Virginia State Bar boycotts Israel

[azurnoir]

I was pretty shocked to find the following email in my inbox:

Dear Fellow Members of the Virginia State Bar,

Certain members of the Virginia State Bar and other individuals have expressed objections to the VSB’s plan to take the Midyear Legal Seminar trip in November to Jerusalem. It was stated that there are some unacceptable discriminatory policies and practices pertaining to border security that affect travelers to the nation. Upon review of U.S. State Department advisories and other research, and after consultation with our leaders, it has been determined that there is enough legitimate concern to warrant cancellation of the Israel trip and exploration of alternative locations.

Undoubtedly, this news will disappoint some VSB members. But we are a state agency that strives for maximum inclusion and equality, and that explains this action. Fortunately, we still anticipate being able to find a suitable location for the November seminar trip, and we will send out further news very soon.

Finally, we are pleased that our members and citizens feel able to express concerns and look to us to protect rights. In the end, we are all part of the same team, and the VSB will continue to stay focused on advancing its primary objectives—public protection, access to justice, and improvement of the profession.

As always, I appreciate having the honor of serving as your president.


Best regards,

Kevin E. Martingayle,

President, Virginia State Bar


http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2015/03/28/virginia-state-bar-boycotts-israel

__________________________________________________________________________________________________

what follows in the article is pretty predictable

[guillaumeb]

1. when the email stated

It was stated that there are some unacceptable discriminatory policies and practices pertaining to border security that affect travelers to the nation.

were they referring to the abundantly documented case of discriminatory treatment given to Palestinians and other Arabs who attempt to enter into Israel?

From the Jerusalem Post:
http://www.jpost.com/Diplomacy-and-Politics/US-Israels-discrimination-against-Arab-travelers-keeps-it-out-of-visa-waiver-deal-346481

From Haaretz:
http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-1.604043

[It is Tuesday]

2. Tell *THAT* to the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia....

They won't even allow Jews on their plane on the way to Saudi Arabia, even if it's just a pass-through to another country other than Israel.

How's *THAT* for discrimination?

[Fred Sanders]

4. Two wrongs still do not make a right, but what you say is true. So is what is in the OP.

[Dick Dastardly]

15. You are correct 2 wrongs don't make a right. But

baseless, false and or inaccurate accusations such as in the letter against Israel don't make a wrong either.



The letter in the op was part of an article ripping it apart by George Mason law professor and Virginia Bar member David Bernstein who was shocked to find it in his email.

Some of Bernsteins comments about the letter in the op link. He also links to supporting info.
A few reactions:
(1) The American Bar Association has recently held meetings in Israel, for example here and here [update: along with hundreds of international conferences that are held in Israel every year, including, for example, a conference on Arabic literature with Muslim attendees from abroad.]  Virginia has a state agency called the Virginia Israel Advisory Board “that proactively serves as the bridge and facilitator between Israeli companies and the Commonwealth of Virginia.” The idea that either the state bar as an attorney organization or as a state agency has some obligation to avoid Israel is nonsense. Surely Martingayle and colleagues can’t be so naive and out-of-touch to think that the concerns raised are not part of the broader divestment, sanctions, and boycott movement meant to delegitimize Israel.

(2) If the Virginia State Bar is in effect boycotting Israel, I, and I suspect many others, will henceforth be boycotting the State Bar, in my case beyond what is necessary to assist my students, which is my professional obligation. I would hope that no Virginia attorneys who are supporters of Israel will attend whatever alternative venue the State Bar settles on.

(3) As near as I can tell, the only public discussion of all this before Martingayle’s letter was a petition circulated three days ago by anonymous “Concerned Members of the Virginia State Bar” that, as of this writing, has received a grand total of thirty-four signatures. It’s hard to imagine that the Martingayle and colleagues canceled a planned event that already had a hotel booked, a CLE program, and even optional tours set up based on those objections. Who are the “other individuals” mentioned by Martingayle who objected?


Bio from Wikipedia
David E. Bernstein is a professor at the George Mason University School of Law in Arlington, Virginia, where he has been teaching since 1995.[1] His primary areas of scholarly research are constitutional history and the admissibility of expert testimony. Bernstein is a contributor to the popular legal blog, The Volokh Conspiracy. Bernstein is a graduate of the Yale Law School, where he was a John M. Olin Fellow in Law, Economics and Public Policy, a Claude Lambe Fellow of the Institute for Humane Studies, and a senior editor of the Yale Law Journal. He received his B.A. degree summa cum laude with honors in History from Brandeis University
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Bernstein_(law_professor)

[Fred Sanders]

16. There is no "accusation" against Israel, only that border and immigration security discriminate

based on religion and race.

That is the issue that is being duscussed in the OP and referred to in the Virginia Bar letter of cancellation, and being deflected from by some - because it is true.

[Little Tich]

7. Are you talking about Jews or Israelis?

Saudi Arabia and Israeli are formally at war, so it's normal to limit the entry of citizens of enemy countries. That goes both ways, imagine a Saudi who wants to spend his vacation in Tel Aviv, he wouldn't be allowed into Israel.

It's either very stupid or very disingenious to conflate Jews and Israelis.

Jews fly to Saudi Arabia all the time.

[Mosby]

9. they are not at war

It's also false that Saudis cannot travel to israel, only the Saudis discriminate based on nationality not Israel.

[Dick Dastardly]

10. SA has some of the most discriminatory religious policies in the world.

Jews may fly to SA all the time but only if they hide the fact they are Jewish will they get an entry visa.

The wiki link has a lot on the religious intolerance in SA.


