Jews must stop Temple Mount visits, Sephardi chief rabbi says

[azurnoir]

Sephardic Chief Rabbi Yitzhak Yosef on Friday called on Jews to stop their attempts to visit Jerusalem’s Temple Mount, in order to restore calm to the capital after weeks of violence and religious clashes surrounding the holy site.

“We need to stop the incitement provoked by people going to the Temple Mount,” Yitzhak said at the funeral of 17-year-old Shalom Ba’adani, who was critically injured in Wednesday’s car attack in Jerusalem and died of his wounds Friday.

“Jews must not go to the Temple Mount and provoke the Arab terrorists,” he said. “This must be stopped…only in this manner shall the blood of the people of Israel stop being spilt.”

Yosef reiterated the belief held by many senior Jewish figures that visiting the Temple Mount, Judaism’s holiest site, was forbidden by God.

“Fourth-rate rabbis cannot dispute (the rulings of) the sages of Israel,” Yosef stated.

http://www.timesofisrael.com/jews-must-stop-going-to-temple-mount-sephardic-chief-rabbi-says/#ixzz3IO4Hyp9F

[oberliner]

1. These are the same kooks that don't like women being anywhere near the Wall

The far RW fundamentalist Jews can be so extreme in their beliefs.

[bemildred]

2. "Fourth-rate rabbis"

[Jester Messiah]

3. Wrong on so many levels

It's just stupid and tragic that these people are killing each other over bronze-age mythology. But to say that Person A can't go to Location because Person B will get all pissed off over it, surely that's Person B's problem? Person A is well within their rights to go wherever the hell they want. If Person B's imaginary friend gets all butthurt over it, tough nuts.

[Scootaloo]

4. It's not about imaginary friends.

Do you expect to go and do as you please among the churches and synagogues of your community? Think the local bishopric should knuckle under because you want to hold a Wiccan esbat in the nave of the nearest cathedral? If you asked and they said no, would you and some armed buddies go drive out all the Catholics so you could do it anyway?

Maybe you would, I dunno. I kind of doubt you would, though.

The aqsa compound is held as a trust by the Muslim Waqf, based in Amman. They have set up rules for who may visit, when, and how visitors should conduct themselves. Anyone may visit as a tourist during daylight hours, most days of the week (I think it's closed to tourists on Fridays and Saturdays). Visitors are asked to dress modestly. They should remove their shoes before entering a building, and are asked to refrain from photography within the buildings.Only Muslims may conduct prayer within the compound.

What this means is that, no, you are not entitled to go where you want and do as you please. In this case, you are a visitor to someone else's place of worship, and you should behave respectfully with that in mind. Not because of "imaginary friends," but out of simple fucking respect for the people whose place it is.

of course those people happen to be Muslims so it seems that many here do not believe they are to be afforded even that much respect.

[oberliner]

5. "Only Muslims may conduct prayer within the compound"

The compound that just happens to include the holiest site in Judaism.

It was a Jewish place of worship before Islam existed.

The entire Old City of Jerusalem is filled with Jewish holy places (including places of worship) that were desecrated during the Jordanian occupation of the city. This included the eviction of all Jews living in the area (many of whom had lived there for generations) and the destruction of dozens of synagogues, with others being converted into stables and chicken coops.

The Mount of Olives, a Jewish cemetery with over 100,000 graves spanning 3,000 years, was desecrated, with a hotel being built on that ancient holy site.

Your dictum stating:"...you are a visitor to someone else's place of worship, and you should behave respectfully with that in mind. Not because of "imaginary friends," but out of simple fucking respect for the people whose place it is" was thoroughly and disgracefully unheeded.

Of course those people happen to have been Jews so it seems that many here do not believe they are to be afforded even that much respect.

Edit to add: How about we move past all that and allow both Jews and Muslims to pray in a place that both faiths consider to be sacred? There is no reason why that could not be done respectfully for followers of each religion.

[shira]

6. Amazing how Team Palestine here holds such....

...bigoted discriminatory beliefs. Jews and Christians are not allowed to pray at what they see (and have seen for thousands of years) as a holy site.

Meanwhile, everyone is allowed to pray at the Kotel (Western Wall). Think they'd be okay with Israel making the Kotel an exclusively Jewish prayer site?



I have yet to find anyone from Team BDS who doesn't support Palestinian Apartheid policy.

Another great example of the religion of Palestinianism.

[bemildred]

16. We're not a team, it's more like a crowd or a mob. nt

[shira]

26. It's like a team. No room for dissent, criticism...

It's odd how all those who are "pro-Palestinian" here support Palestinian discriminatory policy against Christians and Jews at their holiest site.

Is it just a coincidence or a team effort?

[bemildred]

27. What that is is a fantasy. nt

[shira]

28. I must've missed the condemnation here by someone....

...from the Borg collective.

