Israel/Palestine
Related: About this forumDeif the Islamic holy warrior unites Hamas
Some interesting bits on the cease-fire terms.---
First, Hamas wants Israel to withdraw from the Gaza Strip in exchange for a long-term ceasefire. On Tuesday the organization agreed to a 24-hour ceasefire without preconditions, but Israel did not respond affirmatively.
After the IDF withdraws, Hamas expects to continue negotiations in Cairo over the opening of border crossings (easing, to be exact), an Israeli agreement to allow building materials into the Gaza Strip, and an expansion of fishing zone to 12 miles off the Gaza coast. These all appear to be tolerable requests. But Hamas wants something more: the opening of a seaport under international or Palestinian Authority supervision. And this, it appears, Hamas wont receive.
The final request illustrates how difficult it is for Hamas to stop the fighting. The organization is perceived by the Palestinian and Arab public as the victor in this current battle with Israel. Tuesdays video only deepens that perception, and it is an image Hamas will now flaunt at every opportunity.
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In addition, we must remember that this war has made Hamas a darling of the Arab world. It has also united the disparate agendas within the organizations leadership, finally establishing a rare moment of unity for Mashaal in Qatar, Haniyeh in Gaza, and Deif in his bunker. A ceasefire now would likely relegate Hamas again to the margins of the international agenda, along with its superhero, the mighty religious warrior Muhammad Deif.
http://www.timesofisrael.com/deif-the-islamic-holy-warrior-unites-hamas/
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)I guess.
bemildred
(90,061 posts)Sometimes I wonder why exactly the planet is run this way.
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)sabbat hunter
(6,838 posts)hides in a bunker, while getting Palestinians to die needlessly, trying to get them to be suicide bombers, etc.
I have an idea Deif, why not strap on a bomb and lead by example!
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)ever say, much less think.
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)First, Hamas wants Israel to withdraw from the Gaza Strip in exchange for a long-term ceasefire. On Tuesday the organization agreed to a 24-hour ceasefire without preconditions, but Israel did not respond affirmatively.
After the IDF withdraws, Hamas expects to continue negotiations in Cairo over the opening of border crossings (easing, to be exact), an Israeli agreement to allow building materials into the Gaza Strip, and an expansion of fishing zone to 12 miles off the Gaza coast. These all appear to be tolerable requests. But Hamas wants something more: the opening of a seaport under international or Palestinian Authority supervision. And this, it appears, Hamas wont receive.
Read more: Deif the Islamic holy warrior unites Hamas | The Times of Israel http://www.timesofisrael.com/deif-the-islamic-holy-warrior-unites-hamas/#ixzz38xtdBozQ
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Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)Italian philosopher apologizes for saying he wanted to 'shoot those bastard Zionists'
Gianni Vattimo had told Italian radio that Europeans should buy more missiles for Hamas.
By Anna Momigliano | 12:33 30.07.14 |
http://www.haaretz.com/jewish-world/jewish-world-news/.premium-1.607992
bemildred
(90,061 posts)A lot of the media commentary is barking mad too.
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)Finance minister said that Deifs remarks claiming victory were reminiscent of Iraqi propaganda on the eve of the fall of Saddam Hussein.
One day after Mohammed Deif, the commander of Hamass military wing, was heard vowing that victory will be ours, Finance Minister Yair Lapid told reporters on Wednesday that Deif is a dead man.
For years, Mohammed Deif has been hiding in the tunnels underneath Gaza, and that is where he will remain because hes a dead man, Lapid said.
Deif, one of the most wanted terrorists by Israel, which has tried to kill him at least four times but failed, was heard in a recording on Tuesday as saying that Hamas was winning the war.
Lapid said that Deifs remarks were reminiscent of propaganda disseminated by the Iraqi government on the eve of the fall of Saddam Hussein.
The Iraqi information minister continued to claim that they were defeating the United States, until one day he disappeared, he said. "[Deif] knows that sooner or later, we are going to find him and kill him.
http://www.jpost.com/Operation-Protective-Edge/Lapid-says-Hamas-commander-Mohammad-Deif-a-dead-man-369412
bemildred
(90,061 posts)Hamas gunmen killed three Israeli soldiers in the Gaza Strip today, raising the total number of soldiers killed to 56 since the fighting began July 8. According to the army, the soldiers uncovered a tunnel shaft in a residence in southern Gaza. Both the tunnel and the house were booby trapped and exploded. From Hamass point of view it was another in the string of military successes they have racked up in the past 23 days of fighting.
