Friend posted this on facebook "There is no such thing as gun control"

[alp227]

If you are for gun control, then you are not against guns, because the guns will be needed to disarm people. So it’s not that you are anti-gun. You’ll need the police’s guns to take away other people’s guns. So you’re very Pro-Gun, you just believe that only the Government (which is, of course, so reliable, honest, moral and virtuous…) should be allowed to have guns. There is no such thing as gun control. There is only centralizing gun ownership in the hands of a small, political elite and their minions.

This is a quote from Canadian libertarian commentator Stefan Molyneux.

Of course this is a misrepresentation argument claiming that either one supports an absolute citizen's right to own a gun or no citizens allowed to own guns at all.

[zbdent]

1. If there's no such thing as "gun control" ...

then what are they afraid of?

I guess that's like the mythical "Death Panels", and the oft-named (but not actually) "Obamacare", the Tooth Fairy, "God", etc. ...

[Warpy]

2. It's the light switch mentality at work

it's either on or off, all one thing or all another, with no grey areas ever admitted to.

[Bjorn Against]

3. The person who wrote that clearly does not understand what many of us want

I am for gun control, but in most circumstances I would not be in favor of cops going door to door and taking guns by force as I believe that would result in far more deaths than it would save. What I do believe should be done is that the manufacture of new guns should be banned and some sort of gun buyback program should be put into place to allow people to voluntarily give up their guns. Those who choose not to give up their guns would be allowed to keep them as long as they did not commit any criminal acts. It is not a perfect system but I have no doubt it would reduce the number of gun deaths substantially. The person who made that post is absolutely clueless as to what gun control really is, very few people advocate taking all guns away by force, that position is total right-wing fantasy.

[socialindependocrat]

4. One part raises a whole lot of questions...

"manufacture of new guns should be banned "

Where do we begin....

Just never gonna happen

I'm glad you clarified what you really want.

[Bjorn Against]

9. Not saying I think it will happen anytime soon, I do think that should be our goal however

If I could get rid of every last gun on Earth I would, I recognize that is not realistic so I just want to get rid of as many as we possibly can. That is my position and I don't see any reason to be ashamed of it.

[alp227]

5. OK, you're not for "taking all guns away by force" but want to ban new manufacturing of guns?

Won't the black market just fill in the missing manufacturers then?

[Bjorn Against]

8. There would be a black market but it would be very underground

Guns are not the same thing as drugs, guns need to be manufactured and it is not easy for a person to make a gun in their garage. Very few people would associate with arms dealers, so while there would be no way to stop the black market entirely it could be driven so deep underground that most people would never have contact with it.

[gejohnston]

10. actually, it is fairly easy

a lot easier than you think

[MicaelS]

13. Rubbish, it is very easy to make a gun...

If you have access to machine tools like a lathe and drill press. Hell, if you have one of the new small 3D CNC mills people are buying these days, it's even easier.

And the instructions are already out there.

I suggest you Google "how to make your own guns" and click on the 5th link.

[Bjorn Against]

20. Most people don't have those tools

It may be possible for a person to buy the tools needed to make a gun, but if it were a felony to do so most people are not going to take the risk of buying the tools to make a gun themselves. We won't stop everyone but we can reduce the number of guns.

[gejohnston]

21. Biker gangs in Australia have been busted for

making STEN and Owen sub machineguns for themselves and to sell to drug dealers. If you have the tools of a 1940s bicycle shop, you can make a STEN. Thousands were made Denmark, Poland, and France under the SS nose. Israel made crude SMGs out of common materials under the British's nose. Open bolt full autos are easier to make than a semi auto.

The Yakusa gets a lot of their guns from illegal shade tree gunsmiths in Cebu and Thailand, which has a tradition similar to the tribal areas in Pakistan. When I was in Japan, there a couple of US Army folks from Tori Station buying the guns for twenty bucks in the Philippines and Thailand, smuggling them into Japan and selling them to the Yakusa for a couple of grand. Pretty good gig until Army CID and Japanese police caught them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avenger_submachine_gun

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sten_submachine_gun

[Bjorn Against]

23. Banning the manufacture of guns will reduce the number of guns. Period.

Sorry but the fear of Australian biker gangs is not going to make me favor the legal manufacture of more deadly weapons.

[gejohnston]

24. you missed the point

I have no fear of Australian biker gangs either. The problem isn't the number of guns, but who has them. If you seriously think that the murder rate or drop or anything beautiful like that without addressing the real issues like wealth inequality etc. the evidence doesn't support it. Calling it naive would be a colossal understatement.

[Bjorn Against]

25. I have been very vocal about addressing wealth inequality

I can say plenty about wealth inequality on other threads however without getting distracted from the issue that this thread is about and that issue is guns. If it is more difficult for people to get their hands on a gun they are far less likely to shoot someone with a gun, if you don't understand that then you are the one who is naive.

[gejohnston]

27. if you look around the world

the correlation between wealth inequality and violence is stronger than anything to do with guns. The countries with higher murder rates than the US have larger wealth inequality and very strict gun laws, far stricter than the US or Europe. The issue is violence and murder, the weapon used is of no consequence. Mexico, Brazil, Russia, Bermuda, and Jamaica comes to mind.

[Starboard Tack]

6. Classic RW bullshit.

First of all, there will never be any door-to-door gun confiscation. That is NRA propaganda.
Gun control is about limiting the numbers and types of weapons available, and where they may be used, not eliminating all guns.

[AtheistCrusader]

7. Molyneux is an anarchist.

And a 'militant' atheist.

I don't think the 'right wing' lets him play in their sandbox either.
Something about being jesus freak authoritarians.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

12. is he an anarchist or a liberatarian? are the two mutually exclusive?

[AtheistCrusader]

14. Anarchists are a subset of Libertarians, to a degree.

And even those are divided into left/right subgroups. With the anarcho-capitalists and the anarcho-communists refusing to acknowledge the existence of each other.

Molyneux is constantly going on about a stateless society and stuff. He self-identifies as a voluntaryist and anarchist.

[holdencaufield]

22. Anarchists are Libertarians ...

... with tattoos

(note to jury -- this is a joke)

[Starboard Tack]

29. Oh boy, even worse.

[AtheistCrusader]

30. I blame Canada

[GreenStormCloud]

11. There are those here on DU that advocate complete civilian disarmament.

There is even one who thinks that guns can be uninvented and made to dissappear from the Earth.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

15. link to that last assertion, please

that must be a thing of beauty to behold . . .

[GreenStormCloud]

17. Here you go:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022141214

[Tuesday Afternoon]

18. oh dear -

who knew there are only guns in America . . .

that will solve the world wide issue will it not.

[GreenStormCloud]

28. Read further down in the thread.

He transitions from national to global. And he wants the death penalty for any firearms crime.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

31. please. don't make me. enough. thanks, though for the link.

[Eleanors38]

19. Yes, Sorcerer's Apprentice meets H. P. Lovecraft. nt

[xoom]

16. You have got to be kidding?