See, not a team.

[bemildred]

31. But there is no enforcement mechanism, trust me, I've crossed the line many times.

Sometimes even Oberliner and I agree, and nothing happens to me.

[Mosby]

33. do you support Jews and Christians praying on the temple mount?

[bemildred]

34. I don't really give a shit, to be honest.

Edit: I think it's a dumb argument, based on dogmatic religion.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

42. You can agree with whomever you like.

And WTF is this fantasy about the Borg collective?

[bemildred]

17. A gaggle, we're a gaggle of pro Palestinians.

"In terms of geese, a gaggle is equal to at least five geese."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaggle

There must be at least a dozen of us.

[Jefferson23]

18. lol

I got a kick out of that pic..thanks.

[bemildred]

19. I just find the idea that we are organized ludicrous.

[Jefferson23]

20. It is ludicrous, but it seems to satisfy her on some level to say it..no idea why.

[King_David]

22. Agreed its silly , but I have heard other ridiculous slurs

Like "team Apartheid "

Or "Hasbaridos"

[Jefferson23]

25. I hear ya...it is ludicrous.

Conference call at 1 800 Apartheid?

The thing is, you do hear references to political positions re-labeled
as a team effort in GD too sometimes...not just here...people get upset,
and it ends up there, somehow.

[azurnoir]

39. maybe more of a horde like a horde of hamsters

but it is a failing but we don't organize well

[bemildred]

40. Awww, such cute little guys.

I was thinking lemmings too, but that doesn't fit, we don't follow each other around.

We used to have Hamsters, I like hamsters, but they don't stick around long enough.

[Jefferson23]

41. You've reminded me of the one we had as kids, her name was Dot. She would

swing from the top of the cage, like a trapeze artist..she was great.

[Scootaloo]

8. It had also ceased to be a Jewish place of worship before Islam existed

Yup, the Jordanians were dicks. That doesn't make a lick of difference though, does it? There's no temple there. There's a Mosque and a Muslim shrine. it's administered in trust, in accordance with a treaty that Israel is participant to.Nor does it change the principle i stated, about how to behave in someone else's space.

Edit to add: How about we move past all that and allow both Jews and Muslims to pray in a place that both faiths consider to be sacred? There is no reason why that could not be done respectfully for followers of each religion.

Because the people administrating the site have said no.

You desperately want a fight over this. Kind of shows that respect is the last thing on your mind.

[shira]

7. You're trying to sell Palestinian Apartheid....

I'm pretty sure your head would explode if Israel were to make the Kotel (Western Wall) an exclusively Jewish prayer site. This would be yet another example of ethnic Zionist white nationalism to you.

Of course when the Palestinians do it, you're the head cheerleader.

Explain?

[Scootaloo]

9. I would wonder why the policy was changed

As far as I'm aware though, isn't the whole plaza already regarded as an open-air synagogue by the Jerusalem rabbinate? if i were to visit the wall, wouldn't I have to follow a set of guidelines, dress, and decorum in accordance to the rules set by the rabbinate? And that if i don't want to follow those rules, I can be escorted out or, preferably, just not visit?

[shira]

11. The policy is everyone is allowed....

...but only Muslims are allowed to pray at the Temple Mount. Everyone can pray at the Wall.

As far as I'm aware though, isn't the whole plaza already regarded as an open-air synagogue by the Jerusalem rabbinate?

Probably. But what does that matter? The Jerusalem Rabbinate aren't ruling with an iron fist there.

if i were to visit the wall, wouldn't I have to follow a set of guidelines, dress, and decorum in accordance to the rules set by the rabbinate?

No.

And that if i don't want to follow those rules, I can be escorted out or, preferably, just not visit?

No.

For example, the Rabbinate has big problems with Women of the Wall. Too bad, as Israel is a liberal democracy. Rabbis lose. Liberal values win the day.

[oberliner]

13. Men and women are generally separated at the Wall (just like they are in the Al Aqsa mosque)

In the mosque, the women are not allowed to pray in the same location as the men.

The orthodox versions of Judaism and Islam both have a ways to go with respect to women as far as I am concerned.

[shira]

14. The Wall now belongs to all Jews, all people....

Israel just recently inaugurated a new area (last year) allowing for mixed co-ed prayer...
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4422978,00.html

[oberliner]

12. The rules do not include not letting Muslims pray there

Though most don't choose to because they can actually pray beyond the wall while Jews are not permitted to do so.

The wall is the closest place the Jews are allowed to get to the Temple Mount which is why they pray out there instead of inside (Excepting some of the super-orthodox who think the holiest site is so holy that they can't/shouldn't set foot there).

If a site has religious significance for multiple faiths, doesn't it seem like the fair thing to do would be to allow all adherents of said faiths to pray there as long as they do so in a respectful manner?