Hamas has regained what it sees as its rightful place smack in the middle of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Whatever agreement finally ends the fighting that has killed at least 1300 Palestinians and 56 Israelis, Hamas will be an essential party to the deal.
Three weeks ago Hamas was on the sidelines, was politically isolated and was under extreme financial pressure, Mkheimar Abu Sada, a professor at Al Azhar University in Gaza told The Media Line. From a military perspective, they have done well in the eyes of the Palestinians by launching long-range missiles and infiltrating behind Israeli lines.
He says that many Palestinians see Hamas and Palestinian resistance as being able to achieve more gains than Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas has been able to achieve via diplomacy. Support for Hamas has spiked in both the West Bank and Gaza Strip. However, as the death toll continues to rise about 1300 Palestinians, many of them civilians, with more than 6500 wounded, that support may decrease.
http://themedialine.org/news/news_detail.asp?NewsID=40510
bemildred
(90,061 posts)TEL AVIVIrans support for the Palestinian militant group Hamas has diminished significantly in the past three years, limiting Tehrans influence over talks to end the war in the Gaza Strip, according to U.S. and Israeli officials.
But the longer the war between Israel and Hamas drags on, these officials said, theres growing concern that Tehran could try to increase arms shipments to Hamas.
On Tuesday, Irans Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei called for the replenishing of Hamass military arsenal. The Muslim world has a duty to arm the Palestinian nation by all means, he said in a speech ending the Muslim holy month of Ramadan.
Irans security services have historically been the largest supplier of arms and cash to Hamas, the Islamist group that gained control of Gaza in 2007 following an internal military conflict with the secular Palestinian party Fatah.
http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2014/07/30/u-s-israel-fear-pickup-in-iranian-support-of-hamas/?mod=WSJBlog
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)most if not all of the diplomacy towards peace that he so maligned
bemildred
(90,061 posts)It is one of my working heurisitcs that anything he is involved in will be a mess, and so far that is holding up well.
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)| 11:35 30.07.14
It seems like the current war is already lost. It will end in another few days, or perhaps a week or two, with a whimper yet another cease-fire that leaves Hamas in place, just as happened after previous rounds. Moreover, it seems this war will even increase Hamas political and military power, as it has managed to portray itself both as a victim deserving of the worlds compassion and as a hero of the resistance against the Zionist entity. (All the talk of disarming the Gaza Strip and stationing Palestinian Authority policemen at the border crossings is so much hot air. As long as Hamas remains standing, it will not lay down its arms and will not let anyone else restrict its sovereignty over its territory.)
Gazas status as the victim will win it large helpings of cash from the Arab oil kingdoms and European states. This money will fund the reconstruction of its civilian infrastructure and destroyed houses. Of course, just as happened with the cement that entered the Strip in previous years, some of this money if not the majority of it will be diverted by Gazas rulers into rebuilding the tunnels and factories that make the rockets. In a few months, the tunnels leading into Israeli territory will resume operation and the missile stockpiles will be replenished, perhaps with new and improved homemade models (or even smuggled ones).
Therefore, the next war will surely come. It will come in another year or two, or perhaps even sooner, because Hamas wants to eradicate the State of Israel (if not to eradicate all Jews, at least in the Middle East), and also because Palestinians in general, as a nation, want the State of Israel to disappear. Its not pleasant to say this, because many people prefer not to hear it. But even a brief glance at the Hamas charter (1988), the Fatah charter (1964) and the Palestinian National Covenant (1964) which was never replaced by an enlightened, conciliatory covenant, as Yasser Arafat promised proves it.
After 1948, 1967, 1973 and 2000-2005, the Palestinians understood that the Arabs arent capable of destroying Israel in one blow. Perhaps an Iranian bomb will succeed in doing so in the future, but they cant count on it. Thus, they adopted a tactic of taking partial but frequent bites that, over time, will gradually weaken the Jewish state.
Our talented young people will move to Berlin or California, tourists and foreign investors will stay away, and potential immigrants will stay where they are, or head for more attractive shores. Who would want to raise his children in a country under constant missile fire, even if, for the moment, very few rockets actually hit their targets? And who would want to tour or invest in a country battered by terrorism?
Just as the Muslims gradually wore down the Crusaders and finally defeated them, so too the Palestinians will wear down and defeat the Jews and, in the end, theyll return to their places in the Diaspora.
