Demise of Bin Laden: a delusional tale...

[Indi Guy]

Last edited Mon Nov 26, 2012, 03:51 AM - Edit history (1)

Demise of Bin Laden: a delusional tale



... by Kevin Barrett

On May 2nd, 2011, just hours after the news of the alleged Bin Laden killing was reported, I published a piece that has since gone viral and become something of an underground classic:

“Death of Bin Laden”: A Spectral Human Sacrifice

In that article, I predicted:

“Whatever evidence they produce identifying the ghost or double as ‘Bin Laden’ will probably have the same chain of custody as the Fatty Bin Laden ‘confession video’ of December 2001 -- that is, no chain of custody whatsoever.”...

http://presstv.com/detail/2012/11/25/274379/demise-of-bin-laden-delusional-tale/

[cpwm17]

1. Osama appears to not exist anymore

Where did he go? I haven't heard from him in a while.

[frogmarch]

2. He's dead, Jim. nt

[cpwm17]

3. Thanks for clearing that up

[frogmarch]

4. It’s unfortunate that

Last edited Mon Nov 26, 2012, 01:53 PM - Edit history (1)

the Obama administration didn’t offer empirical proof to the public of Osama bin Laden’s death, but even if they had, conspiracy theorists would have tried their hardest to poke holes in it. It’s just how they roll. Some conspiracy theorists say that President Obama made up the Osama death story to take the focus off the birthers’ squawking about Obama’s birth certificate. Other conspiracy theorists claim that Osama bin Laden had died years before - but where is their proof of this claim? It seems conspiracy theorists don’t need actual proof to support their theories. Anything will do. Their motto is Smell Conspiracy in Everything and then Wing It When Asked for Proof.

Photos of dead Osama were taken, and the photos were examined by facial recognition experts and confirmed to be photos of dead Osama. DNA samples were taken from his body and compared to brain tissue samples taken from Osama’s dead sister. U.S. officials said they were 99.99% sure the corpse was that of Osama bin Laden. Conspiracy theorists claim that the Osama DNA analysis was done too quickly to have been real. Well, DNA analyses can be done rapidly – even overnight in some cases - especially if DNA of blood relatives of the person in question has already been analyzed.

After Osama’s body was properly prepared for disposal according to Islamic tradition, it was buried at an undisclosed location in the Arabian Sea to prevent his grave site from becoming a shrine. Smart move, in my opinion, because the grave site certainly would have become a shrine for Islamic fanatics and terrorist groups like Al Qaeda.

I have a conspiracy theory (of sorts) of my own: I think it's possible that President Obama and his administration prefer to let the Osama death conspiracy theorists have their fun rather than release the Osama death photos and other pertinent information and possibly provoke a terrorist attack. As long as at least some terrorists believe Osama is alive or was killed years ago when Dubya was president, they might not think an attack would be worth the effort. Who knows, maybe Osama death conspiracy theorists, without realizing it, are helping to prevent Islamic terrorist attacks on Americans by claiming that Osama is alive, or that he died years ago.

[cpwm17]

5. I wish that Obama had made a better effort to capture Osama alive

Last edited Wed Nov 28, 2012, 05:01 PM - Edit history (1)

but I guess they took the easy way out.

I'm not sure what kind of evidence they could have used to prove that they had killed Osama. As you indicated, no proof is adequate for the CT'ers.

Common sense says that Obama couldn't have faked the killing. If Osama were still alive, that would have destroyed his administration; and if Osama had died earlier, it is possible that someone could present proof of his earlier death, and also destroy Obama's administration.

[ocpagu]

9. "I'm not sure what kind of evidence they could have used to prove that they had killed Osama"

How about a picture?

[cpwm17]

11. CT'ers would claim that the picture was fake

just like all of the other 9-11 evidence.

[ocpagu]

12. Perhaps, but...

... why didn't the government publish it anyway?

[cpwm17]

13. I don't know

I think they claimed it was too gruesome. Perhaps it's just like everything else related to US war making: they hide the gory details of war.

[ocpagu]

19. So...

...we don't have pictures, we don't have films, we don't have a body. The only thing we have is... FAITH IN GOVERNMENT. Oh, that will teach those conspiracy lunatics a lesson...

[cpwm17]

20. We also have common sense

Someone, based on faith, who believes that governments lie about everything and that all negative claims about governments are credible, is a tool. This thought process leaves CT'ers vulnerable to the most ridiculous CT scams.

Libertarians think that most things that governments do are bad. CT'ers have a lot in common with libertarians.

[ocpagu]

21. That's not what I asked.

I'll make it simple. What are the solid evidences that Osama was killed in this operation, besides what the government told you?

Do you have any? Anything? At all? Or do you rely solely on faith in your government?

[cpwm17]

26. From my post #5 above:

"Common sense says that Obama couldn't have faked the killing. If Osama were still alive, that would have destroyed his administration; and if Osama had died earlier, it is possible that someone could present proof of his earlier death, and also destroy Obama's administration."

