As an ally, I ask this-

[BeHereNow]

Why do we even need labels for alternative sexual lives.
Isn't LOVE the bottom line?

If I introduce my friend as,
"this is so and so and her wife, so and so"
What more needs to be said?

"this is my Lesbian friend and her lesbian lover?"


Why the need for PC labels?

Isn't just, these two people are in love enough?

What am I missing here?

BHN

[William769]

1. You would think it should be enough but it's not and heres why.

"this is my Lesbian friend and her lesbian lover?" Why is it her lover & not wife? Because 43 States and our Federal Government says they cannot marry, that why (the more visibility the more we are brought into everyday life). And thats only one instance.

Time is late & I need to go to bed. I just wanted to give a quick response. Will follow up more when I am back online.

[yardwork]

2. I don't understand your question, I think. Would you really introduce somebody

as your "lesbian friend and her lesbian lover?" Really?

As a lesbian, I introduce myself and my partner by name. I don't say "we're lesbians!" As you point out, that doesn't matter.

I don't get your comment about "PC labels." Can you explain further?

[BeHereNow]

3. It was the thread by Zorra that was asking about what was acceptable- here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/11378225

And no, I would not introduce my friend that way, any more
than I would introduce my husband as "bi-sexual."
Or myself as "Straight"

Just wondering why the need to say anything!

People are people are people and so forth-
Why even bring up sexual preferences/orientations?


BHN

[yardwork]

4. It is sad that the laws and many people discriminate against gay people.

Can I tell you a little about myself? It might help illustrate why this is still a problem.

I didn't realize that I am a lesbian until I was 45 years old. Very long story, but the short version is that as a result of getting sober, good therapy, and generally putting some space between me and my repressive upbringing, I gradually learned to recognize that I have a right to make my own choices, and then I gradually learned to recognize what I want and don't want. One day I realized that I had fallen in love with a good friend, and about a week later I realized that I've been a lesbian all my life, just totally in denial about it. Doh.

Anyway, before that I was married to a man for over 20 years. He's a wonderful person and I'm glad that he's the father of my children. We all get along very well, including his current wife and my longtime partner.

When I was "straight" and married, society and all the laws were on my side. Everybody was supportive of my marriage. I lived straight privilege. As soon as I stepped out of that role and into my identity as an out lesbian, society came down on me like a ton of bricks. Suddenly I'm an abomination. Preachers rail about me every Sunday. My state is getting ready to pass a constitutional amendment saying that not only can I never, ever marry my partner, but even a civil union or legal domestic arrangement between us is unconstitutional and wrong wrong wrong (and my wanting this is destroying the very fabric of our society and dooming us all to hell etc. etc.). In my state, I can be fired from my job simply for being gay. Despite this threat, I am out at work and everywhere. You know what they say about the zealousness of late converts.

From my point of view, the only thing that has changed is that my partner is a woman instead of a man. That's it. In ever other respect I'm the same as I ever was, except that I'm more self-aware. I'm not depressed anymore. I don't sleep all the time. Instead, I'm out earning my own living, supporting myself, paying taxes to my ungrateful state, volunteering in my community, etc. I'm a model citizen - clean, sober, no arrest record, hell I just got my car inspected a month before the deadline! But none of that matters to the people who write the laws of my state and the U.S. To them I am still an abomination. They're the ones who point their fingers and holler 'lesbian" and put that label on me. Not me. I'm just plain old yardwork, truckin along.

No labels? I'd be glad to drop the labels. Tell it to the men in cars who holler " effing dykes" at my partner and me as we walk down the sidewalk.

[BeHereNow]

6. Wow- your story is almost identical to my friend Virgene.

Virgene and I met in college; she directed me and my boyfriend at the time
on a Mamet play, "The Woods."

A few years ago, we are all now in our fifties, "Hey! I'm Gay!"
She too, had been married to a man, no children though as far as I know,
but those of us who had known her all these years were like, "Yeah, and?"
I am so happy for her- she is living a wonderful life, pursuing her dreams and
has a loving wife.

I guess it is unfortunate that so many people were forced into
lives that were designed to make other people "comfortable."
My husband is such a person- and the deception nearly destroyed us a few years ago,
but I understand it now, much better than he does. He is still in denial
about himself.

I guess the bottom line for me, is that I don't like living in a country
that does not condone love, grant equal rights to all based on
a person's sex and choice of a partner.

It is mid evil.

I am so happy for you- as I am for my friend Virgene.
And I want you to have the same rights as any other person in this country.
The thought that people still drive by calling you and your loved one names
is unacceptable to me.

BHN

[yardwork]

7. Thank you! My story is not uncommon, I've learned. Lots of us in the same boat.

At the time I assumed that I must be some kind of nut not to have recognized such a fundamental aspect of my being for so many years, but since then I've met dozens of women with the same story.

I wouldn't say that I was "forced" into living the life of a straight person. The pressure was insidious. I was trying to be a good girl (like so many of us) and follow the script that was expected of me. I didn't learn to listen to my own wants and needs for many years.

I hope that things work out for your husband and your relationship. I wish you the very best. Thank you for your support and kind words.

[Vanje]

9. Amazing post, Yardwork. nt

[yardwork]

14. Thank you!

[Zorra]

12. I wish I could recommend your post.

You got it.

[yardwork]

13. Thank you.

[Neoma]

5. The only good reason is to find out if they're available or not.

Other than that, it's no one's business.

