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bemildred

(90,061 posts)
Wed Jul 30, 2014, 10:56 AM Jul 2014

Deif the Islamic holy warrior unites Hamas

Some interesting bits on the cease-fire terms.

---

First, Hamas wants Israel to withdraw from the Gaza Strip in exchange for a long-term ceasefire. On Tuesday the organization agreed to a 24-hour ceasefire without preconditions, but Israel did not respond affirmatively.

After the IDF withdraws, Hamas expects to continue negotiations in Cairo over the opening of border crossings (easing, to be exact), an Israeli agreement to allow building materials into the Gaza Strip, and an expansion of fishing zone to 12 miles off the Gaza coast. These all appear to be tolerable requests. But Hamas wants something more: the opening of a seaport under international or Palestinian Authority supervision. And this, it appears, Hamas won’t receive.

The final request illustrates how difficult it is for Hamas to stop the fighting. The organization is perceived by the Palestinian and Arab public as the victor in this current battle with Israel. Tuesday’s video only deepens that perception, and it is an image Hamas will now flaunt at every opportunity.

---

In addition, we must remember that this war has made Hamas a darling of the Arab world. It has also united the disparate agendas within the organization’s leadership, finally establishing a rare moment of unity for Mashaal in Qatar, Haniyeh in Gaza, and Deif in his bunker. A ceasefire now would likely relegate Hamas again to the margins of the international agenda, along with its superhero, the mighty religious warrior Muhammad Deif.

http://www.timesofisrael.com/deif-the-islamic-holy-warrior-unites-hamas/
29 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Deif the Islamic holy warrior unites Hamas (Original Post) bemildred Jul 2014 OP
Deif the Demented...he fits that earlier group we spoke about. Saboteurs will continue to rise Jefferson23 Jul 2014 #1
It is very perverse, all around. bemildred Jul 2014 #3
I wish I knew. n/t Jefferson23 Jul 2014 #4
Deif the coward sabbat hunter Jul 2014 #8
Horrible man, he is a coward but he also incites.. saying things no one should Jefferson23 Jul 2014 #9
I'm still waiting to read the unreasonable: Jefferson23 Jul 2014 #2
The wackos are out of the woodwork: Jefferson23 Jul 2014 #5
Yup, they're everywhere. bemildred Jul 2014 #6
Lapid says Hamas commander Mohammad Deif 'a dead man' Jefferson23 Jul 2014 #7
Hamas Back in the Center of Things bemildred Jul 2014 #10
U.S., Israel Fear Pickup in Iranian Support of Hamas bemildred Jul 2014 #11
well it could appear that Bibi is being 'successful' at if nothing else undoing azurnoir Jul 2014 #18
He's a unifier, all right. bemildred Jul 2014 #21
We must defeat Hamas - next time ( Benny Morris ) Jefferson23 Jul 2014 #12
One to two years is what I read on another blog. bemildred Jul 2014 #13
I placed his opinion here along Deif. I was struck at the casual reference Jefferson23 Jul 2014 #14
Yes, I've read a good deal of "thinking" along those lines today. bemildred Jul 2014 #15
Yes...no doubt. I have a question for you, as I do not know much history of Nasrallah. Jefferson23 Jul 2014 #16
Nasrallah came up in the 90s. bemildred Jul 2014 #17
Ok, thank you very much. From the little I have read, he is a serious man...not one to Jefferson23 Jul 2014 #19
Yeah. bemildred Jul 2014 #20
For Benny Morris, who wants more sacrifice, in a big way: Jefferson23 Jul 2014 #22
Iran's Quds Force to Hamas: Turn Israeli land and sky into hell Jefferson23 Jul 2014 #23
Some bits from elsewhere (not posting a link): bemildred Jul 2014 #24
He sounds like he has a plan that he may feel is not only one that would fit his objectives but Jefferson23 Jul 2014 #25
Can't really tell. bemildred Jul 2014 #26
I keep looking for signals if Hamas will get the assistance they hope for. Jefferson23 Jul 2014 #27
Yep, or it could be bluster too. bemildred Jul 2014 #28
Yes. n/t Jefferson23 Jul 2014 #29

sabbat hunter

(6,838 posts)
8. Deif the coward
Wed Jul 30, 2014, 01:09 PM
Jul 2014

hides in a bunker, while getting Palestinians to die needlessly, trying to get them to be suicide bombers, etc.