Here's my earlier reply to you concerning your claim that Obama was part of a conspiracy to fake Osama's death: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php/www.scn.org/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=125x322750#322873

[ocpagu]

27. So you have absolutely no evidences...

... and rely solely on "faith" in your government, which you describe as "common sense". Thank you for admitting that. But as far as I know you're not the "spokesperson" of "common sense". "Common sense" didn't say anything. But I understand, it is a tough question and you have absolutely nothing to back you up on this - other than appeal to imaginary authorities in the issue, such as "the common sense". Did you speak by phone? E-mail? Did "common sense" pay you a visit? Was Santa Claus with him?

[cpwm17]

28. You're accusing Obama of being a part of a massive 9-11 conspiracy

Yes, if Obama faked Osama's death, then he's a part of the entire 9-11 conspiracy. I'm far from an Obama fan, but I don't believe in any such conspiracy, let alone one that Obama could take part in.

There are multiple videos where Osama talks about his role in 9-11. You claim at least one of them is faked. No evidence would convince you of anything. You would claim that pictures of Osama's body were faked: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php/www.scn.org/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=125x322750#322817

Osama is not with us anymore. Unless there was some sort of massive conspiracy, all evidence is that the US killed him.

[ocpagu]

30. "all evidence is that the US killed him"

I'm not sure we're speaking the same language (though I understand why are you trying to divert the subject). You keep repeating that "all evidence is that US killed him", but all I'm asking to you is: which evidences?

That's ok, you believe in your government account about the death of Osama. No problems with that. But don't come pretending that your belief is based on "evidences". You didn't mention one so far. Your belief is... faith. That's my point.

BTW, It wasn't me who claimed one of the videos is fake... were several international media outlets. Are BBC and Daily Mail "wacko conspiracy theorists" too?

[cpwm17]

35. Osama quit existing when the US Government claimed to have killed him

in an operation that many members of the US Government took part in. The consequences of a fabricated story being exposed would be severe for the Osama administration.

The BBC in your link didn't make any such claim. The reporter interviewed local Pakistanis that claimed the video was fake.

[Frank_Norris_Lives]

6. I think after.....

....WMD lies, secret syphillis testing, numerous CIA-organized Coup d'états, and ad nauseum, that we all have earned the right to be skeptical of what our government says, but doesn't show, about important things.

[cpwm17]

7. Everything you wrote is accurate

Last edited Wed Nov 28, 2012, 09:24 PM - Edit history (1)

Our government does more evil than a large percentage of Americans realize. Pushing lies to promote unprovoked wars is normal business for our government. But our government has its limits on what it will do and what is possible. It doesn't take a lot of people to fabricate a story to promote a particular agenda.

CT'ers go overboard and support positions that are not at all supported by evidence, or are just plain impossible. A large percentage of Americans are not corrupt and won't go along with a complicated conspiracy scheme.

[Frank_Norris_Lives]

8. Those who don't believe in conspiracies....

...have never experienced REAL power.

[hack89]

10. So you think the President was lying to us? OK. nt

[Indi Guy]

15. Do you think that the president can...

...control the CIA?

[AlwaysQuestion]

16. Wow, imagine a member of the U.S. government lying

...........especially the POTUS. I'm shocked that you could even pose such a question.

This country's leader LYING? Let me tell you something, hack89, such a thing would simply never happen--welllll, okay, in China, definitely; in Russia, bloody yes; in Cuba, you bet your sweet bippy; in Venezuela, hell,for sure; why, even in England, France, Spain, Australia, Canada, entirely possible.

Lying, mass murder, assassinations, evil committed against its own citizenry, thieving, conspiracy, and all manner of other crimes against man can and do happen in and by other countries, but not--I repeat--not in and by the United States of America. The U.S. of A. is a special, gentler, kinder, honest, most forward looking, god fearing country whose job it has always been simply to protect its own and help all others around the world see the light, the truth, justice, and the pathway to prosperity and happiness.

Oh stop, some of you!! Okay, the U.S. may employ some strange ways to accomplish its goals, but you could never describe its methods as in any way nefarious, cruel and murderous. Never, never, never!!!!

In short, America IS the way and thus does not need to learn the lessons of history. America makes its own rules and its own history. It is the job of all others to follow and to give up their own resources and ways of doing business and succumb to the U.S and its sanctioned international corporations. Those who would defend their countries and themselves against marauding invaders must learn that they are honor bound to cease and desist lest the U.S. label them filthy, rotten insurgents. Patriotism and protection of one's own country is the sole purview of the U.S. and its own declared allies. C'mon, is that so difficult to grasp?! What part of this do the likes of Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan, Iran, Syria et al not understand? It's so gawd-damn elementary, really!!

I for one get it that the U.S. speaks truth, that it wants only what is good for us all. It is God inspired. It is Christian. It is awe inspiring. It is what all countries and their peoples aspire to. Can we all just drink the kool-aid, so we can better serve the very country whose agenda is only to help us be our very best in servitude.

Finally, not to put too fine a point on it, the U.S. is the one and only ever FOREVER country for it is the strongest, the best armed, the smartest, the brainiest, the craftiest, the cleverest, the richest, the healthiest, the most honest, the most long-lived, the most generous, the kindest, the safest, the overall bestest country in the world.

