Does Israel Have to Be Likable?

[oberliner]

It's no secret that Israel has a bit of a P.R. problem. Especially after this summer's graphic Gaza operation, Israel supporters across the country have their hands wringing: how do you make Israel likable? How do you make the case for Israel when Israel has bigger guns and smaller casualties? Against a backdrop of bloody pictures from Gaza, garnering sympathy for the Jewish state seems almost impossible.

There are a couple of different strategies. One is touting Israel's liberalism -- democracy, free speech, and so forth. This goes along with Israel's technological achievements.

Another is everyone's famous word: context, context, context. Reframing the conflict. While much of the world labels the crisis the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, it is really the Arab-Israeli conflict. Israel is clearly the underdog in the middle of a hostile Middle East. Just factoring in the reality of the Palestinian state being an Iranian client state escalates things quickly.

These are all important points to make. Necessary, even. Yet there is also an inherent flaw here: Trying to cast Israel as the likable underdog goes against the very reason Israel was established.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/amanda-botfeld/does-israel-have-to-be-li_b_5984446.html

A message from the (Jewish) youth of America.

Amanda Botfeld is Editor-in-Chief of the Leviathan Jewish Journal at the University of California, Santa Cruz. She writes about Israel, politics, and things that are Jew-ish.

[Jefferson23]

1. Being an occupying force for decades and Israel has a bit of a PR problem?

I'm not sure what she means by this: You can't be a Zionist and try to make Israel small.

Schlock is more apt in describing her opinion.

[oberliner]

5. Some occupiers seem to take less of a PR hit

Turkey and China, for instance, are viewed more favorably internationally than Israel.

[Jefferson23]

7. Uh huh. She states, Israel has a bit of a PR issue. If she sees occupation that is decades

long as bit of a PR issue, she is as lost as anyone who looks to minimize that brutality by
placing it against another countries ills. That has the undertones of suggesting the attention
is not about the occupation but about who is inflicting it...long worn out excuses.

[oberliner]

8. She's just a college student

Maybe she'll come around to your point of view as she gets older.

[Jefferson23]

9. Most likely she'll remain with yours..but you never know. n/t

[oberliner]

10. I don't agree with anything she's written

I think it is as immature as the op-ed from the unnamed 25 year old. Both give a good window though into how young people view things.

[Jefferson23]

12. You posted an OP of someone you have no agreement and without commentary, until now. ok n/t

[oberliner]

16. Sorry I meant: "I don't agree with everything she's written"

Not "anything" she's written.

[Aerows]

21. If someone kicked a puppy in the US

should we not condemn them because someone in Russia kicked a puppy, too?

False equivalency drives me nuts, as does denying culpability because someone, somewhere, somehow has also committed a crime.

Crime is crime. Palestinians commit crimes, and Israelis do, too.

Neither are inviolate of sin in the conflict.

[bemildred]

2. It doesn't seem that it's been trying much. nt

[oberliner]

4. The sad thing is - they are trying quite a bit

That is the whole concept behind "hasbara".

[bemildred]

6. Perhaps "too many mixed messages" then? nt

[oberliner]

11. And bad message delivery systems

I think there may be a few other factors involved as well.

[hack89]

3. Fortunately compared to its neighbors Israel will always look better

it certainly cannot be argued that the world is a better place with more countries like Syria, Iraq, Iran, Egypt and Saudi Arabia.

[Scootaloo]

13. Yes, Israel looks good compared to Syria

Syria is a state that has been run by an inherited Stalinist dictatorship since the 50's and is at th moment in the throes of crumbling apart thanks to a three-year civil war and the conquest of its eastern reaches by a fundamentalist semi-nation made of roving bandits who may or may not eat people.

So sure. Israel looks good compared to that.

Compared to any state whose history doesn't follow the trajectory of the Mad Max movies, though, Israel loses its luster.

[hack89]

14. What Arab country does Israel look bad in comparison with?

none as far as I can see.

[Scootaloo]

15. Point is, you are setting the bar very, very low

[shaayecanaan]

17. What Western country does it look good in comparison with? nt

[hack89]

18. Better than America

Great health care, open secular society, innovative economy.

[shaayecanaan]

20. The health care part is fair enough

the "secular" bit is ridiculous (the US is an officially secular state, Israel is an officially Jewish state), and economically, inequality is growing faster than in other developed countries:-

http://www.haaretz.com/business/study-income-inequality-growing-faster-in-israel-than-in-other-developed-nations-1.421277

[hack89]

22. Ok.

Israel is a horrible place. You win.

[oberliner]

23. Israel is officially a secular state

It is a secular democracy - both formally and informally.

[DanTex]

36. There are gradations, and Israel is somewhere in the middle.

It's not the US and it's not Saudi Arabia. There are plenty of Israeli policies that wouldn't fly if they had a first amendment. For example, the openly discriminatory immigration policies, the lack of inter-religious marriages, etc.