I have an idea Deif, why not strap on a bomb and lead by example!

Jefferson23

(30,099 posts)
9. Horrible man, he is a coward but he also incites.. saying things no one should
Wed Jul 30, 2014, 01:14 PM
Jul 2014

ever say, much less think.

Jefferson23

(30,099 posts)
2. I'm still waiting to read the unreasonable:
Wed Jul 30, 2014, 11:14 AM
Jul 2014

First, Hamas wants Israel to withdraw from the Gaza Strip in exchange for a long-term ceasefire. On Tuesday the organization agreed to a 24-hour ceasefire without preconditions, but Israel did not respond affirmatively.

After the IDF withdraws, Hamas expects to continue negotiations in Cairo over the opening of border crossings (easing, to be exact), an Israeli agreement to allow building materials into the Gaza Strip, and an expansion of fishing zone to 12 miles off the Gaza coast. These all appear to be tolerable requests. But Hamas wants something more: the opening of a seaport under international or Palestinian Authority supervision. And this, it appears, Hamas won’t receive.

Read more: Deif the Islamic holy warrior unites Hamas | The Times of Israel http://www.timesofisrael.com/deif-the-islamic-holy-warrior-unites-hamas/#ixzz38xtdBozQ
Follow us: @timesofisrael on Twitter | timesofisrael on Facebook

Jefferson23

(30,099 posts)
5. The wackos are out of the woodwork:
Wed Jul 30, 2014, 12:28 PM
Jul 2014

Italian philosopher apologizes for saying he wanted to 'shoot those bastard Zionists'

Gianni Vattimo had told Italian radio that Europeans should buy more missiles for Hamas.
By Anna Momigliano | 12:33 30.07.14 |

http://www.haaretz.com/jewish-world/jewish-world-news/.premium-1.607992

Jefferson23

(30,099 posts)
7. Lapid says Hamas commander Mohammad Deif 'a dead man'
Wed Jul 30, 2014, 01:06 PM
Jul 2014

Finance minister said that Deif’s remarks claiming victory were reminiscent of Iraqi propaganda on the eve of the fall of Saddam Hussein.

One day after Mohammed Deif, the commander of Hamas’s military wing, was heard vowing that “victory will be ours,” Finance Minister Yair Lapid told reporters on Wednesday that Deif “is a dead man.”

“For years, Mohammed Deif has been hiding in the tunnels underneath Gaza, and that is where he will remain because he’s a dead man,” Lapid said.

Deif, one of the most wanted terrorists by Israel, which has tried to kill him at least four times but failed, was heard in a recording on Tuesday as saying that Hamas was “winning the war.”

Lapid said that Deif’s remarks were reminiscent of propaganda disseminated by the Iraqi government on the eve of the fall of Saddam Hussein.

“The Iraqi information minister continued to claim that they were defeating the United States, until one day he disappeared,” he said. "[Deif] knows that sooner or later, we are going to find him and kill him.”

http://www.jpost.com/Operation-Protective-Edge/Lapid-says-Hamas-commander-Mohammad-Deif-a-dead-man-369412

bemildred

(90,061 posts)
10. Hamas Back in the Center of Things
Wed Jul 30, 2014, 01:20 PM
Jul 2014

Hamas gunmen killed three Israeli soldiers in the Gaza Strip today, raising the total number of soldiers killed to 56 since the fighting began July 8. According to the army, the soldiers uncovered a tunnel shaft in a residence in southern Gaza. Both the tunnel and the house were booby –trapped and exploded. From Hamas’s point of view it was another in the string of military successes they have racked up in the past 23 days of fighting.