Until March 1, 2004, the official government website stated that Jews were forbidden from entering the country.[26] Prejudice against Jews is fairly high in the kingdom. While the webpage has been modified, no one who admits to be Jewish, on the visa paperwork or has an Israeli government stamp on his or her passport is allowed in the kingdom.
Much more
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_religion_in_Saudi_Arabia




Saudi Arabia bans Jewish visitors
The following appeared on the official website of the Saudi Supreme Commission for Tourism in February 2004. The site says the policy of the Saudi Arabian government is to deny visas to "Jewish People." After thisanti-Semitic language was discovered and publicized by the media and Congressman Anthony Weiner, the Saudi government removed the offensive language claiming that it was a "mistake." Rep. Weiner noted that the Saudi record of anti-Semitism suggests otherwise and subsequently sponsored a bill that would control the distribution of visas to Saudi citizens until the President certifies that the Saudis do not discriminate on the basis of religious affiliation or heritage when issuing visas:

Actual wording
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/arabs/saudiban.html





Saudi Arabia denies allowing Jews to work in country

Riyadh says new ‘Jewish’ checkbox for visas on Labor Ministry website not an indication of policy change
Saudi Arabia has denied a report that it would begin allowing Jews to work inside the Gulf kingdom.Get The Times of Israel's Daily Edition by email and never miss our top stories   FREE SIGN UP!In an official statement, the Saudi Labor Ministry denied a report last week in the Saudi al-Watan newspaper to the effect that non-Israeli Jews would be able to receive guest worker visas for the first time, the UK Middle East Eye reported Friday.


Clip
Saudi Arabia, which has some of the most restrictive travel policies in the world, does not grant visas to Israelis or to those with Israeli visa stamps in their passports. And although the government has officially said that it does not discriminate against tourists based on religious affiliation, some would-be visitors have, in the past, reported having trouble in obtaining a visa after identifying as Jewish.Visitors to the Gulf state in the 1970s reported having to sign affidavits swearing they were not Jewish in order to gain entry to the country.Read more: Saudi Arabia denies allowing Jews to work in country | The Times of Israel http://www.timesofisrael.com/saudi-arabia-denies-allowing-jews-to-work-in-country/#ixzz3VnAaOvQq Follow us: @timesofisrael on Twitter | timesofisrael on Facebook
http://www.timesofisrael.com/saudi-arabia-denies-allowing-jews-to-work-in-country/

[Little Tich]

17. Does being pro-Israel always mean being factually incorrect?

Some Jews are not Israelis, and Saudi Arabia makes that distinction, even if you and your sources don't.

A Google search on the subject gives a slightly different version of how things are with Jews in Saudi. Perhaps you don't have the Google where you live?

This link pretty much denies everything you claim:
http://www.quora.com/Can-Jews-fly-to-Saudi-Arabia

An article from Haaretz: Saudi Arabia says Jews welcome to work in kingdom (Dec 31, 2014)
http://www.haaretz.com/jewish-world/jewish-world-news/1.634590

If you want to be right, never, ever use the Jewish Virtual Library as a source. That's just some friendly advice.

[Scootaloo]

8. If your base for criteria is Saudi Arabia, you've already lost the argument

Also, welcome to DU. *cough*

[It is Tuesday]

11. Look above, Scootaloo

You already lost the argument before you responded.

[Scootaloo]

12. Now I have to watch Pee-Wee's Big Adventure again.

But no, again. if your sole argument is that Israel is better than Saudi Arabia? That's a pretty low standard. is it an achievement to be better than Saudi Arabia? Belarus is better than Saudi Arabia. Tajikistan is better than Saudi Arabia. Of every nation on earth only North Korea is worse than Saudi Arabia. being better than Saudi Arabia does not give you bragging rights, and it is not a winning point in an argument.

Of course, defending bigotry in one nation by saying another nation is also bigoted is already no defense worth making.

[oberliner]

13. Saudi Arabia is one of the US's closest allies

Perhaps a BDS movement is in order.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

14. How many junkets is the group in question

making to Saudi Arabia?

[Fred Sanders]

3. Whatever airport point of entry regulatory criteria Israel applies at the airport, must be discrimatory based on

race or religion or creed?

[It is Tuesday]

5. Seeing that Israel does allow Arabs in their country

tells me they are not discriminatory.

The Virginia State Bar is attempting to BDS, and it'll blow up on their faces.

[Fred Sanders]

6. The Virginia State Bar Association are experts in law, I would trust their knowledge and judgment over yours.

[Little Tich]

18. Times of Israel: Citing discrimination, Virginia State Bar cancels Israel course

Source: Times of Israel, JTA

Citing discrimination, Virginia State Bar cancels Israel course

Midyear Legal Seminar was slated for November; group president claims many members would have been barred from entering

The Virginia State Bar canceled its plans to hold a legal seminar in Jerusalem, citing “unacceptable discriminatory policies and practices pertaining to border security.”

The Midyear Legal Seminar trip to Jerusalem had been scheduled for November, according to the state agency’s website. The agency is looking into other venues.

In a letter sent late Friday night, Kevin Martingayle, president of the Virginia State Bar, wrote, “Upon review of US State Department advisories and other research, and after consultation with our leaders, it has been determined that there is enough legitimate concern to warrant cancellation of the Israel trip and exploration of alternative locations.”

Martingayle told the Washington Times that the trip was canceled due to concerns that “many of its members” would not be let in to Israel.


Read more:
http://www.timesofisrael.com/citing-discrimination-virginia-state-bar-cancels-israel-course/