[oberliner]

46. No it's not - the government is completely secular

Read the Israeli Declaration of Independence and the Basic Laws.

The country also has one of the highest percentages of citizenry who identify as secular (or non-religious) in the world.

Much higher than the United States.

[shaayecanaan]

53. That is quite simply a lie that you never tire of repeating

Sweden is not a secular state (it is an officially Lutheran state). Britain is not a secular state. France is an officially secular state, as is the United States.

If the US had a chief pastor, it would not be a secular state. If France had a Chief Priest, it would not be a secular state. Israel has a Chief Rabbi (two of them, in fact). It is therefore not a secular state.

Israel also has religiously constituted courts, religious tests that are used to determine issues of obtaining citizenship, and it defers to religious authorities on questions of who is considered Jewish. Israel also forbids civil marriage and divorce in virtually all instances, meaning that religious authorities hold a near monopoly on issues of marriage and divorce.

It is not a secular state.

[King_David]

19. Israel is a Jewish state

It's never looked good and never would or will

[Jefferson23]

24. Has not ever been officially a Jewish state...which a few here misunderstand. n/t

[King_David]

25. Officially?

Whatever that means?

Which state has officially been a Jewish State?

Who makes it official DU IP group or Mondoweiss or The UNHRC ?

[Jefferson23]

26. Your questions reflect a lack of understanding of what legislation means, what does and does not

exist in Israeli law. Perhaps you'll believe oberliner, see his post in this thread.

Bibi made efforts to make it official fairly recently, but his efforts failed.


Your other Mondoweiss comments are silly, have no merit but do speak to your confusion.

[King_David]

27. I don't think so

Israel is the Jewish State , I am not confused , almost every world leader including Obama refer to it that way as well as every major media organization and even terror orgs. Such as ISIS .

It's the essence of Hamas ' being.

It's the very reason for Palestinian supporters in the USA and Europe.

Official not necessary, it is....

[Jefferson23]

28. Again, you are confused as to the meaning of official in this context.

Bibi was trying to make it official, which had never been done before...he wanted to use
it as a means to negate any RoR in future negotiations.

Secular Jews not likely to ever be in agreement with seeing it made official, especially written
by Netanyahu. For someone who claims to be a non believer, as you do, I would think you'd
be aware of the issue and why his efforts failed.

[King_David]

31. I don't think it's relevant one way or another.

Israel is the Jewish state.
I'm not confused at all.

[Jefferson23]

32. It is absolutely relevant and if you understood the distintion, you would be against Bibi

be successful at making it official.

[King_David]

33. As I said it's already fact.

Israel is the Jewish state .

Democratic , Secular and Jewish.

The rest of the argument is just noise.

[Jefferson23]

35. That is the statement of complete ignorance of the facts, truly void of reality.

It is another indication of your inability to make distinctions of official within Israel
and how that would impact secular Jews.

[King_David]

37. What rubbish

The only ignorance is those denying that Israel is the Jewish state .

Official or not is irrelevant and it makes no difference what "opinion" has it at--- it's fact.

[Jefferson23]

38. Then link where Bibi succeeded with his attempt to make it official. Uh, you can't.

That is your problem you can't fix with emoticons and pure denial...it's not based on opinion.

[King_David]

40. Fact is Israel is the Jewish state

Nothing to do with Bibi or Santa or the Lochness monster... It's just fact.

[Jefferson23]

41. Not officially..a distinction lost on you. One that carries major significance. Especially for

secular Jews and Israeli Arabs/Palestinians...Bibi failed to accomplish that goal.

In response to prime minister's plan to legalize Israel's status as Jewish nation state, Hadash head also says law would make Israel the first racist country in the 21st century.

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's attempt to pass a Jewish state law in the Knesset is a euphemism for blowing up the last chance to reach a two-state solution along the 1967 lines, a senior Palestinian official said Thursday.

Responding to Netanyahu's announcement on Thursday that he plans to push forward a new Basic Law to "legally anchor" Israel's status as "the nation-state of the Jewish people," the Palestinian official issued a statement that the PLO already recognized Israel in 1988 and again in the 1993 mutual recognition agreement signed by Yasser Arafat and Yitzhak Rabin.

"If Netanyahu wants to push the Palestinians into the corner he should also remember that the only reference to the Jewish State is the 1947 UN Resolution 181. The Palestinians, as such, will be ready to consider recognizing Israel as the Jewish State only based on Resolution 181. Nothing more. Nothing less," the official said.

Knesset Member Mohammed Barakeh (Hadash) said Netanyahu's announcement complements the slew of racist legislation in the Knesset in recent years and that such a law would make Israel the first racist country in the 21-st century. Barakeh added that the passing of such a bill would revive the international community's definition of Zionism and racism.

in full: http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/1.588573

[King_David]

43. Nothing's lost in me its just irrelevant

It's fact.