Hamas has regained what it sees as its rightful place smack in the middle of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Whatever agreement finally ends the fighting that has killed at least 1300 Palestinians and 56 Israelis, Hamas will be an essential party to the deal.

“Three weeks ago Hamas was on the sidelines, was politically isolated and was under extreme financial pressure,” Mkheimar Abu Sada, a professor at Al Azhar University in Gaza told The Media Line. “From a military perspective, they have done well in the eyes of the Palestinians by launching long-range missiles and infiltrating behind Israeli lines.”

He says that many Palestinians see Hamas and Palestinian resistance as being able to achieve more gains than Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas has been able to achieve via diplomacy. Support for Hamas has spiked in both the West Bank and Gaza Strip. However, as the death toll continues to rise about 1300 Palestinians, many of them civilians, with more than 6500 wounded, that support may decrease.

http://themedialine.org/news/news_detail.asp?NewsID=40510

bemildred

(90,061 posts)
11. U.S., Israel Fear Pickup in Iranian Support of Hamas
Wed Jul 30, 2014, 01:38 PM
Jul 2014

TEL AVIV—Iran’s support for the Palestinian militant group Hamas has diminished significantly in the past three years, limiting Tehran’s influence over talks to end the war in the Gaza Strip, according to U.S. and Israeli officials.

But the longer the war between Israel and Hamas drags on, these officials said, there’s growing concern that Tehran could try to increase arms shipments to Hamas.

On Tuesday, Iran’s Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei called for the replenishing of Hamas’s military arsenal. “The Muslim world has a duty to arm the Palestinian nation by all means,” he said in a speech ending the Muslim holy month of Ramadan.

Iran’s security services have historically been the largest supplier of arms and cash to Hamas, the Islamist group that gained control of Gaza in 2007 following an internal military conflict with the secular Palestinian party Fatah.

http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2014/07/30/u-s-israel-fear-pickup-in-iranian-support-of-hamas/?mod=WSJBlog

azurnoir

(45,850 posts)
18. well it could appear that Bibi is being 'successful' at if nothing else undoing
Wed Jul 30, 2014, 03:12 PM
Jul 2014

most if not all of the diplomacy towards peace that he so maligned

bemildred

(90,061 posts)
21. He's a unifier, all right.
Wed Jul 30, 2014, 03:23 PM
Jul 2014

It is one of my working heurisitcs that anything he is involved in will be a mess, and so far that is holding up well.

Jefferson23

(30,099 posts)
12. We must defeat Hamas - next time ( Benny Morris )
Wed Jul 30, 2014, 01:59 PM
Jul 2014

| 11:35 30.07.14

It seems like the current war is already lost. It will end in another few days, or perhaps a week or two, with a whimper – yet another cease-fire that leaves Hamas in place, just as happened after previous rounds. Moreover, it seems this war will even increase Hamas’ political and military power, as it has managed to portray itself both as a victim deserving of the world’s compassion and as a hero of the resistance against the Zionist entity. (All the talk of “disarming” the Gaza Strip and stationing Palestinian Authority policemen at the border crossings is so much hot air. As long as Hamas remains standing, it will not lay down its arms and will not let anyone else restrict its sovereignty over its territory.)

Gaza’s status as the victim will win it large helpings of cash from the Arab oil kingdoms and European states. This money will fund the reconstruction of its civilian infrastructure and destroyed houses. Of course, just as happened with the cement that entered the Strip in previous years, some of this money – if not the majority of it – will be diverted by Gaza’s rulers into rebuilding the tunnels and factories that make the rockets. In a few months, the tunnels leading into Israeli territory will resume operation and the missile stockpiles will be replenished, perhaps with new and improved homemade models (or even smuggled ones).