The Israeli government was dragged into the current war against its will. It didnt prepare for it, but it received a golden opportunity with comfortable political, international and regional circumstances (Hamas started it; they rejected a cease-fire; Egypt is with us; Europe is busy with Ukraine) in which to destroy Hamas and clean out Gaza.
But the government preferred to take the easier route and exit with quiet in exchange for quiet, i.e., a tie, which means continued bouts of violence with Hamas. In recent decades, Israeli governments and the Israeli people have turned into carbon copies of the West: All they want is peace and to hide their heads in the sand; theres no willingness to sacrifice soldiers (and no willingness to exact a heavy price in blood from the enemys civilians), even if its clear that the price today in terms of both our soldiers and their civilians would be lower than it will be in the future.
Thats what happened in recent years over the issue of Hamas attack tunnels. Successive governments knew about them, but opted not to take action against them perhaps theyll disappear on their own; let the next government deal with them, and so forth. The same thing happened to us over Irans nuclear project, and Judgment Day is approaching.
This is a large part of the explanation for Israels weakness in the various Gaza operations that have brought us to this point the same weakness that guarantees the next round will happen very soon. This weakness is very similar to Americas policy of appeasement under President Barack Obamas governments, which wound up weakening the status of the United States, and the West as a whole, throughout the world.
What should we do next time? The answer is clear and well known. All thats needed is the courage to start down this path and the determination to finish the job. It wont be either easy or quick. Were talking about reoccupying the entire Gaza Strip and destroying Hamas as a military organization, and perhaps also as a political one (its reasonable to think that destroying Hamas army will badly weaken Hamas as a political movement).
This will require months of combat, during which the Strip will be cleansed, neighborhood by neighborhood, of Hamas and Islamic Jihad operatives and armaments. It will exact a serious price in lives from both Israel Defense Forces soldiers and Palestinian civilians. But thats the price required of a nation like ours, which wants to live on its own land in a neighborhood like ours. After gaining control of Gaza, it must be hoped that some moderate Arab power, perhaps the Palestinian Authority, will take over the reins of government.
in full: http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-1.607984
bemildred
(90,061 posts)Naive optimism in my view.
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)to get tough, just do it..cleanse the Strip, casualties of ours and theirs..not easy, but someone has
to do it and it's worth it. Wimpy Bibi, get with the real program already..sick stuff...as if there is
no other way..none at all to suit this man's reasoning.
Obama the appeaser was a nice touch he added too.
bemildred
(90,061 posts)Generally it has that flippancy about the prospect, like it was costly, but not risky. A piece of cake as long as you have the "stomach" for it, as Cheney put it.
They would regret it, and it would not take long, either.
But there is a lot of bluster and posturing on both sides. One of the most irritating things about watching politics is the juvenile level at which the dialog commonly is carried on. Dick-waving, as I call it. Emotional hysterics. Blather from posturing buffoons.
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)Putting aside the bluster coming from the many idiots, where is he in all of this, in your estimation?
I find his words more worrisome than the others, even those from Iran. Does he have
a history of dick waving, since it seems to me, he may not be blustering at all.
bemildred
(90,061 posts)He had much to do with the rise of Hezbollah to its current prominence, and the end of Israel's first Lebanese incursion, in 2000 I think it was, or thereabouts.
He has a long history of making people who had underestimated him regret it.
Israel hates him, and the attitude is reciprocated.
He has been known to produce outbursts of purple prose, but is a pragmatic guy when it comes to policy. Deif would love to emulate him, and I believe Hezbollah had a lot to do with the improvement in Hamas' tactics and training.
He is rather busy now helping defend Assad, which may have something to do with Israel deciding to attack Gaza now, when Hezbollah is busy. Hezbollah is a real threat, but I don't know if they would want to start shooting themselves right now. I would not be surprised if they contribute material help to Hamas though, and serve as a conduit for more from elsewhere.
If Hezbollah did start shooting at Israel too, the problem would be like in Gaza, no real way to bomb them into submission or stop the rockets. And they have better stuff. I predict a lot of people would freak out if that happened, but no idea what they might decide to do in response. Something stupid for sure.
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)brush off.
bemildred
(90,061 posts)Quite possibly the mind behind Hamas "success" in this war, or one of them.
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)Israel mourns the deaths of the 56 soldiers and officers killed in action in Operation Protective Edge.
http://www.jpost.com/Operation-Protective-Edge/In-Memoriam-The-27-IDF-soldiers-who-gave-their-lives-to-protect-Israel-368493
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)AFP
Published: 07.31.14, 14:16
TEHRAN - The chief of Iran's elite Quds Force has ridiculed calls for Hamas to be disarmed and urged the Palestinian Islamist movement in Gaza to "turn the land and sky into hell" for Israel.
