From mondoweiss. That bastion of ethical op-eds

[Shaktimaan]

The best U.S. ‘strategy’ to combat ISIS? Stop supporting religious states

As Obama could explain to the American people in simple terms, Israel is a place where,

–Few Palestinians serve in the military, though they constitute nearly 20 percent of the population. The U.S. got rid of that discrimination in 1948.

–A Barack Obama could never be appointed Prime Minister; Palestinian political parties don’t count when it comes to forming governing coalitions. The U.S. got rid of that discrimination in 1964.

–About 5 million Palestinians live without rights in permanently occupied territories, right alongside Jews who do have rights. The U.S. got rid of that system with the end of slavery in the 1860s and then Jim Crow 100 years later.

All these forms of second-class citizenship and worse exist because Israel calls itself the Jewish state, and Jews are fuller citizens than non-Jews. That’s a religious distinction, and one that only helps ISIS, which can argue that Muslims need their religious state too that is ready to dispense violence to maintain its existence.

When Jews walk through the streets of Jerusalem saying Death to the Arabs, and when Israel grabs another 1000 acres of the West Bank to build a Jewish settlement, these aggressive acts come out of a religious ideology. And the failure to separate church and state.

If Israel and Palestine moved toward equal rights for all citizens, that would do more to cool the Middle East and defang ISIS than all the drone attacks to kingdom come. And I’m not talking about the two state solution. You could have three four forty states between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean. But they should honor the principle of equal rights. As John Brown said when he acted to bring down slavery, the self-evident truth of the first line of the Declaration of Independence was no different from the Golden Rule: the principle that you do not do unto others as you would not have them do unto you is the same as the principle that all people are equal.

- See more at: http://mondoweiss.net/2014/09/strategy-supporting-religious#sthash.qxs8krnF.dpuf

[Shaktimaan]

1. A quick reply

–Few Palestinians serve in the military, though they constitute nearly 20 percent of the population. The U.S. got rid of that discrimination in 1948.

The US got rid of draft deferrals in 1948?! No, that's not it. I guess he's referring to how Jewish Israelis are all drafted while the Arabs have voluntary service. So he's actually arguing for Jewish rights against discriminatory laws favoring non jews. ...That, or he's just talking nonsense.

–A Barack Obama could never be appointed Prime Minister; Palestinian political parties don’t count when it comes to forming governing coalitions. The U.S. got rid of that discrimination in 1964.

Is he comparing the civil rights act to the fact that small Arab groups in the Knesset aren't frequently given key roles in controlling government policy?

Because it might occur to Phil that the reason isn't race, but a total divergence between their policy platforms versus some of the more mainstream ones.

To illustrate: when we learned about Herman Cain's policy experience, political ideology and personal history, we decided not to let him run for president. It wasn't because of race.

–About 5 million Palestinians live without rights in permanently occupied territories, right alongside Jews who do have rights. The U.S. got rid of that system with the end of slavery in the 1860s and then Jim Crow 100 years later.

Really? Who'd Puerto Rico vote for in 2012?

All these forms of second-class citizenship and worse exist because Israel calls itself the Jewish state, and Jews are fuller citizens than non-Jews. That’s a religious distinction, and one that only helps ISIS, which can argue that Muslims need their religious state too that is ready to dispense violence to maintain its existence.

But it's not a religious distinction. Israel is a democracy whose decl of independence guarantees equal rights to all citizens regardless of race or religion.

When Jews walk through the streets of Jerusalem saying Death to the Arabs, and when Israel grabs another 1000 acres of the West Bank to build a Jewish settlement, these aggressive acts come out of a religious ideology.

No. It doesn't. It comes from anger built up out of an unending conflict that's been raging for decades. A conflict that is split down ethnic lines. These are not acts born of religion or even religious differences, in peacetime. These are acts born from war, where the different ethnicities serve mostly to identify which side one fights for.