Therefore, the next war will surely come. It will come in another year or two, or perhaps even sooner, because Hamas wants to eradicate the State of Israel (if not to eradicate all Jews, at least in the Middle East), and also because Palestinians in general, as a nation, want the State of Israel to disappear. It’s not pleasant to say this, because many people prefer not to hear it. But even a brief glance at the Hamas charter (1988), the Fatah charter (1964) and the Palestinian National Covenant (1964) – which was never replaced by an enlightened, conciliatory covenant, as Yasser Arafat promised – proves it.

After 1948, 1967, 1973 and 2000-2005, the Palestinians understood that the Arabs aren’t capable of destroying Israel in one blow. Perhaps an Iranian bomb will succeed in doing so in the future, but they can’t count on it. Thus, they adopted a tactic of taking partial but frequent bites that, over time, will gradually weaken the Jewish state.

Our talented young people will move to Berlin or California, tourists and foreign investors will stay away, and potential immigrants will stay where they are, or head for more attractive shores. Who would want to raise his children in a country under constant missile fire, even if, for the moment, very few rockets actually hit their targets? And who would want to tour or invest in a country battered by terrorism?

Just as the Muslims gradually wore down the Crusaders and finally defeated them, so too the Palestinians will wear down and defeat the Jews and, in the end, they’ll return to their places in the Diaspora.

The Israeli government was dragged into the current war against its will. It didn’t prepare for it, but it received a golden opportunity – with comfortable political, international and regional circumstances (Hamas “started it”; they rejected a cease-fire; Egypt is with us; Europe is busy with Ukraine) – in which to destroy Hamas and clean out Gaza.

But the government preferred to take the easier route and exit with “quiet in exchange for quiet,” i.e., a tie, which means continued bouts of violence with Hamas. In recent decades, Israeli governments and the Israeli people have turned into carbon copies of the West: All they want is peace and to hide their heads in the sand; there’s no willingness to sacrifice soldiers (and no willingness to exact a heavy price in blood from the enemy’s civilians), even if it’s clear that the price today – in terms of both our soldiers and their civilians – would be lower than it will be in the future.

That’s what happened in recent years over the issue of Hamas’ attack tunnels. Successive governments knew about them, but opted not to take action against them – perhaps they’ll disappear on their own; let the next government deal with them, and so forth. The same thing happened to us over Iran’s nuclear project, and Judgment Day is approaching.

This is a large part of the explanation for Israel’s weakness in the various Gaza operations that have brought us to this point – the same weakness that guarantees the next round will happen very soon. This weakness is very similar to America’s policy of appeasement under President Barack Obama’s governments, which wound up weakening the status of the United States, and the West as a whole, throughout the world.

What should we do next time? The answer is clear and well known. All that’s needed is the courage to start down this path and the determination to finish the job. It won’t be either easy or quick. We’re talking about reoccupying the entire Gaza Strip and destroying Hamas as a military organization, and perhaps also as a political one (it’s reasonable to think that destroying Hamas’ army will badly weaken Hamas as a political movement).

This will require months of combat, during which the Strip will be cleansed, neighborhood by neighborhood, of Hamas and Islamic Jihad operatives and armaments. It will exact a serious price in lives from both Israel Defense Forces soldiers and Palestinian civilians. But that’s the price required of a nation like ours, which wants to live on its own land in a neighborhood like ours. After gaining control of Gaza, it must be hoped that some moderate Arab power, perhaps the Palestinian Authority, will take over the reins of government.

in full: http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-1.607984

Jefferson23

(30,099 posts)
14. I placed his opinion here along Deif. I was struck at the casual reference
Wed Jul 30, 2014, 02:15 PM
Jul 2014

to get tough, just do it..cleanse the Strip, casualties of ours and theirs..not easy, but someone has
to do it and it's worth it. Wimpy Bibi, get with the real program already..sick stuff...as if there is
no other way..none at all to suit this man's reasoning.

Obama the appeaser was a nice touch he added too.

bemildred

(90,061 posts)
15. Yes, I've read a good deal of "thinking" along those lines today.
Wed Jul 30, 2014, 02:26 PM
Jul 2014

Generally it has that flippancy about the prospect, like it was costly, but not risky. A piece of cake as long as you have the "stomach" for it, as Cheney put it.