[Jefferson23]

44. You can keep saying that, which you base on pure fabrication. When Israel passes a law

making it official, you let me know. Until then, the non-believer you claim to be, is
poorly informed on existing Israeli policy. I will remember this conversation with you
when you speak to another DU member here, accusing him of not know much of
anything about Israel's policies, domestic and foreign...because that would be you,
not him, that fits that description.

[King_David]

47. You can do whatever you want, you are free to argue anything you

Want or Post your opinion and support any other DUr opinion no matter how misinformed.

But arguing that Israel is not the Jewish State either officially or not officially or endorsed by whatever authority you choose or not is irrelevant and only makes such person appear foolish and is just plain silly.

It is what it is and Israel is the Jewish state and that's just fact.

[Jefferson23]

49. It is not official. That you are too poorly informed of the difference is amusing. I appreciate the

etertainment your denial has brought to the discussion.

[King_David]

51. Good to see you coming around to it

Cheers!

[procon]

29. having material goods does notmake up for a

Soulless lack of humanity. Touting a democary in an apartheid state that excludes segments of the population that have differing ethnic and religion affliations does no warrant bragging rights. Being aggressively militaristic and stealing land, properties and natural resources from neighboring countries is not going to disappear with a little PR shinola. And refering to Israel as an "underdog" is a poor attempt at whitewashing history.

[oberliner]

30. Nothing that you've written here is true

Israel does not have a "soulless lack of humanity" and the state does not exclude segments of the population. It is actually one of the most diverse countries in the world in terms of ethnic and religious affiliations, all with equal rights under the law.

[DanTex]

34. Some of it is true.

"Soulless lack of humanity" is an opinon.

"Being aggressively militaristic"
True.

"stealing land, properties and natural resources from neighboring countries"
Stealing land, properties and natural resources is true, whether they are stealing it from a "neighboring country" is debatable.

"an apartheid state that excludes segments of the population that have differing ethnic and religion affliations"
This is clearly true if you include occupied territories, which after almost 50 years can be considered permanently under Israeli control. Israel proper is not an apartheid state, but it is still discriminatory in many ways, for example, anyone Jewish from anywhere in the world can move there, but Palestinians who used to live there and were forcefully evicted can't. Even Palestinians who are married to Israeli citizens can't generally move there to be with their family.

[procon]

39. Regardless of the candy coated state propaganda,

the entrenched colonialist and apartheid policies of a half century of unresolved, institutional terrorism under Israeli occupation give ample evidence that dispel such claims as "equal rights". The millions of Palestinians in the Occupied Territories have no voice in the government that controls everything in their daily lives through an oppressive military occupation.

Examples of Israels explicit discriminatory practices are hardly invisible when the Israeli military exercises absolute control over freedom of movement. Look at how the “Law of Return” affects Palestinians, or the Draconian laws that bar Palestinians who marry Israelis from living with their spouses in Israel, or the disparity in education which must include the military reprisals against Palestinian schools... is that equality?

The construction of a separation wall that split properties, separate ID requirements, separate roads, water, and electrical systems, these are hardly inclusive gestures. The poverty and unemployment rates demonstrate just how "equal" those rights are when non-Jews are barred from military service which then excludes them from a broad spectrum of public services and benefits that effectively diminishes their economic, political and civil opportunities.

[MFM008]

42. and yet

They keep sucking up our $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.

[oberliner]

45. Negligible

The US Military Budget is $495.6 billion.

Aid to Israel is less than half of one percent of that.

And most of it comes back to the US in the form of Israel buying our military hardware.

[Krishna Vijaya]

48. It is actually more than

half of one percent of that.

Plus considering the US has 318 million people, and Israel has 8 million, the US spends 24% as much defending each Israeli as it spends defending each American. Then again, most of the miliary aid has to be spent on US equipment that Israel would not otherwise buy. US military aid to every country is partially intended as a subsidy for the US Defense Industrial Complex.

[oberliner]

50. No it's not

Do the math. It is less than one half of one percent of the US defense budget.

[azurnoir]

54. more importantly what % of Israel's military budget is the US contributing?

really what the US military budget is compared with what we contribute in foreign aid to any other country is unimportant, generally speaking we will spend more on ourselves

[Jefferson23]

55. Yep, and thank you for pointing that out. Also, with regard to Israeli policy,

would it be fair to say, they are on one hand a state that defines itself secular and at the same
time has many contradictions..such as the governments decision to keep to Jewish dietary rules
even though a significant percent are secular..there are many more contradictions, seems a bit
of a paradox to me. As this thread indicates, not much agreement about that, but it is true, an
official Jewish state it is not.


We've been complicit for far too long on the arms deals.

Urge the U.S. Government to stop arming Israel

http://act.amnestyusa.org/ea-action/action?ea.client.id=1839&ea.campaign.id=30408&ea.tracking.id=MessagingCategory_PrisonersandPeopleatRisk~MessagingCategory_ChildrensRights~MessagingCategory_InternationalJustice