If Israel and Palestine moved toward equal rights for all citizens, that would do more to cool the Middle East and defang ISIS than all the drone attacks to kingdom come. And I’m not talking about the two state solution. You could have three four forty states between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean. But they should honor the principle of equal rights. As John Brown said when he acted to bring down slavery, the self-evident truth of the first line of the Declaration of Independence was no different from the Golden Rule: the principle that you do not do unto others as you would not have them do unto you is the same as the principle that all people are equal.

FROM ISRAEL'S DECL. OF INDEPENDENCE

THE STATE OF ISRAEL will be open for Jewish immigration and for the Ingathering of the Exiles; it will foster the development of the country for the benefit of all its inhabitants; it will be based on freedom, justice and peace as envisaged by the prophets of Israel; it will ensure complete equality of social and political rights to all its inhabitants irrespective of religion, race or sex; it will guarantee freedom of religion, conscience, language, education and culture; it will safeguard the Holy Places of all religions; and it will be faithful to the principles of the Charter of the United Nations.

And that's why we don't read mondoweiss here. Because they're either really dumb douches, or they're smart dicks who lie to dumb douches to use them for political reasons. Which, either way, makes them assholes.

[grossproffit]

3. I'm going with "they're smart dicks who lie to dumb douches to use them for political 'forums'."

[DanTex]

4. LOL. Comparing Puerto Rico to the Israeli occupation. Hadn't heard that one before, thanks.

[Shaktimaan]

5. Not exactly.

I was just trying to use that obviously absurd parallel to highlight the equally absurd attempts at comparing issues like the IDF's ethnic disparity with US armed forces racial integration.

You have to admit the points he raised were ridiculous.

[King_David]

2. No surprise .

I only ever see that site posted here. I had never heard of them before.

[oberliner]

6. PS: ISIS doesn't actually give a shit about our support for Israel

If we cut Israel off tomorrow it would matter not a whit to the ISIS folks.

[King_David]

7. Agreed , don't quite follow that logic.

ISIS has it's own agenda.

[LeftishBrit]

9. Very true.

They are just as hostile to most Arab groups (and more in a position to massacre them) as they are to Israel, or to the West.

While peace, and equal rights, in Israel, would be an excellent and indeed necessary idea, it has little to do with defeating ISIS.

[LeftishBrit]

8. Well, I agree with the criticisms of Israel; but they need to take off those rose-coloured glasses

Last edited Fri Sep 12, 2014, 11:36 AM - Edit history (2)

re the USA (and other countries)

'A Barack Obama could never be appointed Prime Minister'

It took over 200 years for a Barack Obama to be elected president in the USA.

'Palestinian political parties don’t count when it comes to forming governing coalitions. The U.S. got rid of that discrimination in 1964.'

And enabled its re-introduction in 2013. In any case, the marginalization of Palestinian parties is not established by law; it is the result of the fact that, so far, people have been more readily able to form a governing coalition without these parties. Admittedly, the Israeli party system is crap and totally unfit for purpose.

'About 5 million Palestinians live without rights in permanently occupied territories, right alongside Jews who do have rights. The U.S. got rid of that system with the end of slavery in the 1860s and then Jim Crow 100 years later.'

Totally unjust system - but if they think that non-white Americans all have equal rights in practice, they are off their heads. (And for example, when are the residents of Washington D.C., the seat of the nation's government - many of them African-Americans or other minority group members - going to get proper political representation?) And I'm not saying it's perfect in the UK, either.

'When Jews walk through the streets of Jerusalem saying Death to the Arabs, and when Israel grabs another 1000 acres of the West Bank to build a Jewish settlement, these aggressive acts come out of a religious ideology. And the failure to separate church and state.'

Nationalism as much as religion; though the ultra-religious don't help. And how about the 'failure to separate church and state' that leads to attacks on women's and gay rights in many American states? Britain doesn't even have nominal church-state separation - and religion caused massive violence in, and associated with, Northern Ireland until very recently. Well, that too was nationalism as much as religion.