They would regret it, and it would not take long, either.

But there is a lot of bluster and posturing on both sides. One of the most irritating things about watching politics is the juvenile level at which the dialog commonly is carried on. Dick-waving, as I call it. Emotional hysterics. Blather from posturing buffoons.

Jefferson23

(30,099 posts)
16. Yes...no doubt. I have a question for you, as I do not know much history of Nasrallah.
Wed Jul 30, 2014, 02:41 PM
Jul 2014

Putting aside the bluster coming from the many idiots, where is he in all of this, in your estimation?

I find his words more worrisome than the others, even those from Iran. Does he have
a history of dick waving, since it seems to me, he may not be blustering at all.

bemildred

(90,061 posts)
17. Nasrallah came up in the 90s.
Wed Jul 30, 2014, 03:06 PM
Jul 2014

He had much to do with the rise of Hezbollah to its current prominence, and the end of Israel's first Lebanese incursion, in 2000 I think it was, or thereabouts.

He has a long history of making people who had underestimated him regret it.

Israel hates him, and the attitude is reciprocated.

He has been known to produce outbursts of purple prose, but is a pragmatic guy when it comes to policy. Deif would love to emulate him, and I believe Hezbollah had a lot to do with the improvement in Hamas' tactics and training.

He is rather busy now helping defend Assad, which may have something to do with Israel deciding to attack Gaza now, when Hezbollah is busy. Hezbollah is a real threat, but I don't know if they would want to start shooting themselves right now. I would not be surprised if they contribute material help to Hamas though, and serve as a conduit for more from elsewhere.

If Hezbollah did start shooting at Israel too, the problem would be like in Gaza, no real way to bomb them into submission or stop the rockets. And they have better stuff. I predict a lot of people would freak out if that happened, but no idea what they might decide to do in response. Something stupid for sure.

Jefferson23

(30,099 posts)
22. For Benny Morris, who wants more sacrifice, in a big way:
Wed Jul 30, 2014, 03:54 PM
Jul 2014
In Memoriam: The 56 IDF soldiers who gave their lives to protect Israel

Israel mourns the deaths of the 56 soldiers and officers killed in action in Operation Protective Edge.

http://www.jpost.com/Operation-Protective-Edge/In-Memoriam-The-27-IDF-soldiers-who-gave-their-lives-to-protect-Israel-368493

Jefferson23

(30,099 posts)
23. Iran's Quds Force to Hamas: Turn Israeli land and sky into hell
Thu Jul 31, 2014, 09:59 AM
Jul 2014
'Disarmament of resistance is a daydream that will only come true in the graveyard' for Israel, says commander of Iranian elite force.

AFP
Published: 07.31.14, 14:16

TEHRAN - The chief of Iran's elite Quds Force has ridiculed calls for Hamas to be disarmed and urged the Palestinian Islamist movement in Gaza to "turn the land and sky into hell" for Israel.


Maj.-Gen. Qassem Suleimani's message to militant factions resisting Israel's military operations in the Gaza Strip was published late Wednesday by Iran's official IRNA news agency.


Suleimani "underlined that confronting the Zionist enemy is a necessity and the Palestinian resistance movement will turn the land and sky into hell for the Zionists."


"Disarmament of resistance is a daydream that will only come true in the graveyard" for Israel, said the rarely quoted senior figure.


The United States and European countries have called for a cease-fire in the devastating Gaza conflict and the disarmament of militant groups in the coastal strip, notably Hamas.


The Quds Force, a branch of Iran's Revolutionary Guard, is highly secretive and conducts security functions abroad deemed necessary to protect the Islamic Republic.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4552812,00.html

bemildred

(90,061 posts)
24. Some bits from elsewhere (not posting a link):
Thu Jul 31, 2014, 10:12 AM
Jul 2014

---

But who is Daif?