Maj.-Gen. Qassem Suleimani's message to militant factions resisting Israel's military operations in the Gaza Strip was published late Wednesday by Iran's official IRNA news agency.
Suleimani "underlined that confronting the Zionist enemy is a necessity and the Palestinian resistance movement will turn the land and sky into hell for the Zionists."
"Disarmament of resistance is a daydream that will only come true in the graveyard" for Israel, said the rarely quoted senior figure.
The United States and European countries have called for a cease-fire in the devastating Gaza conflict and the disarmament of militant groups in the coastal strip, notably Hamas.
The Quds Force, a branch of Iran's Revolutionary Guard, is highly secretive and conducts security functions abroad deemed necessary to protect the Islamic Republic.
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4552812,00.html
bemildred
(90,061 posts)---
But who is Daif?
His real name is Mohammed Diab Ibrahim al-Masri, aka Mohammed al-Daif. He was born in the city of Khan Younis in southern Gaza in 1965 to a poor family and his father was an upholsterer by trade. His rank is general commander of the Izzedine al-Qassam Brigades, Hamas military wing. He is also known as Abu Khaled, or the Phantom, or Hamas General.
Israel has always sought to assassinate the Phantom who has haunted them for years.
Daif is one al-Qassam Brigades hawks. He does not believe in negotiations and does not think peace talks will lead to a free Palestine. For him, resistance is the answer. He hates the Arab regimes as he knows that, they too, will not liberate Palestine. The man believes in forging an alliance with Iran and Hezbollah in Lebanon and with everyone who wants to provide the Resistance in Palestine with arms. He does not deny Irans role in arming al-Qassam Brigades. He is reported to have said, this is the duty of the Muslim nation.
Hamas general has survived four assassination attempts, one of them cost him an eye and burns to his face and made him partially paralyzed. Daif was the brains behind previous wars with the Israeli occupation that al-Qassem Brigades fought. In calmer times, the Phantom worked on strengthening the Resistance by arming and training it.
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He emphasized the conditions of the Resistance, affirming once again that the war will go on until the siege on Gaza is lifted. He also pointed out that the Resistance chose to confront and kill Israels military and elite soldiers rather than attack civilians in neighboring villages.
With this statement, Daif outlined a new phase of operations by al-Qassam Brigades, signaling that they will not rely on suicide operations as was the case in 1996 when he himself planned suicide operations in retaliation for the assassination of Yahya Ayyash (leader of al-Qassam Brigades in the West Bank).
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)would be considered more palatable under the laws of war, and gain support by allies as a result.
Thank you for the information, what did you make of it?
bemildred
(90,061 posts)It is easy and interesting to speculate, but information is lacking.
On the one hand, the timing of this does not appear to be of his choosing, so you can't assume he had his ducks all in a row when the shooting started.
On the other hand, he is not a fool, and does not seem to be looking for an exit. You can attribute that to fanaticism or fatalism or the fact that he is still well-supplied to continue operations. The IDF asserts Hamas is weakening and losing morale, but that probably has an element of wishful thinking.
And clearly any conventional military objectives he might have in mind must be modest. The statement that Hamas is targeting the military now is interesting, but is good propaganda too, so I'd take it with a grain of salt. But it makes sense in multiple ways that his primary strategy is war theater same as the IDF, since Hamas has no chance of defeating the IDF in any conventional sense, just like the IDF has no real enemy in the conventional sense. This is guerilla war in an urban environment. Hence he wants big splashy attacks to rally the troops and encourage greater outside support and to put pressure on the IDF; which on the other hand expects itself to be perfect in protecting Israel and alternates between arrogant bluster and paranoid soul-searching. It appears they were somewhat fat-dumb-and-happy about the tunnels and Hamas' capabilities. "Arrogance makes you stupid", as I like to say.
We will probably have to wait for the aftermath of recriminations and investigations to sort it out.
Edit: and I think he cares about the laws of war about as much as Bibi, but they both love to wave the bloody shirt.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waving_the_bloody_shirt
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)That is what concerns me, they seem either ready to go much further, and are hoping for help or they know
they can with confidence due to backers promise..too hard to tell. Appreciate your thoughtful reply.
bemildred
(90,061 posts)It all depends on what resources he still has at his disposal, and we have no way to know.