I'm a fan, to be sure!! Now, Indi whomever you are, will you kindly exit the building, for you have no business here being an upstart and trying to upset all. I find your pennings downright hurtful and I for one take offense. I will try and say this as politely as I can.................bugger off!

[ocpagu]

22. LOL

Great post.

[jberryhill]

17. Yeah... and birthers still want to see the REAL Obama birth certificate

You just have to accept the fact that some people are crazy.

That doesn't mean they can't run websites or write persuasively.

But they are stone cold crackers.

[Codeine]

14. PressTV?

[Bucky]

18. Spectral sacrifice? Osama was killed by SPECTRE?

never saw that one coming

[ocpagu]

23. Revealed: Military emails show that NO U.S. sailors witnessed Osama bin Laden's secret burial at sea

Revealed: Military emails show that NO U.S. sailors witnessed Osama bin Laden's secret burial at sea

*Defense Department says it cannot find any images or videos of bin Laden's aboard USS Carl Vinson
*Pentagon failed to produce autopsy report, death certificate or results of DNA tests

Internal emails among U.S. military officers indicate that no American sailors watched Osama bin Laden's burial at sea from the USS Carl Vinson, and traditional Islamic procedures were followed during the secret ceremony.

The emails, obtained by The Associated Press through the Freedom of Information Act, are heavily blacked out, but are the first public disclosure of government information about the al-Qaida leader's death. The emails were released Wednesday by the Defense Department.

Bin Laden was killed on May 1, 2011, by a Navy SEAL team that assaulted his compound in Abbottabad, Pakistan.
One email stamped secret and sent on May 2 by a senior Navy officer briefly describes how bin Laden's body was washed, wrapped in a white sheet, and then placed in a weighted bag.

(...)

In a response to separate requests from the AP for information about the mission, the Defense Department said in March that it could not locate any photographs or video taken during the raid or showing bin Laden's body. It also said it could not find any images of bin Laden's body on the Vinson.

The Pentagon also said it could not find any death certificate, autopsy report or results of DNA identification tests for bin Laden, or any pre-raid materials discussing how the government planned to dispose of bin Laden's body if he were killed.

Read more:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2236617/Revealed-Military-emails-NO-U-S-sailors-witnessed-Osama-bin-Ladens-secret-burial-sea.html

[ocpagu]

24. Osama Bin Laden Videos Released By The Pentagon Are a Hoax, Man In TV Video Identified

“His name is Akhbar Khan (Han), He owns the house……I know him very well” says his neighbor. Only 1 in 50 locals questioned believe Bin Laden was really killed in that house. Obama staged this whole scam with the Patreaus Panetta Pakistani Pentagon CIA, that has been supplying the “Taliban” so the Pentagon can run a fake war to keep rebuilding Afghaniistan for Hillary Clinton and the CIA."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-13329078

http://canadianawareness.org/2011/05/osama-bin-laden-videos-released-by-the-pentagon-are-a-hoax-man-in-tv-video-identified/

http://www.economicvoice.com/pentagon-released-bin-laden-home-video-possible-fake/50019842#axzz2Kzd8zD3z

[cpwm17]

29. The pictures of Osama on the left from the Pentagon released video

do look a lot like the known pictures of Osama on the right. The ear, nose, eye socket, and forehead are the same shape. The person who posted these pictures was trying to claim the opposite.

[ocpagu]

31. Except for the fact...

... that the person in the video has given interviews and talked to several media outlets AFTER US announced bin Laden was killed. Besides, he is quite a well-known person in the local community.

So... unless you're trying to tell me that that guy in the video, his neighbors, BBC, Daily Mail and several others press groups are part of a crazy mass conspiracy to mine the credibility of US account on bin Laden's death... I guess you are absolutely wrong.

[cpwm17]

32. Do you have a link for your claim that the man in the video is not Osama?

[ocpagu]

33. I've already posted three links about it.

Look again at the message.

[cpwm17]

34. An anonymous person on the internet making a claim

doesn't constitute evidence of anything. Where're the pictures of this person with features remarkably like Osama?

[ocpagu]

25. Washington Post: CIA unit's wacky idea: Depict Saddam as gay

During planning for the 2003 invasion of Iraq, the CIA's Iraq Operations Group kicked around a number of ideas for discrediting Saddam Hussein in the eyes of his people.

One was to create a video purporting to show the Iraqi dictator having sex with a teenage boy, according to two former CIA officials familiar with the project.

“It would look like it was taken by a hidden camera,” said one of the former officials. “Very grainy, like it was a secret videotaping of a sex session.”

(...)

The agency actually did make a video purporting to show Osama bin Laden and his cronies sitting around a campfire swigging bottles of liquor and savoring their conquests with boys, one of the former CIA officers recalled, chuckling at the memory. The actors were drawn from “some of us darker-skinned employees,” he said.

Eventually, “things ground to a halt,” the other former officer said, because no one could come to agreement on the projects.

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/spy-talk/2010/05/cia_group_had_wacky_ideas_to_d.html


---------------------------

Yes, let's have faith in government.