public. Across the political spectrum, the Israeli public is lapping up the official line that Operation Protective Edge is a “war of no choice.” According to this narrative, the hundreds of infants and children buried beneath the ruins of buildings in Gaza (especially those used to hide tunnels or Hamas fighters and arms) are a pardonable necessity that cannot be condemned, as the bombing spared hundreds of Israeli infants and children from suffering a similar fate. Framing it this way justifies the deaths of 43 Israeli soldiers and four civilians as of today, July 28, and transforms the act of abiding the sirens and rushing to shelters into a means of contributing to the war effort.

One prominent example of this trend can be found on the Facebook page of popular radio and TV host Avri Gilad. In a status update, this journalist, who represents the left on a radio show, the Army Radio show "The Last Word," shared a text that he described as “the most brilliant article I’ve read over the course of this war. It put things in perspective for me.” Gilad sent a “deep thank you” to the author, Guy Aloni, for helping him to understand that the State of Israel was faced with nothing less than an existential threat for the first time since the War of Independence.

This status update earned Gilad more than 19,000 “shares” to date (I can’t remember ever seeing that many “shares” for anything else) and an even higher number of “likes.” In his update he presents a horror scenario that has since become a legacy for the Israeli masses. He says that the tunnels were actually the “infrastructure for a ground invasion,” and that Hamas planned to use them to send thousands of its troops into Israel, dressed in Israeli uniforms, to fire hundreds or even thousands of rockets into the center of the country and paralyze Israel's ability to organize against the invasions.

Read more: http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2014/07/israel-protective-edge-right-left-support-avri-gilad.html#ixzz38s8Izfsf

stranger81

(2,345 posts)
30. The answers to the questions this article poses are obvious.
Tue Jul 29, 2014, 12:54 PM
Jul 2014

(1) What does Israel intend to do with Gaza in the future? Expel all the Palestinians to another country, perhaps Egypt, and resettle the entire territory with Jews only. See Moshe Deiglin's (Final) Gaza Solution.

(2) What does it intend to do with the Palestinians? Kill as many as possible, and expel the rest to other countries.


Shaktimaan

(5,397 posts)
51. Yup
Wed Jul 30, 2014, 12:08 AM
Jul 2014

It's a super secret plan that only you know about. Obviously.

Btw you missed the point of those questions. I recommend reading the whole article. Ben ami is an insightful individual.

Shaktimaan

(5,397 posts)
55. You sure?
Thu Jul 31, 2014, 10:18 PM
Jul 2014

Because all those stories seemed to be about a single person who has the reputation of being extremely non-representative of what most Israelis and Knesset members think.

That's all you've got? A single extremist? And you believe that he dictates Israeli policy because...?

bemildred

(90,061 posts)
32. Israel asks for US help on Gaza truce
Tue Jul 29, 2014, 01:26 PM
Jul 2014

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has asked for fresh US help in trying to broker a ceasefire in Gaza, top US diplomat John Kerry says.

"Last night we talked, and the prime minister talked to me about an idea and a possibility of a ceasefire," Kerry said on Tuesday.

"He raised it with me, as he has consistently," he said, adding that Netanyahu had said he "would embrace a ceasefire that permits Israel to protect itself against the tunnels and obviously not be disadvantaged for the great sacrifice they have made thus far".

http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2014/07/30/israel-asks-us-help-gaza-truce

bemildred

(90,061 posts)
33. Susan Rice is 'dismayed' at Israeli criticism of John Kerry cease-fire attempt that left the White H
Tue Jul 29, 2014, 01:28 PM
Jul 2014
- Secretary of State John Kerry tried to negotiate a long-term cease-fire between Israel and Hamas last week but was unsuccessful
- A chorus of naysayers emerged in the Israeli press, slamming him for meddling and trying to slow down Israeli advances in Gaza
- One journalist compared Kerry to a space alien who is unfamiliar with the dynamics on the ground
- US National Security Adviser Susan Rice and Israeli ambassador to the US Ron Dermer defended Kerry on Monday, but in soft language
- Obama wants Israel to agree to an 'immediate, unconditional humanitarian cease-fire'


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2709792/Kerrys-cease-fire-aim-backed-Susan-Rice-Israeli-US-ambassador-Ron-Dermer-following-criticism-White-House-fuming.html

bemildred

(90,061 posts)
34. Israeli TV says 'all parties agree to Gaza ceasefire'
Tue Jul 29, 2014, 01:28 PM
Jul 2014

Israeli TV is reporting that "all parties" have agreed to a ceasefire in Gaza, though timings have not been decided.

http://www.itv.com/news/update/2014-07-29/israeli-tv-says-all-parties-agree-to-gaza-ceasefire/

bemildred

(90,061 posts)
36. Israeli PM has asked for US help on Gaza truce: John Kerry
Tue Jul 29, 2014, 01:30 PM
Jul 2014

WASHINGTON: Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has asked for fresh US help in trying to broker a ceasefire in Gaza, top US diplomat John Kerry said Tuesday.