I'm genuinely not getting why you would be opposed to that.

[shira]

15. This discrimination is an argument for Israel....

...assuming total command of the entire area, allowing all faiths free religious access to the entire site.

The alternative is discrimination.

[King_David]

30. If they not allowing Jews to pray at their holiest site

Then it doesn't exactly instill confidence in freedom of religion if whole tracts of Jerusalem are ever relinquished.

History shows that there was no religious freedom or respect of Jewish holy sites under Jordan.

[Jester Messiah]

35. I have no respect for their ideology or belief system.

I disagree that such things are automatically entitled to a certain baseline level of respect. They are at best ridiculous, at worst actively harmful. The best I can do is respect their property rights. I won't go on to their private property against their wishes, but if they claim that I can't go to a public place because of their barbaric idiocy, we're gonna have a problem.

[shira]

10. +1. n/t

[King_David]

21. Or G-d will smite you?

These Rabbis need a chill pill.

[azurnoir]

23. Maybe Ya'alon says it better - Jewish visitors to Temple Mount ‘fueling fire’ of incitement

Defense Minister Moshe Ya’alon joined Foreign Minister Avigdor Liberman on Friday in blasting rightist Knesset members and ministers for fanning tensions in Jerusalem by visiting the Temple Mount.

“It is our right to go to the Temple Mount. Jews have and will access it. But there’s a very sensitive status quo that is part of an agreement with Jordan and it must be maintained.”

“It’s true that [the Palestinians] are interpreting these visits as acts of provocations and [using them] as an excuse for incitement. But we must not add fuel to the fire,” he said.

Since the Temple Mount reopened to Jewish visitors last week, following a closure after the attempted assassination of Temple Mount activist Rabbi Yehudah Glick, three right-wing politicians — MKs Moshe Feiglin, Tzipi Hotovely and Shuli Moalem-Refaeli — have visited the site, claiming it as their democratic right and denouncing the double standard for Jewish and Muslim worshipers.

“It’s [Feiglin's] right to go [to the Temple Mount.] But when someone does it with an online PR campaign while publicly challenging the status quo, of course that’s incitement,” said Ya’alon.

http://www.timesofisrael.com/yaalon-jewish-visitors-to-temple-mount-fueling-fire-of-incitement/#ixzz3IPnorEs7

[King_David]

24. Yaalon ,

Is a right wing nut.

[Jefferson23]

29. Looks like they are registering the message from DC and Jordan? n/t

[bemildred]

32. Israel ready to resume peace talks with Palestinians: Lieberman

Maybe. I ran into this "come to Jesus" moment earlier today:

Israeli Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman said Friday that Israel is ready to resume direct peace talks with the Palestinians.

"It is clear that any strategic breakthrough in the peace talks is possible only as part of the regional comprehensive solution and we ready for direct peace talks in anywhere any place," Lieberman told a joint press conference with European Union's Foreign Policy Chief Federica Mogherini.

U.S.-brokered Palestinian-Israeli talks ground to a halt in April after Israel failed to honor an earlier promise to release a number of Palestinian prisoners.

Palestinian officials now plan to present a draft resolution to the U.N. Security Council, which, according to recent statements by Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas, would seek to achieve a "two-state solution," providing the Palestinians with a sovereign state – with East Jerusalem as its capital – inside pre-1967 borders.

http://www.aa.com.tr/en/rss/416773--israel-ready-to-resume-peace-talks-with-palestinians-lieberman

[Jefferson23]

36. Amazing how one can find the time for resuming negotiations..ain't it?

So where is the chickenshit? Is it me, or has he forked over the microphone to Lieberman because he
is too arrogant, hurt pride..or did the US let Israel know they'd rather go through a proxy? lol

Thanks for the info.

[Israeli]

37. Coincidence ;).......

EU's incoming foreign minister visits Israel

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4589246,00.html

"We see that there might be a political will to resume the talks and to especially make sure that these talks bring results,” Mogherini said Friday at a joint press conference with Lieberman.

+

Report: European nations threaten to recognize Palestinian State

European official tell WSJ 'other European countries are poised to follow Sweden' if efforts are not made to renew peace talks between Israel, Palestinians.

A number of the United States' key European allies are threatening to follow the decision of the Swedish government and unilaterally recognize a Palestinian state if efforts are not made to renew the peace talks between Israel and the Palestinians, the Wall Street Journal reported Friday,
basing the claim on comments made by top US and European officials.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4589371,00.html

[Jefferson23]

38. Yep, just coincidence..lol

Kidding aside, hopefully the pressure that has begun will actually benefit
the Palestinians..I am skeptical about how far they'll take it with Israel,
and I don't expect them to let up..more like they're all getting warmed up.

With that said, the potential for good exists..perhaps more so than
ever before. In solidarity, for peace.