[Zorra]

11. And, that post was inspired by another post...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=221&topic_id=42420&mesg_id=42420

Well, BHN, all I can say is that if dominant religions had not long ago arbitrarily relegated the LGBT community to an "other" category, this particular conversation we are having very likely would not be necessary.

*sigh*...in a perfect world, huh?

[closeupready]

8. Why does ANYONE need excuses to love the people they love?

Why do all the 'straight' men who fool around with other men need to excuse their homosexual behavior with "situational homosexuality" or "experimentation" or "I'd had too much to drink" or "it was part of the fraternity hazing process" or "I was expressing my dominance behaviorally"?

Just face the fact that you wanted to engage in homosexual activity with this person, it satisfied a need, you may even actually love your same-sex partner, you may not, whatever, and just stop covering it up with these stupid excuses.

Long-winded way of saying, I also resent labels, but society makes it difficult to survive without being pigeon-holed.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

10. we need labels to organize. without a label for our community we could never win rights

or advocate for it.

its a way of defining a group.

when you are the majority, your ingroup isnt lacking in rights/privilege so your need to define it, is much less than mine

[Iggo]

15. "This is my friend and her girlfriend."

That's how I do it.

[Shannon1981]

16. Discrimination.

That is why. I have been out and proud for going on 17 years now. It is necessary for me to make sure that I am not dealing with homophobes when I meet new people. I don't hide for anyone, but with that, comes the responsibility of personal safety.In 0.2 seconds, I gotta "clock," if you will, if someone is homophobic, and, if so, is it simply mild distaste/discomfort, or are they the type who would wait for a chance to tie me to a fence and beat the shit out of me. That is a very real threat. I got bashed in 2004 because I misjudged an environment. My then gf was in a coma for 22 days, and I had a cracked skull. Never again. You really have to realize that if you are out and open about who you are, that often comes with a potential price, a price no one wants to pay. It is up to the individual to make sure (s)he doesn't wind up paying it.

[BeHereNow]

17. OMG...I am so sorry that violence was committed against you and your Loved One.

I am really struggling with all the hatred in the world at the moment.
It literally makes me not want to leave my house.

I've been in and out of recluse mode for some time now-
shutting my phone off, not returning email, hiding out on DU...

When I was younger, I always started my day with the thought,
"I'm going to do what ever I can today to make the world a better place."

Not so much lately- I feel overwhelmed by the stories of horrible things
that happen every day.

Maybe I need to put on blinders for a while, as it is making
me feel so hopeless and depressed.

Again, there is no sense in the violence committed against you or any one else.

It is simply unacceptable to me.

BHN

[Shannon1981]

18. You are making it better..

just by being without prejudice.You really are. We need more people like you.

The problem with violence against LGBT people is a big one. Its really to the point where your homophobe radar better be as good as your gaydar if you don't want to become the next martyr.

I've grown up a lot since 2004- just turned 31 on the 11th. I simply know better than to parade myself like I did back then, and I use a buddy system, don't go to bars with bunches of people I don't know,etc. Fine line between being out and attracting attention. I guess one day, it won't be like this...but it will be sometime before we get there.

[BeHereNow]

19. For better or worse, I guess I grew up pretty sheltered from the cruelty of people.

I grew up in a small college town in Indiana.
My dad was a professor and later a doctorate at the university,
my mother a classical pianist- I grew up in a home that regularly hosted
parties of people from all cultures and walks of life-
Openly gay couples, people of all races and just about every diversity you can imagine.

When one of my Dad's students was killed in a gay bashing in the 70's, my father
literally had to sit me down and explain why it happened.
Even then, I just could not accept that such hatred existed.
I know now, that it does.
It makes me so sorrowful to this day.

I had my first really rude awakening in my early college years-
my parents tried to raise me in a environment of tolerance although we
lived in a KKK town.

I invited a girlfriend, who was both gay and black to a supper "Club"
my family had been going to since I was a child.

You had to knock to enter-
I knocked-
the peep hole on the door opened and I heard the person, who KNEW me
greet me with a warm hello.

Suddenly, the peephole shut- seconds later, the person returned
and told me there were no tables available!

The parking lot was near empty, so THAT made NO SENSE to me!

As I prepared to knock again, my friend pulled my arm and said "Let's go"
I was confounded by the whole thing and asked her,
"Why? what is going on here?"
She simply smiled and said
"I'm not welcome here, I'm black."

My first encounter with bigotry and hate.

BHN

[Shannon1981]

20. You know, you got lucky.

It is rare that people are brought up in environments to know no hate. That is a scary situation that happened with you and your friend, but I can imagine it must be difficult to grasp when you didn't experience it until then, and don't belong to groups of people who are regularly discriminated against.

I grew up in a family of religious bigots in SC. I was sent to ex gay therapy at 12, and outed at school at 14. I've faced little overt racism (I'm black), due to the fact that, luckily, despite religious intolerance, my family is well educated, so after I was about 12 or so, we no longer lived in bad parts of town. So, to that end, I was exposed to lots of different kinds of people. But, its still South Carolina. You can be fired or evicted for being gay here.There is lots of open, blatant homophobia, and it is accepted. Gay bashing offenders regularly get off with little more than community service, or, worse, nothing. Certainly no hate crimes prosecution..on and on, you get the picture. Sometimes its the hand you are dealt in life. I guess its about how you learn to handle it and rise above it.