His real name is Mohammed Diab Ibrahim al-Masri, aka Mohammed al-Daif. He was born in the city of Khan Younis in southern Gaza in 1965 to a poor family and his father was an upholsterer by trade. His rank is general commander of the Izzedine al-Qassam Brigades, Hamas’ military wing. He is also known as Abu Khaled, or the Phantom, or Hamas’ General.

Israel has always sought to assassinate the Phantom who has haunted them for years.
Daif is one al-Qassam Brigades’ hawks. He does not believe in negotiations and does not think peace talks will lead to a free Palestine. For him, resistance is the answer. He hates the Arab regimes as he knows that, they too, will not liberate Palestine. The man believes in forging an alliance with Iran and Hezbollah in Lebanon and with everyone who wants to provide the Resistance in Palestine with arms. He does not deny Iran’s role in arming al-Qassam Brigades. He is reported to have said, this is the “duty of the Muslim nation.”

Hamas’ general has survived four assassination attempts, one of them cost him an eye and burns to his face and made him partially paralyzed. Daif was the brains behind previous wars with the Israeli occupation that al-Qassem Brigades fought. In calmer times, the Phantom worked on strengthening the Resistance by arming and training it.

---

He emphasized the conditions of the Resistance, affirming once again that the war will go on until the siege on Gaza is lifted. He also pointed out that the Resistance chose to “confront and kill Israel’s military and elite soldiers rather than attack civilians in neighboring villages.”

With this statement, Daif outlined a new phase of operations by al-Qassam Brigades, signaling that they will not rely on suicide operations as was the case in 1996 when he himself planned suicide operations in retaliation for the assassination of Yahya Ayyash (leader of al-Qassam Brigades in the West Bank).

Jefferson23

(30,099 posts)
25. He sounds like he has a plan that he may feel is not only one that would fit his objectives but
Thu Jul 31, 2014, 10:20 AM
Jul 2014

would be considered more palatable under the laws of war, and gain support by allies as a result.


Thank you for the information, what did you make of it?

bemildred

(90,061 posts)
26. Can't really tell.
Thu Jul 31, 2014, 10:39 AM
Jul 2014

It is easy and interesting to speculate, but information is lacking.

On the one hand, the timing of this does not appear to be of his choosing, so you can't assume he had his ducks all in a row when the shooting started.

On the other hand, he is not a fool, and does not seem to be looking for an exit. You can attribute that to fanaticism or fatalism or the fact that he is still well-supplied to continue operations. The IDF asserts Hamas is weakening and losing morale, but that probably has an element of wishful thinking.

And clearly any conventional military objectives he might have in mind must be modest. The statement that Hamas is targeting the military now is interesting, but is good propaganda too, so I'd take it with a grain of salt. But it makes sense in multiple ways that his primary strategy is war theater same as the IDF, since Hamas has no chance of defeating the IDF in any conventional sense, just like the IDF has no real enemy in the conventional sense. This is guerilla war in an urban environment. Hence he wants big splashy attacks to rally the troops and encourage greater outside support and to put pressure on the IDF; which on the other hand expects itself to be perfect in protecting Israel and alternates between arrogant bluster and paranoid soul-searching. It appears they were somewhat fat-dumb-and-happy about the tunnels and Hamas' capabilities. "Arrogance makes you stupid", as I like to say.

We will probably have to wait for the aftermath of recriminations and investigations to sort it out.

Edit: and I think he cares about the laws of war about as much as Bibi, but they both love to wave the bloody shirt.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waving_the_bloody_shirt

Jefferson23

(30,099 posts)
27. I keep looking for signals if Hamas will get the assistance they hope for.
Thu Jul 31, 2014, 10:50 AM
Jul 2014

That is what concerns me, they seem either ready to go much further, and are hoping for help or they know
they can with confidence due to backers promise..too hard to tell. Appreciate your thoughtful reply.

bemildred

(90,061 posts)
28. Yep, or it could be bluster too.
Thu Jul 31, 2014, 10:54 AM
Jul 2014

It all depends on what resources he still has at his disposal, and we have no way to know.

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