"Last night we talked, and the prime minister talked to me about an idea and a possibility of a ceasefire. He raised it with me, as he has consistently," Kerry said, adding Netanyahu had said he "would embrace a ceasefire that permits Israel to protect itself against the tunnels and obviously not be disadvantaged for the great sacrifice they have made thus far."

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/international/world-news/israeli-pm-has-asked-for-us-help-on-gaza-truce-john-kerry/articleshow/39249187.cms

bemildred

(90,061 posts)
40. Kerry shrugs off Israeli criticism
Tue Jul 29, 2014, 01:39 PM
Jul 2014

WASHINGTON (AP) — Secretary of State John Kerry said Tuesday widespread criticism of his efforts to win a cease-fire between Israel and Hamas don't worry him and said he will continue to work toward that goal because Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu asked him to.

"I have taken hits before in politics, I am not worried about it," he told reporters at the State Department. "This is not about me."

Kerry said he is convinced that a humanitarian cease-fire in Gaza followed by negotiations to resolve the underlying causes of the conflict is "more appropriate" than continuing to wage war.

"I am not going to worry about personal attacks," he said, adding that he and President Barack Obama are convinced "it is more appropriate to try to resolve the underlying issues at a negotiating table than to continue a tit-for-tat of violence that will invite more violence and perhaps a greater downward spiral which would be much more difficult to recover from."

http://www.chron.com/news/politics/article/Kerry-shrugs-off-Israeli-criticism-5654068.php

bemildred

(90,061 posts)
45. Kerry: Netanyahu Asked Me to Help Broker Gaza Ceasefire
Tue Jul 29, 2014, 01:43 PM
Jul 2014

Israeli Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu has asked for fresh US help in trying to broker a ceasefire in Gaza, top US diplomat John Kerry said Tuesday.

"Last night we talked, and the prime minister talked to me about an idea and a possibility of a ceasefire. He raised it with me, as he has consistently," Kerry said.

Netanyahu had said he "would embrace a ceasefire that permits Israel to protect itself against the tunnels and obviously not be disadvantaged for the great sacrifice they have made thus far."

The US secretary of state also dismissed a torrent of attacks in the Israeli press since his failed mediation attempt during a week-long Middle East trip last week. Many Israelis were enraged after the proposed text of the agreement - which was penned together with Hamas allies Turkey and Qatar - appeared to grant the Islamist terrorist group all of its key demands.

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/183490

bemildred

(90,061 posts)
42. Jewish Leader Lambasts Israel's Spokesman for Brazilian Criticism
Tue Jul 29, 2014, 01:41 PM
Jul 2014

Brazil's Jewish community leader apologized to the administration of Brazilian President Dilma Rousseff for statements by the spokesman of Israel's foreign ministry after Brazil recalled its envoy over the Gaza conflict.

Claudio Lottenberg, the president of the Jewish Confederation of Brazil or CONIB, an umbrella body, apologized to Aloizio Mercadante, the Rousseff administration's chief of staff, for statements made by Israel's Yigal Palmor, who called Brazil a "diplomatic dwarf" and a politically irrelevant country, and made fun of the national soccer team's recent loss by 7 to 1 to Germany in the World Cup.

http://www.brazzilmag.com/component/content/article/136-july-2014/13103-jewish-leader-lambasts-israels-spokesman-for-brazilian-criticism.html

Jefferson23

(30,099 posts)
48. Analysis || Egyptian cease-fire proposal could end up pressuring Israel, not Hamas
Tue Jul 29, 2014, 02:11 PM
Jul 2014
The Palestinian delegation’s trip to Cairo pushes Qatari and Turkish mediation to the side, but the resulting accords could be tough on Israel.

By Zvi Bar'el | 17:04 29.07.14 |

A Palestinian delegation of representatives of Fatah, Hamas and Islamic Jihad were due to arrive in Cairo Tuesday to discuss a revised version of the Egyptian cease-fire proposal. The new element in the proposal is expected to be joint Palestinian consent to the deployment of members of the Palestinian Authority's Presidential Guard on the Gazan side of the Rafah border crossing with...

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/.premium-1.607856
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